Governors Order Recruiters to be Armed

[Big Sarge]

This is an interesting twist with a few governors exercising their control over the National Guard.

 

"Governors in several states ordered National Guardsmen to be armed in the wake of an attack on two military facilities in Tennessee, and Florida Gov. Rick Scott went a step further Saturday by immediately relocated recruiters to armories.........As governor, Scott oversees the Florida National Guard and can act without federal involvement. He ordered officers to make sure all full-time members of the guard are armed "in the interest of immediately securing Florida National Guardsmen who are being targeted by ISIS."

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MILITARY_SECURITY_FLORIDA_RECRUITERS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-07-18-14-43-54

 

Not everything will be sugar and spice. On the active duty side:

 

"Navy officials confirmed a separate incident outside Atlanta, where a recruiter accidently shot himself in the leg with his personal .45-caliber pistol while discussing the Tennessee shootings with one of his recruits. Officials said he showed the sailor the unloaded gun, then reloaded it and inadvertently discharged it as he was putting it back in his holster."

[Presidio]

This makes my day !

[Sedalia Dave]

This is an interesting twist with a few governors exercising their control over the National Guard.

 

"Governors in several states ordered National Guardsmen to be armed in the wake of an attack on two military facilities in Tennessee, and Florida Gov. Rick Scott went a step further Saturday by immediately relocated recruiters to armories.........As governor, Scott oversees the Florida National Guard and can act without federal involvement. He ordered officers to make sure all full-time members of the guard are armed "in the interest of immediately securing Florida National Guardsmen who are being targeted by ISIS." :) :)

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MILITARY_SECURITY_FLORIDA_RECRUITERS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-07-18-14-43-54

 

[/i]

[Sedalia Dave]

 

Not everything will be sugar and spice. On the active duty side:

 

"Navy officials confirmed a separate incident outside Atlanta, where a recruiter accidently shot himself in the leg with his personal .45-caliber pistol while discussing the Tennessee shootings with one of his recruits. Officials said he showed the sailor the unloaded gun, then reloaded it and inadvertently discharged it as he was putting it back in his holster."

Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot to make the anti-gunners point for them.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Literally

[Trailrider #896]

I believe the governor of Louisiana did the same thing. I talked with my congressman today about lifting the restrictions on the Regular armed forces. Sadly, the fifth victim, a sailor, passed away this morning. The ironically sad thing is these troops were safer in Iraq and Afghanistan than in the CONUS! It is beginning to appear that the perp was allegedly a "normal" individual until he returned from the Mideast. Apparently, for whatever reason, he was allegedly radicalized over there.

 

Ride careful, Pards!

Your obdt servant,

[Boon Doggle]

Add Texas to the list: http://kxan.com/2015/07/18/abbott-orders-national-guard-to-carry-guns-on-base/

 

I aslo believe the Governor of Oklahoma is doing the same.

[Chili Ron]

Howdy

 

An armed society is a polite society.

--somebody, I forget.....

 

Best

CR

ps thanks pards. I appreciate it.

Pretty soon the computers will probably do that for us too....

[guitar_slinger]

I It is beginning to appear that the perp was allegedly a "normal" individual until he returned from the Mideast. Apparently, for whatever reason, he was allegedly radicalized over there.

 

Ride careful, Pards!

Your obdt servant,

Th at is the yarn being spun. I don't believe it. Yes, he probably received formal training and instructions while over there. I don't believe an otherwise normal American kid is going to spend 7 months in Jordan and all of a sudden become a radical muslim... I believe he was what he was before he went there, just received the necessary training to work it out over there and brought it here.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Howdy

 

An armed society is a polite society.

--somebody, I forget.....

 

Best

CR

Robert Heinlein I believe - a Sci-Fi writer.

[Lazarus Longshot, SASS #44254 Life]

Robert Heinlein I believe - a Sci-Fi writer.

Yep.

 

Laz

[Rye Miles #13621]

Good time to contact your reps and tell them to reverse this stupid law!

[Matthew Duncan]

About time the states step up and exercise their authority. When how long until the Feds provide a "grant" to the states to get them back in line?

[Clay Mosby]

Unfortunately the idiots here are just as likely to create sanctuaries for the radicals and make sure their target rich environments are gun free.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Okay here's my opinion on arming servicemen, for what it's worth.

 

1. I've heard people complain about the servicemen have been disarmed. This is incorrect. Troops in the US have not been armed since the 1800s. The Posse Comitatus Act pretty much ensured they would not be as a matter of routine.

