Another 97 Shotgun Problem...Could Use Help

[Lead Ringer]

Hello All,

I've got an early Winchester solid frame shotgun giving me a fit. The gun is an inconsistent ejector? When it's operated at a moderate speed and force it tends to eject really well. If I operate it with force, as if in a match, it either barley dribbles out or it wont eject and stands proud on the bolt face?

Here's what I've done to the gun:

Replaced left side extractor, replaced ejector spring, changed out the right side extractor with a few different ones, hoping it helps. The little block next to the ejector spring is present.

 

Any suggestions? Can a bolt and or frame get to loose and cause inconstant ejection?

 

Thanks for any ideas.

Regards,

Ringer

 

 

 

 

[Lunger]

Does your new left side extractor pivot freely? Sometimes they need to be filed or fitted some if it's sticking.

[Chisler Wood]

Bolt is loose in frame. Had a couple just like that. If there is plenty extractor shell tension outside the gun there's only one cause.

[Guest Maker-Wright]

If it seems you've got good extractor tension on the spent shell...

 

Slip one of your fired, empty shells into the chamber. If it doesn't slip in/out easily, I'd correct the problem with the "sticky" shells first.

 

If the shells slip in and out of the chamber easily, try a stronger right side extractor spring, or, remove the R. extractor, plunger, and spring, and slip a 1/8" long section of 1/8" rod into the plunger bore (make sure it slides easily into the bore, so you can get it back out if you need to), then replace the spring, plunger and extractor. It'll be a bit more of a chore to get the extractor in/out in the future, but I've done this in the past to good effect with a weak ejecting '97. The fix seems to keep the right extractor from "giving in too soon" keeping the left extractor engaged on the shell rim until more force is built up on the ejector spring.

 

Maker

[Lead Ringer]

Does your new left side extractor pivot freely? Sometimes they need to be filed or fitted some if it's sticking.

Yes it's fitted like I've always had good luck doing.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Just box it up and send it to me, Ringer. That way, it won't bother you anymore....

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Make sure the ejector tip is angled towards the chamber to also act like a spring.

Many replacement ejectors sold today, are not made from spring steel and bend back against the frame block at a 90* angle.

OLG

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Just box it up and send it to me, Ringer. That way, it won't bother you anymore....

 

Send it to me and I'll loan it out to one of my competitors.........

 

 

..........Widder

[Lead Ringer]

Make sure the ejector tip is angled towards the chamber to also act like a spring.

Many replacement ejectors sold today, are not made from spring steel and bend back against the frame block at a 90* angle.

OLG

Yea. I've been down that road. I have been using Good quality springs from TL. They work great in other guns. Just not this one?

Ringer

[Lead Ringer]

I wonder if I could get Sidekick or Tater to use it at the Mississippi sate match this year??

Ringer

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I wonder if I could get Sidekick or tater to use it at the Mississippi sate match this year??

Ringer

 

In Tater's hands, it would probably work prefect. He's BORG with a '97.

 

Now for Sidekick, it might work. He would realize that its a bad '97 and not working right..... but it would take him about 3 stages to figure it out...

 

(p.s. - Sidekick will probably see my comment and put PNut butter in my '97 at the TN State this year. I'll have to keep my eyes on him.)

 

 

..........Widder

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

Dang it Ringer!!! I spent hours adjusting that one when yu wurnt looking!!!!

 

now yu know why I shoot a sxs!!!

[Lead Ringer]

Dang it Ringer!!! I spent hours adjusting that one when yu wurnt looking!!!!

 

now yu know why I shoot a sxs!!!

This hay bailer is one of Miss Behavin's. I'm just the mechanic not the operator😋

I'll stick with the SKB!

Regards,

Ringer

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

well phooey! "fixed" the wrong one!!!!!

[Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L]

Maker-Wright has the right idea. It sounds like you need more spring tension on the right side extractor. I usually used a #6 lead shot under the spring.

Johnny M.

[Lead Ringer]

Maker-Wright has the right idea. It sounds like you need more spring tension on the right side extractor. I usually used a #6 lead shot under the spring.

Johnny M.

I'll give that a try. Thanks Johnny!

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Maker-Wright has the right idea. It sounds like you need more spring tension on the right side extractor. I usually used a #6 lead shot under the spring.

