WTC

[billy broncstomper]

On a stage that requires downrange movement (specifically the shotgun), when exiting the stage what is the correct way to carry your double barrel shotgun? I was told because of stage design it was OK for the barrels of the shotgun to be pointed back up range. At a recent shoot i had the following experience.Shooter finishes the stage, retreives shotgun and starts to exit stage. The shooter made no effort to hold barrels up. The barrels were almost parallel to the ground. When I said muzzle, he ignored me and kept on walking. Is there a call or no call because of the stage design?

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Shooter is NEVER granted the permission to sweep others with the muzzle, anywhere on the stage. If gun is unloaded, sweeping someone (other than yourself) is a SDQ. (If gun is loaded, it's a MDQ.)

 

Stage design never releases shooter from "don't sweep others" safety rule. If folks are in the wrong place for you to move, then don't move, and ask them to clear a path.

 

The fact that a double barrel breaks the action open and makes directional control of the barrels tougher, does not release the shooter from "don't sweep others" rule, either.

 

As has been covered in several threads about how to point muzzles when moving from firing line to the unloading table, it is always safe to hold the muzzles straight up. Once shooter steps off the firing line and heads to the unloading table, he is no longer required to adhere to the 170 degree rule. He IS required not to be sweeping folks, regardless of how he holds his firearms.

 

Shooter was ignoring the safety rules. Unless there were no other pards between him and the unloading table, he swept those pards. And should have been called for it.

 

If a shooter ignores your safety-related request, take it up with your posse marshal.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

+1

 

ie, don't sweep me!!

[Most Wanted]

This is funny because we just came back from a very good shoot a few hundred miles away and my son and I both noticed how differently some would carry their guns and exit a stage. Let me make this Clear. No body swept anybody and no unsafe gun handling was present. Just Different from what we're used to. Now in the OP it sounds like there was a problem and the shooter was wrong. I shoot a SxS and when I carry it I have my hand around the forend and barrels with barrels pointed strait up at about shoulder height.

[C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100]

GJ is correct. If a shooter sweeps me, i call it. If the call is not honored, I leave.

 

This is supposed to be a game - not a risk your life contest. Too many supposedly unloaded guns have killed people.

 

I do not like some of the Rules, but I follow and enforce them.

[Captain Bill Burt]

Shooter is NEVER granted the permission to sweep others with the muzzle, anywhere on the stage. If gun is unloaded, sweeping someone (other than yourself) is a SDQ. (If gun is loaded, it's a MDQ.)

 

Stage design never releases shooter from "don't sweep others" safety rule. If folks are in the wrong place for you to move, then don't move, and ask them to clear a path.

 

The fact that a double barrel breaks the action open and makes directional control of the barrels tougher, does not release the shooter from "don't sweep others" rule, either.

 

As has been covered in several threads about how to point muzzles when moving from firing line to the unloading table, it is always safe to hold the muzzles straight up. Once shooter heads to the unloading table, he is no longer required to adhere to the 170 degree rule. He IS required not to be sweeping folks, regardless of how he holds his firearms.

 

Shooter was ignoring the safety rules. Unless there were no other pards between him and the unloading table, he swept those pards. And should have been called for it.

 

If a shooter ignores your safety-related request, take it up with your posse marshal.

 

Good luck, GJ

+1

 

This is funny because we just came back from a very good shoot a few hundred miles away and my son and I both noticed how differently some would carry their guns and exit a stage. Let me make this Clear. No body swept anybody and no unsafe gun handling was present. Just Different from what we're used to. Now in the OP it sounds like there was a problem and the shooter was wrong. I shoot a SxS and when I carry it I have my hand around the forend and barrels with barrels pointed strait up at about shoulder height.

 

+1

GJ is correct. If a shooter sweeps me, i call it. If the call is not honored, I leave.

 

This is supposed to be a game - not a risk your life contest. Too many supposedly unloaded guns have killed people.

 

I do not like some of the Rules, but I follow and enforce them.