 

2. The handgun training in the armed forces is minimal except for special operations personnel. And the training for them is much different than from law enforcement. Having hundreds and hundreds of them armed may not be a great idea. People are freaking out about Jade Helm as it is, and those troops have blanks.

 

3. I think the most practical solution is to increase the numbers of military police/security troops, who do have theproper tactical training, and have them in place in the areas most likely to be targeted, both on and off military posts.

 

4. And, once again, even in a gun friendly state like Tennessee, no civilian grabbed their ccw and tried to take action. Maybe need more armed civilians. Cops and troops are not enough.

 

5. If you don't agree, that's okay. The government never takes my suggestions anyway.

[Sedalia Dave]

Yep UB is right.

 

Arming folks that haven't had any firearms training is a recipe for disaster.

 

Only folks that receive firearms training in the Navy are security personnel, Sea Bees and Special Forces.

 

The Sea Bees get a course in basic infantry as part of their boot camp training plus follow on training through out their career.

 

The rest of us might have gotten the chance to fire a .22 cal 1911 in boot camp depending on which one you attended.

[Big Sarge]

I was always required to shoot weapons qual with my M9. I think it varies with your duty position and unit. As I understand, AGR (full time National Guard) in the affected states will be carrying M9 pistols in Condition 4. That is no round in chamber and no magazine in weapon.

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

_{Sooner or later, we have to realize that not all attacks are preventable. The Lone Wolf shooter, not actively involved in some network of criminals, is unlikely to be stopped until after he starts shooting.}

 

_{"Arming" soldiers with unloaded pistols might make some folks feel more secure, but it's still an empty gun - useless, at least initially.}

 

_{I suppose the military is not crazy about restricted access to recruitment locations -cuts down on the flow of passers -by who might otherwise be induced to enter.}

 

_{I defer to UB on the primary issues; he's got experience in military and police training and execution.}

 

_LL

[Bad Jeemes Kelly]

_{Sooner or later, we have to realize that not all attacks are preventable. The Lone Wolf shooter, not actively involved in some network of criminals, is unlikely to be stopped until after he starts shooting.}

 

That's the main thing. This is the safest time in American history - same for Europe. People need to get a grip and realize murder isn't going to be eliminated - it has been around as long as their have been humans. People feel like they are in danger because they lack perspective and they are being intentionally mislead, for profit, by the 24-hour news industry.

 

Fact is, Muslim terrorists included, you are safer in America today than you have ever been in your life and a lot safer than your parents and grandparents ever were. You ever read any old newspapers? In my great grandparents day, around where I'm from, the newspaper was filled with shootings over whiskey, family feuds, and the legacy of the civil war, just about every day. The big difference is, those paper's were local and people understood the context - today we have a news industry that reports crimes in Australia or China like they happened in your town, and goes out of its way to avoid even saying where they happened.

 

As far as arming the troops - they'd be no worse with guns, and probably better, than civilians with CCW permits. Most of them have spent plenty of time carrying a loaded gun, 24/7, in Iraq and Afghanistan. At least arming them is better than the active duty military leadership's cowardly response of ordering them not to wear uniforms. I was ordered not to wear a uniform when coming home on R&R leave from Afghanistan, during my last deployment; it struck me as cowardly then and it does now. I don't know if I'm the only one who cared, but it really made me angry and still does.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I disagree with NOT arming military personnel. Training? Big deal, 12 hour training course should be fine. How much training do you need to pull the weapon and defend yourself! The whole point of this is to STOP armed attacks. The "bad guys" just may not be so brave if they know anywhere the military is they are armed! It's no different than in society when CCL holders are defending themselves. Let's stop this nonsense of "GUN FREE MILITARY ZONES" that invite armed crazy intruders! In fact ALL GUN FREE ZONES should be eliminated!

Rye

[Tyrel Cody]

I disagree with NOT arming military personnel. Training? Big deal, 12 hour training course should be fine. How much training do you need to pull the weapon and defend yourself! The whole point of this is to STOP armed attacks. The "bad guys" just may not be so brave if they know anywhere the military is they are armed! It's no different than in society when CCL holders are defending themselves. Let's stop this nonsense of "GUN FREE MILITARY ZONES" that invite armed crazy intruders! In fact ALL GUN FREE ZONES should be eliminated!

