Sedalia Dave Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Widder....please make mine chocolate Kajun Rock Road seems more on topic and appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I would say yes as long as they stayed in the belt. If you drop a gun belt and the guns stay holstered they are not considered dropped. I would say yes as long as they stayed in the belt. If you drop a gun belt and the guns stay holstered they are not considered dropped. Howdy Smokestack With respect a dropped gun is a dropped gun & incurs the relevant penalty..correct me if I am wrong but where does the rules cover 'if in a holster then not considered dropped & further you have the position of the barrel when dropped. Regards 'Mohawk Seems I should have gone through ALL the posts before my comment.!!!! We had a shooter here in Aus where he took off at a gallop to the next position , unfortunately his rig hit the ground with both pistols unfired...given a match DQ ..I see this as the right call under the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Howdy Smokestack With respect a dropped gun is a dropped gun & incurs the relevant penalty..correct me if I am wrong but where does the rules cover 'if in a holster then not considered dropped & further you have the position of the barrel when dropped. Regards 'Mohawk Seems I should have gone through ALL the posts before my comment.!!!! We had a shooter here in Aus where he took off at a gallop to the next position , unfortunately his rig hit the ground with both pistols unfired...given a match DQ ..I see this as the right call under the rules. The "dropped gun" SDQ rule requires the T/O to retrieve it...but if the pistols are still holstered, they aren't considered DROPPED. Shooter may SAFELY retrieve gunbelt/holsters/revolvers and continue with the stage. That is NOT a reshoot situation. REF: SHB p.25 RO1 p.18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Someone once told me to not to go to a gun fight with broken equipment. SG/Gun belts are part of the equipment. Ya want to keep your belts up with a Rodeo buckle? Fine. If buckle breaks or come undone or screws come undone, well, you loose the gun fight. Ck your equipment out before the match. As been said, how often does this happen? No new or change rules are needed IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Howdy Blastmaster. I agree. I was just looking for a clarification on the SG belt falling off vs. the holsters/belt doing the same thing. To retrieve the holsters (with pistols still in them) is permissable with no penalty. But to retrieve the SG belt was being defined as a penalty act and I was hoping for some clarification on it. Have a good day. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 By the time it gets to stage 4, the topic will probably be Blue Bell Ice Cream..... ..........Widder Darn you Widder! They have shut down production cause a few people got the drizzles. Now here it is summer in Texas and all they carry are store brands and that wretched Ben and Jerry's crap. Oh what I wouldn't give for some Strawberry and Homeade Vanilla, or Peache's and Hamode Vanilla, or anything that says Blue Bell from the contented cows in Brenham! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Howdy Goody. I guess you could say that I 'Flung a cravin on ya' with my BLue Bell Ice Cream suggestion. You just never know what you might encounter on The Wire...... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Darn you Widder! They have shut down production cause a few people got the drizzles. Now here it is summer in Texas and all they carry are store brands and that wretched Ben and Jerry's crap. Oh what I wouldn't give for some Strawberry and Homeade Vanilla, or Peache's and Hamode Vanilla, or anything that says Blue Bell from the contented cows in Brenham! I used to live in Cleburne, Texas and I've been through Brenham a time or two and I do recall not seeing any discontented cows. Bluebell makes great ice cream! Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 You didn't fling it, you just. fanned it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Personally I like Braum's Ice Cream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Did someone say "ice cream?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I did Allie. What flavor ya want and what size? want it in a bowl, in a cone or one of those tasty waffle cones where you can bite the tip off and suck out the ice cream. mmmmmmm goooood! ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I fully expect this to be on page 4 by then. Oh no. Widder promised us your prompt, concise response would limit this to just one page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Darn you Widder! They have shut down production cause a few people got the drizzles. Now here it is summer in Texas and all they carry are store brands and that wretched Ben and Jerry's crap. Oh what I wouldn't give for some Strawberry and Homeade Vanilla, or Peache's and Hamode Vanilla, or anything that says Blue Bell from the contented cows in Brenham! Bet you could talk Widder into driving down to Mayfield's headquarters and taking some pictures of him eating some mighty tasty Mayfield Vanilla Ice Cream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Hmmm, come to think of it I've got a half gallon of Mayfield in the freezer now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I've got a gallon of bluebell and a couple boxes of bluebell pops in the freezer. I'm saving them because I figure they'll be worth big bucks from people pining away for bluebell. I think it's time to unload them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Now I gotta hankering for a Tru Moo bar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Bringing this BACK on topic. The penalty for retrieving dropped/ejected ammunition needs to be eliminated!!! We did away with the penalty for doing it in Wild Bunch years ago and have had ZERO problems. It is a stupid penalty to prevent a shooter from possibly incurring another penalty (loss of muzzle control). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Bringing this BACK on topic. The penalty for retrieving dropped/ejected ammunition needs to be eliminated!!! We did away with the penalty for doing it in Wild Bunch years ago and have had ZERO problems. It is a stupid penalty to prevent a shooter from possibly incurring another penalty (loss of muzzle control). Absolutely agree. The way it is now if the instructions call for staging ammo in a box on a counter and shooter drops round back to the box it is legal to retrieve, so must be deemed safe. If it drops to the counter top, it is illegal, so must be deemed unsafe. If the instructions call for the ammo to be staged on the counter top and a round is dropped to counter top it may be retrieved. Same counter, same action, same risk! The penalty for breaking the 170 is already in place, pre-emptive penalties are not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Absolutely agree. The way it is now if the instructions call for staging ammo in a box on a counter and shooter drops round back to the box it is legal to retrieve, so must be deemed safe. If it drops to the counter top, it is illegal, so must be deemed unsafe. If the instructions call for the ammo to be staged on the counter top and a round is dropped to counter top it may be retrieved. Same counter, same action, same risk! The penalty for breaking the 170 is already in place, pre-emptive penalties are not needed. +1 Sorry for helping de-rail a topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 this is wat I think about the dropped ammo penalty.