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Hard Cash

.45 Cowboy Special Brass

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Yes, there are many number of ways to skin this cat. I had the cutter, the 45 Colt set and just added the 45ACP kit for less than $6. Oh yea, the lathe too. If I were going to do more than a few, I'd investigate and invest in more productive tools. Every reloading company make trim tools. It's kind of like race cars, how fast you want to go depends how much you're willing to spend.

 

Do you think the Lee Delux power trimmer would work on a Dillon 550? Cutting 45 Colt down to 45 Cowboy is going to make a lot of chips.

Man, I dunno....I'm gonna use an old single stage press I use for resizing my cast bullets, and leave my progressive alone lol.

 

BD

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Man, I dunno....I'm gonna use an old single stage press I use for resizing my cast bullets, and leave my progressive alone lol.

 

BD

 

I gave my Lyman single stage press to my son years ago. All I have is a 450 and 550.

 

If the majority of the chips fell into the case, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. A person could set up a die block with sizer, expander and trim tool in number 3 station. Set the on switch on a small cord drill to stay on and just feed, pull and turn.

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I use to make and load a round I called the .45 CAS. Large PITA shortening .45 Colt cases as a LOT of material had to be removed. Then the .45 Cowboy Special came out. Not as space efficient as the .45 CAS BUT a huge time saver. The first photo shows the .45 CAS on the left, the .45 Cowboy Special in the center and the .45 Colt on the right. The bottom photo shows the old Lyman case trimmer I used to shorten the cases. The videos posted by a couple of pards are really interesting. However, I noticed that each case takes anywhere from 2 to 3 minutes to make. That is about what it took me to shorten rounds in the Lyman case trimmer. That is a LOT of hours to produce a thousand cases. (The minimum amount I load for handgun ammo.) It's funny, when I was younger and working for a living I spent a lot of my "free" time making cases. For some reason now that I am retired and all my time is "free" time I don't like wasting it. For a small boutique business or for an individual shooter 100,000 cases may be a lot. Howerver, it is nothing to case manufacturers that measure output in the millions of cases. I still have about 1,500 .45 Cowboy Special cases and they are great for BP so you don't have to add any filler. However, for smokeless all you have to do is add 2 or 3 tenths of a grain of Trailboss over a .45 CS load in a .45 Colt case and you get the same performance without all the labor of shortening cases. Even for BP I have a press set up so that it automatically adds grits to the .45 Colt cases. That way I only need one kind of ammo for my rifles and revolvers. Again, getting lazy in my old age so whenever possible I like to keep the ammo logistics as simple as possible.

 

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If the supply of Cowboy Special cases dries up and I outlive the approx. 2000 I have now, I will round up some .45 Schofield cases and load them. The rim diameter has a slightly larger diameter, but will work fine in my revs.

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I have been shooting the Cowboy Specials in my NM Vaqueros for 6 or 7 years. Bought all my original brass from AJ and then bought some more from Miss Cubbie. I shoot only 160gr in front of a full case of BP.....it is not a wimp load! Sure it is less recoils than the full length brass, but it still makes lots of smoke and does better than lots of .38's knocking down steel. I use normal .45's in my 73's, full cases of BP & 200 grainers.

 

What a mess this has turned out to be. Luckily I have about 3,000+ pieces of Cowboy Special brass. Probably last me the rest of my life as there is very little case mortality due to slitting and I don't lose it either.

I'm curious as to why you would choose to load the c45s cases with BP as opposed to Schofield. Is it that much less of a recoil? I load full cases of 45 Colt and I'm not a giant by any means. I have been told that the Schofield cases are a good way to go if I want to lessen recoil and still use BP. I've never had anyone that shoots BP tell me to use these cases. I've not used either, so whatever information you can provide me based on your experience would be very helpful. Thanks

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If the supply of Cowboy Special cases dries up and I outlive the approx. 2000 I have now, I will round up some .45 Schofield cases and load them. The rim diameter has a slightly larger diameter, but will work fine in my revs.

The Schofield case has a larger rim OD, than does the .45 Colt.

That was one of the original issues faced when Cavalry tried using the Schofield cartridge in a Colt SAA.

Pretty sure it will give issues in .45 Colt chambered rifles also.

OLG

 

Edited, so Deadwood Slim could sleep at 'nite'- ^_^

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That was one of the original issues faced when Calvary tried using the Schofield cartridge in a Colt SAA.

OLG

That's Cavalry. Calvary is a spot in the middle east. My goodness Lumpy, what would John Wayne say? :P

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I'm curious as to why you would choose to load the c45s cases with BP as opposed to Schofield. Is it that much less of a recoil? I load full cases of 45 Colt and I'm not a giant by any means. I have been told that the Schofield cases are a good way to go if I want to lessen recoil and still use BP. I've never had anyone that shoots BP tell me to use these cases. I've not used either, so whatever information you can provide me based on your experience would be very helpful. Thanks

IMHO the main advantage with the CS cases is that I use regular .45 Colt dies for everything except bullet seating where I use a .45 Auto seater. I like the CS because of the lighter recoil, still makes lots of smoke and uses 1/2 the powder of the regular .45 Colt. I fill the case almost full and seat the 160 gr bullet to give a small amount of compression. Been shooting this for 7 or 8 years (maybe more) and works great in my Ruger NM Vaqueros. I use regular .45 Colts in my 73 rifle.

