¿Converting Adjustable Sight Revolvers to Fixed?

[Lucas McDennis]

There are fixed sight revolvers in high demand that are no longer in production. Two examples are the centerfire Ruger Single Six and the Old Army. Their adjustable sight cousins are more abundant and cheaper, but prohibited in most of the SASS classes where they would be most useful.

 

What would it take to make, say, an adjustable sight Ruger Old Army legal for Plainsman & Frontiersman? Could one not simply remove the adjustable sight, fashion a fixed replacent, and attach it in some way? Must the rear sight of a fixed sight revolver actually be milled out of the receiver, or can it be a separate part which is attached?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Lucas McDennis

San Jose, CA

[Ace_of_Hearts]

There are fixed sight revolvers in high demand that are no longer in production. Two examples are the centerfire Ruger Single Six and the Old Army. Their adjustable sight cousins are more abundant and cheaper, but prohibited in most of the SASS classes where they would be most useful.

 

What would it take to make, say, an adjustable sight Ruger Old Army legal for Plainsman & Frontiersman? Could one not simply remove the adjustable sight, fashion a fixed replacent, and attach it in some way? Must the rear sight of a fixed sight revolver actually be milled out of the receiver, or can it be a separate part which is attached?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Lucas McDennis

San Jose, CA

The only categories that PROHIBIT adjustable sights are Duelist style, Frontier Cartridge and Gunfighter. All other categories allow adjustable sight revolvers. Your statement that adjustable sight revolvers are prohibited in MOST SASS categories is just not true.

 

Any external modification must be specifically approved. If the External modification is not listed as approved in the handbook then it is illegal. Page 10 of your shooters handbook - BOLD letters at the bottom of the page.

 

The method for converting a Ruger Old Army to fixed sights is covered on page 7 of the Shooters Handbook under Frames and Receivers.

 

I think you will find the conversion more expensive than purchasing a fixed sight revolver.

[Noz]

FRONTIERSMAN requires fixed sights. and Leave us alone.

[Rye Miles #13621]

More importantly is how the heck did you get the question mark upside down????

[Tyrel Cody]

More importantly is how the heck did you get the question mark upside down????

On my Android phone it is included with all the other symbols. ¿

[Rye Miles #13621]

Okay, my I-Phone doesn't have it!

 

Rye

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Lucas, the SASS Shooter's hand book is VERY clear and specific about this topic. As well as it having been covered here before.The top strap must be welded up and configured to look like a SAA top strap.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

The only categories that PROHIBIT adjustable sights are Duelist style, Frontier Cartridge and Gunfighter. All other categories allow adjustable sight revolvers.

 

 

Missed another category by trying to be too general. Shooting styles are not categories. Classic Cowboy requires fixed sight revolvers, and in 40 cal or above. Might as well cite the rule instead of working off the top of your head.

 

CC is a duelist shooting style category. Any duelist / double duelist must have fixed sight revolvers.

 

 

DUELIST

• Any Main Match fixed sight model revolver.

Page 13, SHB

 

 

If you had stated "all categories requiring Duelist shooting style," you would have been closer.

 

 

 

Back to the OP -

 

Manufacturing a replacement FIXED rear sight that fits the factory opening would not meet the definition of what a fixed sight on revolver has to be:

 

 

• A simple open notched rear sight cut into the frame, hammer, or latch mechanism is the only rear sight allowed.

SHB

Bolding is my emphasis

 

 

You could submit the idea for RO committee review of such an external mod, but it probably will be turned down on past precedence, IMHO. External Mods are prohibited except where expressly allowed (by rule or submission for review).

 

Good luck, GJ

[Anvil Al #59168]

_{Slick McClade took a pair of Ruger Blackhawks and had them}

_{milled down.}

_{Just a look at them. You would think they was a pair of Ruger Vaqueros.}

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Senior Duelist at one time allowed adjustable sights-

That has been changed-

OLG

[Fingers McGee]

Senior Duelist allows adjustable sights-

OLG

 

 

I think that got changed at the last conference. Senior Duelist is a Duelist first and is limited to fixed sight revolvers. SHB page 13

 

Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee

[Gawd Awful]

Senior Duelist allows adjustable sights-

OLG

The last TG summit they voted to make all "SR" categories follow the rules of the "style based" categories. So SR duelist now has to follow the rules of duelist. They gave a 1 year "grace period" to allow people to adjust to the new rules, however SR duelist doesn't allow fixed sites anymore.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

 

 

I think that got changed at the last conference. Senior Duelist is a Duelist first and is limited to fixed sight revolvers. SHB page 13

 

Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee

 

 

The last TG summit they voted to make all "SR" categories follow the rules of the "style based" categories. So SR duelist now has to follow the rules of duelist. They gave a 1 year "grace period" to allow people to adjust to the new rules, however SR duelist doesn't allow fixed sites anymore.

 

 

Thank you BOTH for the correction!

My statement was in error and I will correct it.

OLG

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

Don't forget that the front sight may need attention as well. Modern ramp type front sights aren't legal where traditional fixed sights are required.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

FRONTIERSMAN requires fixed sights. and Leave us alone.

