Grizzly Dave Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Ohhhhhhhhh I'm sorry my friend, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one. And it's the one area where I fall firmly in the camp of there being too many categories. Even if the awards aren't as nice as EoT or Winter Range, awards make up a significant percentage of the cost of putting on a big match. Yes, we order awards based on entries received but when you're ordering awards you have to get the order in by a particular date so you can only make a best guess as to which ones and how many. Between that date and the date of the award ceremony MANY things change and none of them are good. What you're left with is a VERY unhappy customer who doesn't get an award at the ceremony and/or unused awards that are $$$ down the drain. They CAN, but they don't HAVE TO. All a matter of what your club wants to do. And even if you wanted say belt buckles, get ones with no year on them and 'top ten' or 'top five' and if you don't need them that year, use them the next. Besides, the top 5 percent in this game win more awards or buckles than they can ever use. More categories means that the other 95 percent, who pay the same match fees get to hear their name called now and then. What's wrong with that? We've been thru all of this at least 4 or 5 times a year since I've been in the game, We ain't never gonna all agree. Hey Al, you really want competition??? Shoot duelist in 49er. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hey Al, you really want competition??? Shoot duelist in 49er. :D I have. Signed up 49er thinking I would shoot it two handed. After one stage. I went back to Duelist. And I would rather do that. Than be the only one or very few in duelist. And because of this thread. Will do it at the match this weekend. As I am normally the only duelist there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hi Folks, All I keep are firsts. Yes, I actually have some from years ago. The rest get disassembled; brass goes to the recycler and wood goes to the fireplace. So, now all that a match means to me is "who else is going." Whatever the rest of you think is okay with me. I am glad to let the majority decide. I'm not a contender and am happy with leaving decisions like this to the folks who have a stake in the outcome. I do love the venue (you know who you are) where I don't know my category until I arrive and I'm always one-of-one; first place. Once, I would have even beat someone; but was very glad for her to win a first also. Regards, Allie Mo PS The only thing I really want anymore is a clean annual and those are dang hard for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Sackett SASS 18436 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 OK, here's a little food for thought. We used to attend a shoot in Raton, NM every summer(OWSA). Hardest shoot there was. Small targets, fairly far off(some VERY far off!). 10 second misses. We loved it. It was our vacation every year. Basically, there were 5 categories for adults: traditional, modern, duelist, blackpowder, and senior. There were some good things too: 32 main stages, a LOT of side matches, and very low cost. Was discontinued 4 or 5 years ago. Not enough shooters signed up. Suppose the amount of categories had ANYTHING to do with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 OK, here's a little food for thought. We used to attend a shoot in Raton, NM every summer(OWSA). Hardest shoot there was. Small targets, fairly far off(some VERY far off!). 10 second misses. We loved it. It was our vacation every year. Basically, there were 5 categories for adults: traditional, modern, duelist, blackpowder, and senior. There were some good things too: 32 main stages, a LOT of side matches, and very low cost. Was discontinued 4 or 5 years ago. Not enough shooters signed up. Suppose the amount of categories had ANYTHING to do with that? Think the small and fairly far off targets had more to do with it than lack of category's. As those type matches have went down or out no matter how many categories they had. My opinion is. If you have a FUN match. Folks will show up to shoot it. No matter what category they have to shoot in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventura Slim, SASS #35690 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Scattergories. Takes awhile to go through the scores by them. I do like one handed shooters and blackpowder and age based (can we change the name wrangler to cowboy something). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventura Slim, SASS #35690 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Raton is a nice town in a nice spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sam, SASS #34718L Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Beautiful place to shoot. But I dont think the number of categories had anything to do with their demise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVyVpNHUPwg Could have been the format was about as exciting as watching paint dry though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Faro, SASS #54579 Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 I apologize for beating the dead horse on this topic but I don't venture to the wire much anymore. I was just thinking about all the different categories and the future proposed categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo slim Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 "Me. I would love to see Duelist and GFer put together. WOW. Now we really got a category." throw in two handed and you have "RENEGADE" ....2 stages of each...well thats how we roll at the Texas Ten Horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Sackett SASS 18436 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 OWSA WAS a fun shoot, although difficult. When we first attended, there were over 300 shooters. A couple could shoot for less than $100. Their first big drop came when the Whittington center added a $50 per shooter fee. It was still a bargain IMO. Attendance dwindled down to around 100 til the end. Only a fraction of that had signed up a couple of weeks before the match. Guess it wasn't most folks cup of tea. It had the most beautiful scenery of anywhere we've shot, in the foothills of the Rockies. We miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 "Me. I would love to see Duelist and GFer put together. WOW. Now we really got a category." throw in two handed and you have "RENEGADE" ....2 stages of each...well thats how we roll at the Texas Ten Horns. In FL they had "all around cowboy", 5 stages bp, 5 smokeyless, 4 gf, 2 duelist, 4 traditional. 