Rye

+1000000000000000000000000

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

I disagree with NOT arming military personnel. Training? Big deal, 12 hour training course should be fine. How much training do you need to pull the weapon and defend yourself! The whole point of this is to STOP armed attacks. The "bad guys" just may not be so brave if they know anywhere the military is they are armed! It's no different than in society when CCL holders are defending themselves. Let's stop this nonsense of "GUN FREE MILITARY ZONES" that invite armed crazy intruders! In fact ALL GUN FREE ZONES should be eliminated!

Rye

 

I don't know that it is that clear-cut.

 

Our CCW classes are more than 12 hours, but I don't think that training qualifies you to safely and effectively engage an armed target in a public place with satisfactory results. For those of us with neither combat experience nor police experience, handling ourselves properly in a gun fight in a mall might be a bit beyond our skill set. Don't get me wrong; given the choice, I'd rather be armed than unarmed. But in terms of arming the military, the outcomes could be less heroic than anticipated, with more tragedy mixed in. And then there is that sticky issue of folks being uncomfortable with an armed military presence in civilian settings.

 

Your deterrence observation has some validity. Whenever I see pics of Israeli soldiers with their autos slung over their shoulders in public places, I can't help but think that you have to be crazy to try shooting someone with so many heavily armed soldiers in the street. But then again, it IS crazies that we are dealing with, and more targets may make them bolder.

 

Immediately after 9/11, the MA State Police began walking the terminals at Logan Airport, armed conspicuously with AR15s. There was a DEFINATE deterrent effect. I don't know how much training they actually had, but they looked like they knew what they were doing.

 

LL

[Rye Miles #13621]

 

I don't know that it is that clear-cut.

 

Our CCW classes are more than 12 hours, but I don't think that training qualifies you to safely and effectively engage an armed target in a public place with satisfactory results. For those of us with neither combat experience nor police experience, handling ourselves properly in a gun fight in a mall might be a bit beyond our skill set. Don't get me wrong; given the choice, I'd rather be armed than unarmed. But in terms of arming the military, the outcomes could be less heroic than anticipated, with more tragedy mixed in. And then there is that sticky issue of folks being uncomfortable with an armed military presence in civilian settings.

 

Your deterrence observation has some validity. Whenever I see pics of Israeli soldiers with their autos slung over their shoulders in public places, I can't help but think that you have to be crazy to try shooting someone with so many heavily armed soldiers in the street. But then again, it IS crazies that we are dealing with, and more targets may make them bolder.

 

Immediately after 9/11, the MA State Police began walking the terminals at Logan Airport, armed conspicuously with AR15s. There was a DEFINATE deterrent effect. I don't know how much training they actually had, but they looked like they knew what they were doing.

 

LL

Gimme a break! You're thinking too hard!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

CCW handgun carrier WITHOUT extensive/on-going training, going up against a AK-47, is committing suicide.

OLG

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

CCW handgun carrier WITHOUT extensive/on-going training, going up against a AK-47, is committing suicide.

OLG

Still beats being unarmed when it all hits the fan. A handful of recruiting documents isn't much of a deterent.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Still beats being unarmed when it all hits the fan. A handful of recruiting documents isn't much of a deterent.

As a stay where you are deterrent-YES, any gun is better than none.

OLG

[Widder, SASS #59054]

OPTIONS:

 

1. my adversary has a weapon (any kind) and I have a desk to hide behind

 

2. my adversary has a weapon and I have a desk to get behind with a firearm to assist my security. It doesn't guarantee my security, but it is a good assistance in many instances, especially if I have other assistances helping out.

 

You fellers can rationalize all you want with statistics, history, etc..... But I think I deserve to choose my options whatever the outcome might incur.

 

I CHOOSE #2.

 

 

..........Widder

[Rye Miles #13621]

Still beats being unarmed when it all hits the fan. A handful of recruiting documents isn't much of a deterent.

+100000000000000000000000

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

OPTIONS:

 

1. my adversary has a weapon (any kind) and I have a desk to hide behind

 

2. my adversary has a weapon and I have a desk to get behind with a firearm to assist my security. It doesn't guarantee my security, but it is a good assistance in many instances, especially if I have other assistances helping out.

 

You fellers can rationalize all you want with statistics, history, etc..... But I think I deserve to choose my options whatever the outcome might incur.

 

I CHOOSE #2.

 

 

..........Widder

Me too-

OLG

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

In most cases the instinct of survival would kick in.

Without a weapon your choices are quite limited.

