SHOOTIN FOX Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I need to clear something up in my own mind. Recently attended a state level match where the rules stated all SASS rules were in effect. During a sidematch for derringers, noted two things that were out of the normal. Saw a shooter fanning a derringer. Saw a shooter shoot the table, not once , but twice. TO did not call either one. Do the rules apply or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Yes they apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTIN FOX Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Thanks Goody. I thought they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 You can slip hammer a Derringer but not fan it. Depending on the way the match was characterized, some side match infractions carry over to the main match so the shooter that shot the table twice could be eligible for a MDQ before the main match started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTIN FOX Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 What I saw was the thumb being used to fire the first shot and the palm for the second. Fanning in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 You can slip hammer a Derringer but not fan it. Depending on the way the match was characterized, some side match infractions carry over to the main match so the shooter that shot the table twice could be eligible for a MDQ before the main match started.Most side matches are a separate match so a MDQ would not carry over. But this may very. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Dave, SASS # 53158 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Howdy, there was a lot of disagreement a ways back about match DQ forward. The feeling, as I remember it, was that side matches are a somewhat different critter to shoot than the main match. It was felt that DQ forward would affect side match attendance and was largely dropped by a lot of big matches. As a TO at side match day for several annuals and our state match, I am not sure I really agree with that policy. I think if someone shoots the table as you witnessed or tries to shoot his/her foot during speed pistol, they prehaps should be done for the weekend. Kingfish Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 DQs at side matches do NOT carry over and nor should they!! I wouldn't shoot another side match if they did!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 DQs at side matches do NOT carry over and nor should they!! I wouldn't shoot another side match if they did!!! Yep - I'd be sitting on side match day right along with ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 DQs at side matches do NOT carry over and nor should they!! I wouldn't shoot another side match if they did!!! Yep - I'd be sitting on side match day right along with ya. and save me a spectator chair also... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 For a while DQs at side matches carried fwd. Then it was a club sponsor choice whether they did and it looks like now they never carry fwd. When was the last chg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 For a while DQs at side matches carried fwd. Then it was a club sponsor choice whether they did and it looks like now they never carry fwd. When was the last chg? Founders Ranch events were the last holdout for mandatory enforcement of "DQ forward" from sidematches and warmups. After a Buckaroo got MDQd during a father/son team event (loaded revolver fell out of a holster during a run, IIRC), the WB decided to dispense with that concept altogether. That was about 8+ or so years ago...the announcement can likely be found in the archives of the "Territorial Bulletins" under the minutes of the State & Regional MD meetings if one cares to search for the exact date. The "DQ forward" requirement for SASS-sanctioned matches DID have an effect on sidematch participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTIN FOX Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 I appreciate the answers from everyone. The problem I saw was the TO allowed the shooter to continue shooting for time after the infraction and did nothing about it. Should the shooter be D Qd from the side matches or allowed to continue with no Penalty? Not trying to be retroactive, just looking for the actual rule. Fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 There are no "sidematch specific" safety rules separate from those listed in the RO1 "Penalty Overview". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTIN FOX Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Thanks Palewolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 If you wanted to make a DQ carry across all stations on side match day, you would find record keeping to be very hard to do, the way that side matches are normally run as independent events on scattered bays at a match. As widely spread out as some side matches are, and as lightly managed as they sometimes get (they are staffed by last-minute volunteers, usually), even trying to DQ a shooter from taking part in other side matches that day becomes a labor-intensive affair. But I could see it would be very nice if a Match Director / Side Match Director would declare - if you have a safety problem at the SDQ or MDQ severity level, your name is put on a list of shooters no longer allowed to shoot at that particular station the rest of the day. Most side matches have a scoring notebook on which the "leader board" info is kept. One section could record those "DQ'd from this station" I would think this would be the best way to assure we are applying SASS penalties as per the rule book, and not just "laughing them off" and letting shooters continue in a dangerous manner (dangerous per the rules, not just some TO's opinion). Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 DQs at side matches do NOT carry over and nor should they!! I wouldn't shoot another side match if they did!!! +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 and save me a spectator chair also... ..........Widder Me too......couple more chairs and we could get us up a good game of Texas Holdem. On the other hand, I sure as hell don't really want to participate in a sidematch with someone who has shot 1 hole through the table.....let alone 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTIN FOX Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 just to clarify.I was not asking for a match Dq for the main match. I was surprised that the TO allowed the shooters to continue shooting after what I thought was an action that was dangerous and against the SASS rule book. I wanted an answer to the question, Do the safety rules apply to side matches? Fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 And to play the devil's advocate, here, I am not sure how happy the insurance company would be with you letting someone shoot after you have DQd them for a major safety violation. Shootin Fox, as Pale Wolf said above, there are no side match specific rules. However, the ROI handbook plainly states a round that strikes the ground or a prop with in 5 feet of the shooter is a DQ. I interpret that as a DQ from the side match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Many years ago, a very good shooter had an AD while handling a derringer in their motorhome @ EOT in California. That shooter was DQ'd from shooting EOT. Probably between 1999-2001. Might be one reason for the DQ forward rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 just to clarify.I was not asking for a match Dq for the main match. I was surprised that the TO allowed the shooters to continue shooting after what I thought was an action that was dangerous and against the SASS rule book. I wanted an answer to the question, Do the safety rules apply to side matches? Fox Should they. YesDo some MDs and clubs vary. Yes Was this a TO or MD decision? Might be the MD never knew it happened and the TO for that side event didn't realize. I MDQed a side match once. While that stank IF the MDQ had carried over I would still shoot side matches when available. Over the years more good has come out of them than bad for Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 DQs at side matches do NOT carry over and nor should they!! I wouldn't shoot another side match if they did!!! Yep - I'd be sitting on side match day right along with ya. and save me a spectator chair also... ..........Widder Me too......couple more chairs and we could get us up a good game of Texas Holdem. On the other hand, I sure as hell don't really want to participate in a sidematch with someone who has shot 1 hole through the table.....let alone 2. I'll bring the cigars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I'll bring the cigars. Cigars...and Ice Cream???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 First hole in the table should have been a DQ. The second hole in the table, the shooter should have been escorted from the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 DON'T forget the wine!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Might be the MD never knew it happened and the TO for that side event didn't realize. Guessing this is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 If I bring the pie can I come too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 If I bring the pie can I come too? Yes!!!! but enuff for all of us!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calico Mary Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 whut kinda pie?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Pie...Ice Cream...Cigars... Now we'z talkin!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 A 2 time National Champion Key Lime Pie!!!! MMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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