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The Schofield case has a larger rim OD, than does the .45 Colt.

That was one of the original issues faced when Calvary tried using the Schofield cartridge in a Colt SAA.

Pretty sure it will give issues in .45 Colt chambered rifles also.

OLG

I have used the Schofield cases in my NM Vaqueros before and have had no problems. I was using them when AJ came out with his CS. I still have a few squirreled away just in case.

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Going to be out your way in October, hope I can get the trip scheduled so I can shoot with you again.

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I have used the Schofield cases in my NM Vaqueros before and have had no problems. I was using them when AJ came out with his CS. I still have a few squirreled away just in case.

Yep, me too...used Schofield brass in my 45 NM Vaqueros for 2 to 3 years, and my 1858 Remmies with conversion cylinders.

 

BD

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The Schofield case has a larger rim OD, than does the .45 Colt.

That was one of the original issues faced when Cavalry tried using the Schofield cartridge in a Colt SAA.

Pretty sure it will give issues in .45 Colt chambered rifles also.

OLG

 

Edited, so Deadwood Slim could sleep at 'nite'- ^_^

I ran Schofields in my 73 until I switched to 44-40. Run them in my Marlin all the time. I had one Ruger out of 6 that needed to have the ratchet boss relieved a touch so they would chamber.

 

CR

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There are five advantages to the 45 Cowboy case.

 

1) You can actually see a small load of fast burning powder in the bottom of the case. A double charge is apparent. A small load in a 45 Colt case is hard to see and a double charge is difficult to spot.

 

2) The 45 Cowboy case is more efficient at burning fast powders. I can get a clean burn with 5g in 45 Cowboy case where it takes 7g in 45 Colt case.

 

3) You can load 45 Cowboy to the proper level with black or subs and have plenty of smoke and power without the hellfire and thunder of a full charge in 45 Colt case. You can load down 45 Colt by adding filler but the 45 Cowboy can produce the sam range without filler.

 

4) I like how the ejector rod pushes the 45 Cowboy case clear of the cylinder.

 

5) I have carrier my Marlin 1894 modified to shoot the 45 Cowboy. I can just switch carriers and go back to 45 Colt.

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Though a less popular concept now days, playing historical cowboy can also come into play with the C45S IF we kind of squint a bit! The C45S actually can be loaded very close to that original rifle/pistol combo cartridge, the .44 Henry and this buffalo killer was no wimp by any means. You would be amazed what the Henry rifle could accomplish in the hands of a good shooter like uhhh Kevin Costner! :wacko:

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I don't really care to run 45 cal. ammo in CAS, as it's a lot more expensive to load, let alone purchase loaded ammo. Lost brass gets expensive if used in Rifles. 38 spl. brass is cheap, and once fired range brass is easy to obtain. Loading for 10 cents per round, (or less), is easily accomplished.

 

I have a Marlin Cowboy Limited in 45 LC, but it's used for a back-up only, and that's only been needed for one match in 6 years.

 

I am, working on a simple and easy way to create C45S cases, for use if availability stays difficult, but that is simply a project that I want to pursue, for the benefit of pard's everywhere. Not something that I will actually use myself, in all probability.

 

RBK

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I don't really care to run 45 cal. ammo in CAS, as it's a lot more expensive to load, let alone purchase loaded ammo. Lost brass gets expensive if used in Rifles. 38 spl. brass is cheap, and once fired range brass is easy to obtain. Loading for 10 cents per round, (or less), is easily accomplished.

 

RBK

True. But 32/20, 38/40, 44/40, and above all 45 Colt says cowboy and the west.

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I fired 10 rounds of my 45 Cowboy made from 45 Colt cases that had splits at mouth. One split most of the way down. Another had a couple of cracks at the mouth. I expected this to happen. Probably if a person is going to this much effort, it would be best to use new or once fired cases.

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Going to be out your way in October, hope I can get the trip scheduled so I can shoot with you again.

Would really like that- ;)

HDC shoots the 3rd Sunday, that's the 18th of Oct.

OLG

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I fired 10 rounds of my 45 Cowboy made from 45 Colt cases that had splits at mouth. One split most of the way down. Another had a couple of cracks at the mouth. I expected this to happen. Probably if a person is going to this much effort, it would be best to use new or once fired cases.

You need to anneal them. Working brass that much by cutting and trimming, work hardens the mouth of the case.

 

I built a motorized case annealer to anneal lots of cases fast!

 

http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/brass-annealing-machine.html

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You need to anneal them. Working brass that much by cutting and trimming, work hardens the mouth of the case.

 

I built a motorized case annealer to anneal lots of cases fast!

 

http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/brass-annealing-machine.html

Neat machine!