Frontiersman is a Duelist only Category.

 

 

 

Missed another category by trying to be too general. Shooting styles are not categories. Classic Cowboy requires fixed sight revolvers, and in 40 cal or above. Might as well cite the rule instead of working off the top of your head.

 

CC is a duelist shooting style category. Any duelist / double duelist must have fixed sight revolvers.

 

Page 13, SHB

 

 

If you had stated "all categories requiring Duelist shooting style," you would have been closer.

 

 

 

Back to the OP -

 

Manufacturing a replacement FIXED rear sight that fits the factory opening would not meet the definition of what a fixed sight on revolver has to be:

 

SHB

Bolding is my emphasis

 

 

You could submit the idea for RO committee review of such an external mod, but it probably will be turned down on past precedence, IMHO. External Mods are prohibited except where expressly allowed (by rule or submission for review).

 

Good luck, GJ

Classic Cowboy is a Duelist only category.

I singled out Frontier Cartridge because that may be shot two handed.

I singled out Gunfighter because B-Western may use adjustable sights and shoot Gunfighter style.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

FRAMES AND RECEIVERS

• Frames and receivers may be drilled and tapped (e.g., to accept approved type sights).

• Ruger Blackhawk and Ruger Old Army adjustable sight frames may be modified by removing the rear sight assembly, welding up the sight cutout, recontouring the frame top strap, and cutting a new sight notch to replicate Colt SAA or Vaquero frames. The ramp front sight must be replaced with a blade-type in order to be allowed as a fixed sight model revolver.

 

SHB p.7

[Slick McClade]

 

These where converted from Blackhawks to vaquero style.

[Slick McClade]

[Goody, SASS #26190]

WOWSER! Those look great, Slick. But it begs the question. With the Vaquero readily available, why would one go to the expense of converting Blackhawks?

[Brimstone Bill Willson]

WOWSER! Those look great, Slick. But it begs the question. With the Vaquero readily available, why would one go to the expense of converting Blackhawks?

There was a time when the Vaquero did not exist, these may have been made then.

[Goody, SASS #26190]

No, Slick's not THAT old!

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

After reading all of this, I find myself wanting to ask a simple question:

 

How do we go about asking that the rules be changed to allow adjustable sights in Duelist Type categories?

 

I find it silly that I can't use my antique S&W New Model 3 in my category of choice just because it has "adjustable" sights.

 

(I find it even more bizarre that I can't use the gun in a black powder category for the same reason, even though the gun must be loaded with the stuff....)

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

After reading all of this, I find myself wanting to ask a simple question:

 

How do we go about asking that the rules be changed to allow adjustable sights in Duelist Type categories?

 

I find it silly that I can't use my antique S&W New Model 3 in my category of choice just because it has "adjustable" sights.

 

(I find it even more bizarre that I can't use the gun in a black powder category for the same reason, even though the gun must be loaded with the stuff....)

 

Have your club Territorial Governor bring it to the table (or the TG Forum) as a discussion item.

 

FWIW - The last time that rule change was proposed, it FAILED miserably.

[Anvil Al #59168]

After reading all of this, I find myself wanting to ask a simple question:

 

How do we go about asking that the rules be changed to allow adjustable sights in Duelist Type categories?

 

I find it silly that I can't use my antique S&W New Model 3 in my category of choice just because it has "adjustable" sights.

 

(I find it even more bizarre that I can't use the gun in a black powder category for the same reason, even though the gun must be loaded with the stuff....)

 

 

Was voted on 9(I think 3 years ago. Maybe 4)

 

Got voted down. Most reason I was given as to why? Did not look cowboy enough to suit them.

 

So was voted down to be allowed for duelist and GFer.

 

It sure would have solved other problems. Like for those Sr Duelist that had been using them for years.

That now have to buy new guns.

 

Wish they would have made one more run on it before making them illegal for Sr Duelist and Sr GFer.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

 

 

Was voted on 9(I think 3 years ago. Maybe 4)

 

Got voted down. Most reason I was given as to why? Did not look cowboy enough to suit them.

 

So was voted down to be allowed for duelist and GFer.

 

It sure would have solved other problems. Like for those Sr Duelist that had been using them for years.

That now have to buy new guns.

 

Wish they would have made one more run on it before making them illegal for Sr Duelist and Sr GFer.

That just blows my mind. I can't imagine the fixed sights offer any competitive advantage, especially when people use a file to adjust the sights of their vaqueros. So what is the difference? If. like you said, it is all about the "doesn't look cowboy enough" then that truly is a travesty. I love my new vaqueros, but they don't look all that much like my smoke wagon and even less like a real Colt. And let's not even get started on the 97. I sold my black hawk so I personally don't have a dog in this fight, but it's still something that baffles me.

 

I think you are correct, sir, in that one more run would have been fair and might even have passed at the same time that the ruling to make them illegal in the senior duelist/gfer categories were being voted on.

[Lucas McDennis]

Well thanks all for your patient and detailed responses! I stayed entertained at work reading them all through the day.