A small pocket gun against an armed individual in

body armor and a semi auto weapon is not equal,

but there is that small chance that I can cause some

reflection on his actions. A gun free sign is probably

not going to get you much help.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Okay lets say we arm all the recruiters. Probably not all that hard to do. What about all the other thousands of military personnel moving about in society? Do we have all of them under arms or do we prohibit them from wearing their uniforms off post? Remember British Army Corporal Lee Rigby? He was not even in uniform. Just walking down the street. What about soldiers leaving airports? Using public transportation? At a football game?

The Marines and sailor killed at the reserve center were simply standing outside. Should we require them to stay behind closed doors?

The call to arm all military personnel everywhere is a (perhaps understandable) knee jerk reaction but simply not practical.

I think at the end of the day it would create more problems that it would solve.

Terror attacks will continue and most probably increase. There will be casualties.

I don't have an answer that will satisfy anybody, including myself.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Okay lets say we arm all the recruiters. Probably not all that hard to do. What about all the other thousands of military personnel moving about in society? Do we have all of them under arms or do we prohibit them from wearing their uniforms off post? Remember British Army Corporal Lee Rigby? He was not even in uniform. Just walking down the street. What about soldiers leaving airports? Using public transportation? At a football game?

The Marines and sailor killed at the reserve center were simply standing outside. Should we require them to stay behind closed doors?

The call to arm all military personnel everywhere is a (perhaps understandable) knee jerk reaction but simply not practical.

I think at the end of the day it would create more problems that it would solve.

Terror attacks will continue and most probably increase. There will be casualties.

I don't have an answer that will satisfy anybody, including myself.

 

Bob,

 

I would say NONE of us have the answer that would be best. Heck, even a highly armed Secret Service can't protect the Prez when an idiot is determined to do harm.

 

I will still carry when I'm about in public but just as important..... I will still try to BE VIGILANT of my surroundings and people.

 

Have a good day.

 

 

..........Widder

[Rye Miles #13621]

Okay lets say we arm all the recruiters. Probably not all that hard to do. What about all the other thousands of military personnel moving about in society? Do we have all of them under arms or do we prohibit them from wearing their uniforms off post? Remember British Army Corporal Lee Rigby? He was not even in uniform. Just walking down the street. What about soldiers leaving airports? Using public transportation? At a football game?

The Marines and sailor killed at the reserve center were simply standing outside. Should we require them to stay behind closed doors?

The call to arm all military personnel everywhere is a (perhaps understandable) knee jerk reaction but simply not practical.

I think at the end of the day it would create more problems that it would solve.

Terror attacks will continue and most probably increase. There will be casualties.

I don't have an answer that will satisfy anybody, including myself.

I think maybe we should start at recruiting centers and military bases, you know inside where the personnel are working, let them carry just like us regular citizens out here. That way they're at least protected somewhat. If ALL GUN FREE ZONES were eliminated then military personnel can carry everywhere just like everyone else!

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

I have mixed feelings on this...

 

Not all that long ago I was sitting down eating at an overseas location, and an AF TSGT walked by with her pistol on fire. When I politely informed her, she replied with "if you knew where I worked, you'd know why it was on fire."

 

Which is fine, as an M-9 is as safe as a glock with the "decocker" on fire.

 

What gave me pause, was the sense of impending danger, and indignant attitude she had. Being familiar with her AO, I saw no reason for her to be concerned. There were about 50 more AF security dudes on their compound, inside the wire near the perimeter, than there needed to be to defend it, if the perimeter was breached, and they had more .50 cals set up than your average armored battalion.

 

But she still felt she had to be ready, and that she had to put me in my place for questioning the state of her weapon at dinner.

 

Now take that frame of mind, from an "experienced" airman, and stick it in a recruiting office. Half the people that walk into those places look like criminals, I know... I was one once.

 

And that frame of mind has to decide how to react...

 

Training aside... We have to many people in uniform that are just itching to shoot someone, and unfortunately, they're usually not the ones with real combat training/experience.

[Rye Miles #13621]

 

 

Training aside... We have to many people in uniform that are just itching to shoot someone, and unfortunately, they're usually not the ones with real combat training/experience.

 

I couldn't disagree with you more! All the combat veterans and active duty members I know are rational, clear thinking human beings that I would trust with my life! I know none that are "Itching to shoot someone'!! Besides that, they should ALL have the right to defend themselves especially since they've become a target for people that are "itching to shoot them'!!