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You need to anneal them. Working brass that much by cutting and trimming, work hardens the mouth of the case.

 

I built a motorized case annealer to anneal lots of cases fast!

 

http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/brass-annealing-machine.html

It would probably helped to anneal them before cutting them back. But I was more interested in the process than making long-life cases out of them. These cases are a batch I bought 40 years ago and reloaded umpteen times and annealed at least a couple. The one that split most of the way down probably had a fault line in it anyway. They are on their 8.9 life.

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Cut'n and trimming does not work harden the case.

Sizing and crimp'n does. ;)

OLG

 

This is very true. All the more reason to apply a heavy taper crimp on C45S loads, like is done on 45ACP loads. Eliminating the roll crimp, (which is not needed on that particular pound), will increase case life a great deal. Be very careful on belling the brass too. Very little is needed, and a heavy bell will work harden your brass quickly.

 

RBK

 

Edited to state that taper crimping is best and desirable in pistol ammo. For tubular mags in rifles, a roll crimp MAY be necessary, or might not. RBK

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Taper crimp is only need'd on semi-auto handguns, when the case mouth headspaces in the chamber(9mm, .45acp etc).

A roll-crimp is SOP on revolver ammo. When done 'rite', a roll-crimp has far more 'hold' than taper does. This will lead to a more complete powder burn also when 'lite' powder charges are used.

YMMV,

OLG

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Taper crimp is only need'd on semi-auto handguns, when the case mouth headspaces in the chamber(9mm, .45acp etc).

A roll-crimp is SOP on revolver ammo. When done 'rite', a roll-crimp has far more 'hold' than taper does. This will lead to a more complete powder burn also when 'lite' powder charges are used.

YMMV,

OLG

+1

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Taper crimp is only need'd on semi-auto handguns, when the case mouth headspaces in the chamber(9mm, .45acp etc).

A roll-crimp is SOP on revolver ammo. When done 'rite', a roll-crimp has far more 'hold' than taper does. This will lead to a more complete powder burn also when 'lite' powder charges are used.

YMMV,

OLG

 

If fast Powders are used, like in the ACP round, then your SOP is meaningless. If the bullets don't move in an auto loader, neither will they in a revolver. I do agree that the norm is a roll crimp on MOST pistol ammo, but on some ammo, it really isn't necessary, and will absolutely extend case life on hard to get brass. I was loading pistol ammo possibly before you were born, and know of what I speak.

 

RBK

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If fast Powders are used, like in the ACP round, then your SOP is meaningless. If the bullets don't move in an auto loader, neither will they in a revolver. I do agree that the norm is a roll crimp on MOST pistol ammo, but on some ammo, it really isn't necessary, and will absolutely extend case life on hard to get brass. I was loading pistol ammo possibly before you were born, and know of what I speak.

 

RBK

You do know that's not a recent picture of Lumpy, right?:)

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I was loading pistol ammo possibly before you were born, and know of what I speak.

 

RBK

:rolleyes: OMG, Seriously-You really think that means a bloody thing? <_<

There's a big difference from do'n it longer, and do'n it right. :lol::lol:

I only started reloading in 1965-So I guess that I know next to nut'n then ^_^

Fact-NO taper crimp will hold a lead handgun bullet, like a roll crimp does :excl: It's simple mechanics ;)

A roll-crimp 'bites' the case mouth into the projectile like a collar-A taper crimp just squeezes the lead bullet's walls-Lead will compress easily.

Carry on,

OLG

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Lumpy, no one has said that you don't know what you are doing, like you have said about me. I have been involved with the shooting sports all my life, and have loaded literally hundreds of thousands of cartridges over the years. I am locally well known and respected for my knowledge of reloading. I have been at it for over 62 years, and long ago learned how to do it correctly.

 

Of the subject at hand, light loaded C45S cartridges with taper crimps will indeed perform quite well, if loaded with very fast powders like Bullseye or 231, just as 45ACP cartridges will. Like it or not, that is a fact. We do not have to agree on this, so we shall agree to disagree. No further discussion is necessary, and no name calling is necessary. It's called "Difference of opinion"

 

RBK

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"no name calling is necessary" Tell me then. Just what name did I use? :blink:

What happens with BP in that round w/taper crimp? Be interesting to find out.

Has Unique been tried?

BTW-Bullseye is way 'faster'(#10)than 231/HP38(#38()on the powder burn rate charts. ;) Really don't see how you can refer to'em as be'n in the same 'class'.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp

Facts-Are stubborn things, and it's a fact that a proper roll crimp will hold a lead bullet better than a taper ever will in a SAAMI spec. revolver case with lead bullets. The C45S has no SAAMI specs. It's what is known as a 'wildcat' round.

With those short/cut down cases, you are in a much thicker section of the case wall and a roll crimp could well buckle the case.

OLG

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Sure. Roll crimp with lead bullets for revolvers is the norm. Under heavy recoil it will hold the bullet better. With typical cowboy ammo and the accompanying light recoil I doubt taper crimping will be a problem. Smokin Gator

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