 

For those still wondering about the "¿", on a WinDoze machine you hold the Alt-Key down while typing out the number 168. Most of the Euro special characters are available with <Alt>-(some number), and anybody who knows any Spanish knows you need the ¿. It let's the reader know right up front that you're asking a question. It takes different tricks on different devices and operating systems.

 

Sad to see my big-handed but cash-strapped pard jonesing for a pair of Old Armies for Plainsman & Frontiersman, having to pass up a great deal on a brace of them in new condition for $600 each only because they have adjustable sights, which makes them useless for his purposes.

 

And when I'm not shooting Frontiersman with Colt Navy patterns, I'm shooting Duelist; FC or otherwise, with New Vaq's. Those are fabulous guns; just a bit too big for my hands. I notice the hot setup for fast lady duelists is .32 cal Single Sixes, but those with fixed sights are mighty scarce and dear.

 

Thanks again.

 

-Lucas McDennis

San Jose, CA

[Tully Mars]

Hey Lucas,

 

An alternative to the single sixes are the Uberti Stallions. I picked my wife up a pair in .38's. She loves them. Just may give them a try myself if shooting GF.

 

Tully

[Seldom Seen #16162]

That just blows my mind. I can't imagine the fixed sights offer any competitive advantage, especially when people use a file to adjust the sights of their vaqueros. So what is the difference?

 

John Wayne

 

Randolph Scott

 

Roy Roger

 

Gene Autry

 

Tom Selleck

 

Robert Duvall

 

Sam Elliott

 

are just a few reasons.

 

If. like you said, it is all about the "doesn't look cowboy enough" then that truly is a travesty.

 

It called COWBOY Action Shooting that requires Cowboy type attire.

 

So I guess you disagree with “The Spirit of the Game.”

 

With a membership number of over 101,000 you knew the rules before you joined.

[Tully Mars]

Seldom Seen,

 

Redwood Kid defiantly knows what Spirit of the Game means and I'm sure given the opportunity to shoot with this fine cowboy you would realize that. Yes he's new to the game, but his enthusiasm is very refreshing. He shoots GF with .45's and an 87', soon might be moving towards FCGF. This weekend he's trying out full house BP loads in his revolvers.

 

Regards,

 

Tully

[Anvil Al #59168]

 

That just blows my mind. I can't imagine the fixed sights offer any competitive advantage, especially when people use a file to adjust the sights of their vaqueros. So what is the difference?

 

John Wayne

 

Randolph Scott

 

Roy Roger

 

Gene Autry

 

Tom Selleck

 

Robert Duvall

 

Sam Elliott

 

are just a few reasons.

 

If. like you said, it is all about the "doesn't look cowboy enough" then that truly is a travesty.

 

It called COWBOY Action Shooting that requires Cowboy type attire.

 

So I guess you disagree with “The Spirit of the Game.”

 

With a membership number of over 101,000 you knew the rules before you joined.

 

 

 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

 

That just blows my mind. I can't imagine the fixed sights offer any competitive advantage, especially when people use a file to adjust the sights of their vaqueros. So what is the difference?

 

John Wayne

 

Randolph Scott

 

Roy Roger

 

Gene Autry

 

Tom Selleck

 

Robert Duvall

 

Sam Elliott

 

are just a few reasons.

 

If. like you said, it is all about the "doesn't look cowboy enough" then that truly is a travesty.

 

It called COWBOY Action Shooting that requires Cowboy type attire.

 

So I guess you disagree with “The Spirit of the Game.”

 

With a membership number of over 101,000 you knew the rules before you joined.

 

That's a list of some of my favorite cowboys. And how many of those cowboys shot a 97? I'm pretty sure none of them ever used a Ruger New Vaquero. And of course you failed to quote everything I said and conveniently left out the part where I said I don't shoot black hawks so I don't have a dog in this fight. Instead you attempt to make it look like I am trying to skirt the rules.

 

Why would you think I have an issue with "spirit of the game?" It's what keeps me coming back over and over again. In my opinion, however, hypocrisy goes against the spirit of the game and I find it hypocritical that black hawks are allowed in, but not in certain categories because they aren't cowboy enough. To me, spirit of the game means let's have fun shooting and not get all worked up because you don't like what the guy next to you shoots.

 

And yes I am new, but even since I have been here the rule has changed on who can use black hawks and when so that isn't the best argument there my friend.

[Slick McClade]

Well Goody ,

Basically just to see if it could be done 😉.

I had a pair of Blackhawks laying around that was not being shot. So what a better way to experiment than with them . They are very unique and different from everyone else's same ol same ol vaqueros 😆.

If someone had Blackhawks and wanted the conversion done it "would" be cheaper than buying new Vaqueros .

 

Slick

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

I have a 6.5 inch BH my fave now semi-retired gunsmith turned into a Vaquero before there was such a thing as a Vaquero. Half a silver dime for a front sight. Ugly black re-blue. I bought it a long time ago and it is long since semi-retired like its maker

[Warden Callaway]

I talk to people that show interest in CAS but are convinced they can't hit a thing with fixed sights. I try to explain that they can use adjustable sights in most categories and that's when their eyes glaze over and I loose communication.