+1

[Anvil Al #59168]

On a stage that requires downrange movement (specifically the shotgun), when exiting the stage what is the correct way to carry your double barrel shotgun? I was told because of stage design it was OK for the barrels of the shotgun to be pointed back up range. At a recent shoot i had the following experience.Shooter finishes the stage, retreives shotgun and starts to exit stage. The shooter made no effort to hold barrels up. The barrels were almost parallel to the ground. When I said muzzle, he ignored me and kept on walking. Is there a call or no call because of the stage design?

 

 

This is where they need slapped with a SDQ.

MD needs to uphold it.

 

Get that shooters attention.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

 

 

This is where they need slapped with a SDQ.

MD needs to uphold it.

 

Get that shooters attention.

I agree, hard to believe this is even in question

4. “Muzzle up” Please move to the Unloading Table” should be stated at the end of a shooting sequence.

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Blastmaster]

In the OP, what was the call?

[billy broncstomper]

In the OP, what was the call?

No call

[Yusta B.]

No call

That's pretty sad ........... Edit: if anyone was even close to being swept.

[Anvil Al #59168]

We also have to remember. We are only hearing one side on this particular case.

 

Just how low was the barrels.

 

Did the shooter really sweep anyone.

 

Did the RO feel the same as the person that started this post??

 

Just saying!!!!!!!!!

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

On a stage that requires downrange movement (specifically the shotgun), when exiting the stage what is the correct way to carry your double barrel shotgun?

I was told because of stage design it was OK for the barrels of the shotgun to be pointed back up range.

Where was the rest of the posse and/or the loading/unloading areas relative to the direction the shooter was headed?

 

At a recent shoot i had the following experience.Shooter finishes the stage, retreives shotgun and starts to exit stage. The shooter made no effort to hold barrels up. The barrels were almost parallel to the ground.

Same question.

When I said muzzle, he ignored me and kept on walking.

Is there a call or no call because of the stage design?

Same question.

 

The PRIMARY consideration when leaving the stage to the ULT is that the muzzles are pointed in a SAFE direction & do NOT SWEEP anyone, which will depend on the layout of the stage/range.

 

Any SAFETY violations/concerns should immediately be brought to the attention of the Timer Operator; then up the "chain of command" if no action is taken (but the complainant should be certain that an actual violation has occurred).

[Anvil Al #59168]

No call

 

 

Why was that??

 

Could have been because of the stage design and that he DID NOT sweep anyone???

 

Was you the RO. Or did the RO make this a NO CALL because they knew he was fine and did not

sweep anyone??

Could be in this case. A experienced RO watched this. And just did not see

any infraction to call.

 

Now if they did sweep people.

Yes, SDQ.

 

But for some reason. Feel we are not hearing it all.

[Cherokee sgt.]

I was at this same match & there was very little room. For shooter to go to UL table shooter had to travel

Passed & through many on posse . When my posse shot stage I tried to keep lane clear

I was assistant to posse Marshall .

[Blastmaster]

No call

OK

 

Did he sweep anyone, in your opinion?

[billy broncstomper]

Thank you Palewolf. The PM was at the loading table. The RO was discussing if a sdq had been committed by the shooter with the spotters. Myself and at least 3 other people were swept and we did inform RO, but there was no call. As I stated in op the barrels were almost parallel with the ground. I thought you should always at least make an attempt to keep barrels straight up if there is no other good direction to point them.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Thank you Palewolf. The PM was at the loading table. The RO was discussing if a sdq had been committed by the shooter with the spotters. Myself and at least 3 other people were swept and we did inform RO, but there was no call. As I stated in op the barrels were almost parallel with the ground. I thought you should always at least make an attempt to keep barrels straight up if there is no other good direction to point them.

 

If the shooter had already committed an SDQ offense on that stage, then the 2nd one (SWEEPING others with the muzzle(s) of empty firearm(s) would = a MATCH DQ.

 

That is a recent clarification that has been codified in the most current version of the RO1 (page 21)

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

It would be beneficial to hear the T/O's reason for the "no call" before we string him up.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Thank you Palewolf. The PM was at the loading table. The RO was discussing if a sdq had been committed by the shooter with the spotters. Myself and at least 3 other people were swept and we did inform RO, but there was no call. As I stated in op the barrels were almost parallel with the ground. I thought you should always at least make an attempt to keep barrels straight up if there is no other good direction to point them.

 

 

Have been in contact with some very experience shooters that was there.