Johnny M.

 

hmmmmmm, I think I will try that also.

 

Thanks JM.

 

p.s. - Johnny.... I really like that NEW 97 I got from you. I liked it so much, that I bought me another one thru a local Cowboy dealer who made a multi order for a few local pards and also managed to order a couple extra. I decided to buy one of the extras and it is smoooooth as silk.

Thanks.

 

 

..........Widder

[Lead Ringer]

Gun is fixed! Thanks to Maker-Wright & Johnny Meadows.

I thought I had enough tension on the right side extractor? It felt pretty firm and held a shell on the bolt face good.

I decided to stiffen it up a bit. I used a #4 shot under the spring. And wallah, gun throws the shells out like a pro👍

Thanks to everybody for your help!

Regards,

Ringer

[Prestidigitator]

I wonder if I could get Sidekick or Tater to use it at the Mississippi sate match this year??

Ringer

 

Note to self: self, do not let shotgun out of sight. end note... hahaha

 

however, i will help you out with trying to get sidekick to use it!

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I was about to suggest some PNut butter but I thought I would not make public some of my best kept secrets of keeping a 97 in top shape...

 

Soooo, you just had to break out the 97 and try a few tricks, didn't ya.....

 

 

..........Widder

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

for tater we shud use mashed taters and gravy!!!!

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Hey Maker-Wright,

 

when some of my dremel tools wear out, like the flapper sanding wheels, I cut the shafts off and save them...just in case.

 

Do you think cutting one of those shafts just a tad longer than the original plunger rod would work sufficiently to RESTORE some of the strength to that right side Extractor?

 

I have a 97 that I dryfire alot and I often think its about to give up the ghost, so to speak, when it comes to maintaining its strong ejection qualities.

 

Anyhow, I'm gona go out in the garage and cut me a shaft just alittle longer than the plunger in my 97 and try it out.

 

I'll let you know how it works.

 

 

.........Widder

[Lead Ringer]

for tater we shud use mashed taters and gravy!!!!

👍👍

[Guest Maker-Wright]

Hey Maker-Wright,

 

when some of my dremel tools wear out, like the flapper sanding wheels, I cut the shafts off and save them...just in case.

 

Do you think cutting one of those shafts just a tad longer than the original plunger rod would work sufficiently to RESTORE some of the strength to that right side Extractor?

 

I have a 97 that I dryfire alot and I often think its about to give up the ghost, so to speak, when it comes to maintaining its strong ejection qualities.

 

Anyhow, I'm gona go out in the garage and cut me a shaft just alittle longer than the plunger in my 97 and try it out.

 

I'll let you know how it works.

 

 

.........Widder

 

Howdy Widder,

 

I'd like to share a perspective with you... seems that some folks want their '97's to eject a shell with enough force to put someone's eye out. I don't believe there are any "free lunches" in that respect. The energy required to build tension between the left extractor and ejector spring, to pop the shell that much harder, has got to come from somewhere... YOU are that "somewhere". In other words, yes, you can adjust an already decently functioning '97 to spit shells harder, but it may mean you'll have to be a bit more deliberate about slamming the slide back, to create the energy needed to pop the shell away from the left extractor. And, subsequently, it may be giving your left extractor tip more friction, and your ejector spring more stress, than any benefit you'll realize in stage times.

 

I set my guns up so; I can put a spent case in the chamber, close the action, slowly draw the slide back/case out of the chamber until the case head is just resting on the ejector. In this condition, I can grasp the slide between a thumb and finger, and pull back with maybe about 5 lbs of force, and the shell will pop plenty far out of the gun (about 3-4 feet). Sure, I could adjust it to spit farther, but I'd rather spare my L. extractor and ejector spring. I'd say, if the gun is reliably getting the shell out of the way quickly enough for you to feed the next one without trouble... let it ride.

 

That being said, if a right extractor is weak and causing problems, it probably won't result in undue wear by bringing the plunger out a bit. If that's the case, and your Dremel shafts are .125", I don't know why your idea wouldn't work.

 

Maker

[Widder, SASS #59054]

The shaft of a dremel bit fits perfect in that hole.

 

I cut a piece approx .030 longer than the factory and tried it out.

 

It works o.k., but I really can't tell any difference in the ejections.