5 w/ 97 or 87. 5 sxs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four Bucks #36386 Life Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 So what I am getting is. We need to offer all kinds of category's So more people will show up just because they can win an award? Now see. I think that is sad. P.S. I respect everyone that has posted on here. Even if I disagree with it. I agree Al...I like getting different viewpoints on issues and welcome the food for thought. Sometimes we tend to have an idea and believe that it's the only way to look at things. The ability to agree to disagree is also important. I kept an open mind once and accidentally learned something! 4 Bux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I agree Al...I like getting different viewpoints on issues and welcome the food for thought. Sometimes we tend to have an idea and believe that it's the only way to look at things. The ability to agree to disagree is also important. I kept an open mind once and accidentally learned something! 4 Bux Worked for a Hall of Fame Cutting Horse trainer that told me one time. If you don't learn something new everyday. You have wasted a whole day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 No, My why is simple, we are not a professional shooting sport. I agree. Also, this is a fantasy sport. And if it is in our fantasy that we're a winner, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Need more categories! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 What are we talking about? Oh...yeah...too many categories. My opinion...I enjoy seeing folks win that buckle. I don't care how many folks are in the category. If the winner has a smile and his/her face...all is good. If I don't want to sit around while all the categories are called up...I get up and walk around and shoot the breeze with a friend. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 What are we talking about? Oh...yeah...too many categories. My opinion...I enjoy seeing folks win that buckle. I don't care how many folks are in the category. If the winner has a smile and his/her face...all is good. If I don't want to sit around while all the categories are called up...I get up and walk around and shoot the breeze with a friend. Phantom One of my favorite awards came from Ides of March. 2nd place. It's a picture of the result of a shootout. One guy is standing and the other is laying in the street. I told my wife, "that's me ... the guy laying in the street". She just walked away. Glad it's just entertainment! Waimea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well, I can add much more to what Deuce and Creeker have already said have already said on this thread. But I'll take the bait ;-) and chime in here with my 2 cents: I am fine with the number of categories we have. The more the merrier as far as I am concerned. Heck, at most of the monthly matches I go to I only read the overall placement at the "awards ceremony", unless someone asks for category results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 One of my favorite awards came from Ides of March. 2nd place. It's a picture of the result of a shootout. One guy is standing and the other is laying in the street. I told my wife, "that's me ... the guy laying in the street". She just walked away. Glad it's just entertainment! Waimea hmmmmmm yur dead???? which direction did she go????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I guess my thinking is. If you have a pie. And it is only so big. You have some pieces that are just about the right size. And others that are REALLY THIN. Don't think you should cut those that are just the right size to make them smaller. I think you stop cutting pieces to make those REALLY THIN slices bigger. And lets face it. We got some REALLY thin slices. Thin slices of what? Fun? Why does it make a difference. Most of us have no hope of ever winning anything other than our category. Why take that little triumph from us? We are not taking anything away from you or anyone else. Leave them as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 hmmmmmm yur dead???? which direction did she go????? I'm only FIGURATIVELY dead. THE TRUCE IS OVER!!! That didn't last long! Waimea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 come to the Noreaster!!!! we'll settle things there, if you dunt make it I'll take it that your forfeited!!! lol!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prestidigitator Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Put duelist and gunfighter in the same category? If only a category allowed you to shoot all styles in one, that would be great! B-Western allows all three, and which one is used to win the overall spot in the class? once you allow more than one style in a class, one will fade in that said class. Just like b-western. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost, SASS #50125 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Isn't it summer where y'all live? This train left the depot so long ago the Way Back Machine would just say, "Huh?" There is only one true category. We all know that and tolerate all y'all shooting all the other categories just so we can have friends help set targets and keep score. or..... 1. Classic Junior 2. Classic Mid-Range 3. Classic Senior 4. Classic Silver 5. Classic Older 6. Classic Oldest 7. Classic Unable but Willin' 8. All the Above in Duelist 9. All the Above in Double Duelist 10. ..............................? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COLORADO JACKSON Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Think the small and fairly far off targets had more to do with it than lack of category's. As those type matches have went down or out no matter how many categories they had. My opinion is. If you have a FUN match. Folks will show up to shoot it. No matter what category they have to shoot in. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 No, My why is simple, we are not a professional shooting sport. It is and always has been entertainment. Yes you can compete at a high level. But at the end of the day 1st. and 100th. place leave no richer. As a match director I'm willing to do what makes my customers happy, and that includes letting guys get together to make a sub category. The largest membership influx in this game was based off of folks getting to lose themselves for a few days while putting some ammo downrange and enjoying fellowship with like minded folks. I've never cared what other shooting sports have thought of us for that matter either. When you realize your results can be altered by how well 3 people can see and hear it really puts it in perspective for me. That being said I would not want to see 20 more categories but I think our current system covers the bases nicely. Thank you Deuce, ++++++++1 You laid it out better than i could have. I shoot Frontiersman or FCD, at local matches, we don't give out awards, ribbons, or certificates. It's about the fun and how I did against myself and a few others who love the soot! For cash-strapped annual matches, for a couple of years we gave out nicely printed certificates to the Category Winners. That was fine for me. Doesn't have to be a Plaque, or Lucite Standup or anything costly. It IS about the fun-factor, meeting up with folks you don't see often enough, and sending lead down-range. (with lots of smoke, noise and occasional Duck-Calls!) Leave it like it be, and have fun! Duc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Think the small and fairly far off targets had more to do with it than lack of category's. As those type matches have went down or out no matter how many categories they had. My opinion is. If you have a FUN match. Folks will show up to shoot it. No matter what category they have to shoot in. Watched the video and that did not look like a fun match. IMHO, the target placement is what kept folks from coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 ...we shoot every SASS recognized category even if there is only 1 shooter.... ...and if someone want to add another category, just get 3 shooters together that will shoot a particular added category and we'll shoot it as well... ...this is the approach our Match Directors have taken for a while now... sorta takes the discussion out of do we have too many or not enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 How to answer this? I think we could do it using a matrix setup where you have shooting style and propellant plus B&W ,cc and cap and ball guns along the top and the age groups down the right side then go over or down to find your shooting group that way you never need to add anymore. For match directors you require x per grouping. For state it is three shooters for it to be offered For regional the number is 5 for men and 3 for women For national the number is 7 for men and 5 for women For the world it is 10 for men and 5 for women And the new level will fall in at the same lever as the regionals. That way unless the come up with a military , outlaw or steampunk category to go along with be and cc then a category vote isn't needed as all existing possibilities are covered. End of soap box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 The more people you can put a smile on their face the better it is..IMHO Yes we probably don't need any more categories but I see nothing wrong with the current situation. At my home club we have a couple of new shooters, they first started about 2 years ago..86 & 84 years young..to see the look on their faces when they win a trophy is priceless, gives them something to brag to the grand kids about !! Who cares if there is only one in the category..I'II just be pleased to be around at that age & still enjoying shooting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I would personally like to see it go back to when I first started without the Modern category of course. Traditional (2 handed) Duelist Black powder Ladies Junior Yea, that's gonna happen!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Kid, SASS #54030 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 or..... 1. Classic Junior 2. Classic Mid-Range 3. Classic Senior 4. Classic Silver 5. Classic Older 6. Classic Oldest 7. Classic Unable but Willin' 8. All the Above in Duelist 9. All the Above in Double Duelist 10. ..............................? 11. Swiss born, left eye dominant, no time for practice classic senior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 or..... 1. Classic Junior 2. Classic Mid-Range 3. Classic Senior 4. Classic Silver 5. Classic Older 6. Classic Oldest 7. Classic Unable but Willin' 8. All the Above in Duelist 9. All the Above in Double Duelist 10. ..............................? yepper...that's exactly what would happen. then we could subdivide all those again with Classic Silver Cowboy Frontier Cartridge Double Duelist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 One of the great things about this game is that everyone has many different avenues they can take. My good traveling friend and traveling partner Crazy Mingo turned 68 while we were at EOT together. His goal was to "buckle". Well he placed 10th in Frontier Cartridge Duelist to secure himself a buckle. I have never seen him happier in the game than at that moment. In fact He was so pumped up all the way home he didn't leave the drivers seat for 18 hours. There were three shooters behind him that I imagine would have loved to have been in his shoes. He was proud and I was proud of him. Who am I or anyone else to ridicule the joy that someone else takes from how they compete in this hobby/game. Or try to cheapen it in some way. To do so is the definition of elitism in my mind, which does not nurture or encourage growth in anything. This subject has been beat to death for years. I do not see the category structure changing anytime soon. It will continue to be talked about but as with virtually everything in SASS NOTHING will get solved on the wire. Talk to your TG, come up with a new structure and propose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.