 

Not what I am getting.

 

Just saying.

[billy broncstomper]

Have been in contact with some very experience shooters that was there.

 

Not what I am getting.

 

Just saying.

I'm not sure who you talked to, but I doubt they were actually at that stage when it happened.

[Anvil Al #59168]

I'm not sure who you talked to, but I doubt they were actually at that stage when it happened.

 

 

OH. But they was.

[billy broncstomper]

OH. But they was.

Hmmmm. Ok

[Blastmaster]

So, as a TO, if someone comes up to you and states that someone swept them while going to ULT, aNd they are very sure, no one else saw it, what is the call?

This should be interesting.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

So, as a TO, if someone comes up to you and states that someone swept them while going to ULT, aNd they are very sure, no one else saw it, what is the call?

This should be interesting.

BOD to shooter. No penalty.

 

If two "safety officers" (remember, rules say everyone is a safety officer) corroborate the report, that removes BOD and there would be a SDQ issued. IMHO.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Anvil Al #59168]

So, as a TO, if someone comes up to you and states that someone swept them while going to ULT, aNd they are very sure, no one else saw it, what is the call?

This should be interesting.

 

 

Would also depend on what the TO seen.

[Most Wanted]

BOD to shooter. No penalty.

 

If two "safety officers" (remember, rules say everyone is a safety officer) corroborate the report, that removes BOD and there would be a SDQ issued. IMHO.

 

Good luck, GJ

+1

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

BOD to shooter. No penalty.

 

If two "safety officers" (remember, rules say everyone is a safety officer) corroborate the report, that removes BOD and there would be a SDQ issued. IMHO.

 

Good luck, GJ

Gee the rules state very clearly who stage officers are for identifying potential penalties. I do not recall where in the rules two non stage officers removes BOD. If the violation was as obvious as stated by the OPer, why didn't a stage official see it?

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

I'd be very interested in knowing who these "very experienced shooters that was there" are. The implication seems to be that the OP has a vivid imagination. Being on the posse with him the entire weekend, I can assure that he simply states what he sees, doesn't look to penalize, but doesn't turn a blind eye based upon who is shooting.

[Anvil Al #59168]

I agree it only takes one to make a call.

 

But if the TO sees it also.

And disagrees. Then it is a no call.

 

 

 

I have been a TO when someone called a 170 on someone with a loaded pistol.

I watched the pistol the whole way.

I know it was close. But also knew it did not break it.

 

SO.

 

NO call.

 

Being a TO is not a easy job.

Sometimes calls get overruled based on what they also see.

And what others say. OR. Do not say.

 

It's happened before. It will happen again.

 

And there are times. The TO gets it right. And the person calling it got it wrong.

 

There are also times. The TO gets it wrong on what they believe.

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

By all means, please name these experienced shooters.

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

Perhaps they'll be able to share their thoughts on other issues they didn't see as well.

[Nichols Creek, SASS #77627]

I made the call. I did not observe a penalty. Mr broncstomper did say he saw a sweep, I have no memory of any other collaboration of a sweep. With what I observed and the information available,no penalty was assessed. I stand by my decision. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback a call, but it was my decision to make and, I did. Next shooter!

[Anvil Al #59168]

I made the call. I did not observe a penalty. Mr broncstomper did say he saw a sweep, I have no memory of any other collaboration of a sweep. With what I observed and the information available,no penalty was assessed. I stand by my decision. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback a call, but it was my decision to make and, I did. Next shooter!

 

 

Being a TO is not easy.

 

Have to make calls that people don't like.

AND

There are times you have to make no calls people don't like.

 

Sometimes. It's a no win for the person having to make that choice.

 

Have always known you to be honest and fair.

And not afraid to make calls you know are there.

[Blastmaster]

 

 

Would also depend on what the TO seen.

You are responding to my post. I said, in my post (has nothing to do with OP) no one else, and that includes the TO witnessed the infraction,, as in everyone was occupied with other things., Think TO was involved with the score keeper to be sure the time was recorded properly for example. Bottom line, you as the TO has to rule in favor or not , what the one sole person that really believes what he saw and has reported to you as the TO. Now, what would you do?

 

I will reveal what I would do later down this thread.