 

QUESTION: why do the factory plungers have a flathead with a groove cut around the diameter?

 

EDIT: Maker, I just saw your post AFTER I posted this comment. Thanks for the info. I understand what you mean.

 

 

..........Widder

[Sidekick]

 

Note to self: self, do not let shotgun out of sight. end note... hahaha

 

however, i will help you out with trying to get sidekick to use it!

Man I have some good friends, I guess I will bring the peanut butter for Widders shotguns cause thats what friends do

[Guest Maker-Wright]

The shaft of a dremel bit fits perfect in that hole.

 

I cut a piece approx .030 longer than the factory and tried it out.

 

It works o.k., but I really can't tell any difference in the ejections.

 

QUESTION: why do the factory plungers have a flathead with a groove cut around the diameter?

 

EDIT: Maker, I just saw your post AFTER I posted this comment. Thanks for the info. I understand what you mean.

 

 

..........Widder

 

This is how I set mine up. I believe it spits plenty far, in relation to force required, without undue wear on the parts.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co9JafxXBHs&feature=youtu.be

 

Maker

[Widder, SASS #59054]

WOW, how about settin mine up......

 

that was very good.

 

I've got a couple that will kick out like that but some of them are more like a foot. I think I've worn em soooo much that a couple of them are about to give up the ghost.

 

Maker, to do that good of a kickout, do you focus on how the sharp edge of the Extractor grips the case rim?

I know that sometimes, the EJECTOR itself can be the gremlin. But sometime, even after putting a new Ejector in, kickouts are minimal and slow. I not only need fast and strong kickouts on my competition 97's, but even my dryfire SG's. A bad dryfire SG can really mess up your timing if it don't function like we need.

 

NOTE: my new 97's are 1st rate with it comes to kickouts. Its just a couple of my IAC's of previous years would probably feel better if the kickouts were more consistent.

 

Have a good evening.

 

 

..........Widder

[Guest Maker-Wright]

WOW, how about settin mine up......

 

that was very good.

 

I've got a couple that will kick out like that but some of them are more like a foot. I think I've worn em soooo much that a couple of them are about to give up the ghost.

 

Maker, to do that good of a kickout, do you focus on how the sharp edge of the Extractor grips the case rim?

I know that sometimes, the EJECTOR itself can be the gremlin. But sometime, even after putting a new Ejector in, kickouts are minimal and slow. I not only need fast and strong kickouts on my competition 97's, but even my dryfire SG's. A bad dryfire SG can really mess up your timing if it don't function like we need.

 

NOTE: my new 97's are 1st rate with it comes to kickouts. Its just a couple of my IAC's of previous years would probably feel better if the kickouts were more consistent.

 

Have a good evening.

 

 

..........Widder

 

Seems like setting things up is a bit of a balancing act between the extractors and the ejector spring...

 

The rim of the shell sits in a semi-circular gullet in the left extractor. Good Left extractor performance seems to come from something more like a crisp "corner" at the gullet/tip junction, rather than a sharp edge or claw. If the gullet is too shallow, or the corner too dull (or the right extractor is a bit weak), then the rim will slip out of the gullet before enough tension has been built up on the ejector, and you'll get weak ejection. Too much gullet depth or hook and the rim will resist popping out of the gullet unless the slide is slammed back. The difference between the two conditions can be just a few strokes with a flat and/or round needle file.

 

Maker

[Wyatt Hurts SASS#72737]

Well you know I go to ask Widder, did using that dremel shaft make a difference in ejection?

 

Wyatt Hurts

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Well you know I go to ask Widder, did using that dremel shaft make a difference in ejection?

 

Wyatt Hurts

 

Dremel Shaft results:

 

I cut the shaft of a Dremel tool accessory to .030 longer than the ejector 'plunger rod'.

 

it fits perfectly in that hole and slides in and out like it was made for it.

 

How does it work? Considering I didn't experiment with different lengths of that Dremel rod, the .030 works just a tad better than the plunger that was in the SG. And the extra .030 doesn't seem to make the Extractor very stiff either. I probably could go .040 and maybe hit the 'sweet spot'.

 

I might try it next week.

 

 

..........Widder

[Kulshan 20262]

Using a shaft without the head will let your right extractor sit a bit farther out on the bolt.