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 this is wat I think about the dropped ammo penalty.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Absolutely agree. The way it is now if the instructions call for staging ammo in a box on a counter and shooter drops round back to the box it is legal to retrieve, so must be deemed safe. If it drops to the counter top, it is illegal, so must be deemed unsafe. If the instructions call for the ammo to be staged on the counter top and a round is dropped to counter top it may be retrieved. Same counter, same action, same risk! The penalty for breaking the 170 is already in place, pre-emptive penalties are not needed. Even crazier, and I confirmed this with PWB. Shooter moves from pos 1 to pos 2 pulling out shotgun shells and, upon arriving at pos 2, realizes rifle is next so, he sets his shotgun shells on the table, picks up his rifle and goes to work. Then he picks up his shotgun and retrieves the safely placed shotgun shells and, while loading, drops one back to the table. He can pick this "dropped" round up and use it as it came from where it was staged. But heaven forefend, you drop one to the same place, that you pulled from your belt. I hope the TG's can explain to their respective clubs why this rule needs to go away and guide the clubs into voting yes to remove this rule next time it comes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Hi Folks, I did bring up at the summit that this rule is unnecessarily long, 262 words, and complicated. Part of that is the explanation that Ramrod is talking about. Eliminating the penalty almost passed this time. It was only 6 votes short of a 2/3 majority. The stumbling block has always been that some TGs are adamant that rounds should not be picked up off the ground. The ROC has taken an all-or-nothing position on this. I have no idea how to resolve this. The club I represent voted in favor of removing the penalty. However, I had four proxies from distant areas against removing the penalty. So, I am not aware of how the agenda item was presented or whether they are likely to change their positions. Regards, Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 An additional observation was made recently regarding ammo "on the ground": A shooter may stage ammunition ON THE GROUND! for later use (e.g. if there isn't a handy table or bale to set it on). THAT ammo may later be SAFELY "retrieved" and used on the stage with NO PENALTY. The odds of a shooter doing so are even less than those of a shooter trying to bend/squat down to pick up a dropped/ejected round during stage engagement (unless it is the only round available to complete an up-to-that-point CLEAN match)... that objection is, IMO, a BS "red herring" stumbling block that too many people are obsessing over..thereby blocking the passage of the agenda item to completely dispense/remove/repeal/... the MSV penalty for ANY retrieval of dropped/ejected ammo. A contingency clarification was made at the EoT TG meeting that codifies the "Lazarus Rule"...retrieved ammo may be loaded & used on a stage without additional (miss or P) penalty(ies). It was made clear that is NOT "use of illegally acquired ammo" as long as it was initially brought to the stage in an approved manner (REF SHB p.11) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Spurs Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I fully expect this to be on page 4 by then. PW- you need to spend more time "dry firing your mind control techniques". In best Yoda voice, "Change this rule you must." Howdy Goody. I guess you could say that I 'Flung a cravin on ya' with my BLue Bell Ice Cream suggestion. You just never know what you might encounter on The Wire...... ..........Widder Saw the funniest thing the other day. Most everyone is familiar with the "Come and Take It" flag with a canon on it. Somewhere close to Giddings, Texas we saw a flag that said "Come and Take It" with NOT a canon but an image of the Blue Bell girl leading a cow. That was too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt Blade, #25657 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I do not think that SASS is improved by all this seemingly-endless lawyering of the rules. There. Fixed it. I got both size thirteens in my mouth at once. Misread the thread and popped off an inappropriate comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 until it happens to you!!! or two people at a match and two different calls are made.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I do not think that SASS is improved by all this seemingly-endless lawyering of the rules. Do you care to explain exactly what you mean by that statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt Blade, #25657 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Pale Wolf, Yes, I will. I like that we keep things as simple as possible, and The Cowboy Way is what we try to run by. Personally, when "stuff happens" I am going to try and just figure that I have had more calls go my way than against, and that this is a fun game to play. Wouldn't it be nice if you had no rules questions to resolve for a few weeks or so? How about a five page thread on "How to keep your Match Director's Head From Exploding"? You folks who have taken up the job of keeping this all running have given us a great game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 Howdy Burt. I didn't think asking for a clarification of a rule concerning dropped holsters (with pistols inside) vs. dropped SG belt would be considered "lawyering of the rules". Because that is the subject of this thread, which apparently seems to have the attention of the ROC at this time. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt Blade, #25657 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I do seem to have a habit of getting sideways with folks. Working on fixing it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I do seem to have a habit of getting sideways with folks. Working on fixing it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 21, 2015 Author Share Posted July 21, 2015 I do seem to have a habit of getting sideways with folks. Working on fixing it... and so do I..... right now, I'm probably sideways with the ROC..... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 and so do I..... right now, I'm probably sideways with the ROC..... ..........Widder Ya got THAT right! Yer already on one of "the lists". You buckin' for Wyatt's record for "black stars"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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