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France Airliner Crash


Aunt Jen

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Concealed carry permits add nothing to the ability to help with aneurysms or any other medical issue. Not every event in the world invokes firearms issues......

"Whatever happened, I think it makes a case for removing high security door"

 

Replace the high security doors with standard doors that would stop a quick rush by a terrorist into the cockpit but allow cabin crew and passengers to force their way in an emergency, like a multiple bird strike or a collision with a small plane against the cockpit windows that might injure or incapacitate the cockpit crew.

 

Allowing the passengers to be armed would serve as a security replacement for a door the pilot may not be able to force open from the cabin. "Is that man in the Stetson just a Texas oilman or is he a SASS member who might shoot the shia out of me if I try to hijack the plane?"

 

Besides, ain'tcha ever seen a western where someone cauterizes a bad bleeding injury by prying the bullet outta a round of ammo, sprinkling the gunpowder over the injury and igniting it? :)

 

Snidely Whiplash

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The co-pilot thought to have deliberately crashed his Germanwings jet into the French Alps, killing all 150 aboard, kept secret the fact that he was written off sick on the day, German prosecutors say

Düsseldorf (Germany) (AFP) - The co-pilot thought to have deliberately crashed his Germanwings jet into the French Alps, killing all 150 aboard, kept secret the fact that he was written off sick on the day, German prosecutors said Friday.

Searches of his homes had netted "medical documents that suggest an existing illness and appropriate medical treatment", including "torn-up and current sick leave notices, among them one covering the day of the crash", they said.

This "backs up the suspicion" that the co-pilot, who reportedly suffered from severe depression, "hid his illness from his employer and his colleagues", said prosecutors in the western city of Duesseldorf in a statement.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-germanwings-co-pilot-hid-sick-leave-note-for-day-of-crash-prosecutors-2015-3#ixzz3VaeZfqTq

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Lufthansa has now said the policy of only one person on the flight deck is changed. Two bodies in the cockpit from now on. Day late and a dollar short.

The US airlines have had it right. Maybe America isn't as bad and incompetent as the rest of the world seems to think.

At least those of you who must fly on foreign carriers will have an added measure of security now.

A far as the reinforced cockpit doors, I believe they're a good idea and should remain imho.

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I turnedthe news of when they started discussing the possibility of ground controllers over riding the systems of the aircraft and flying it remotely, like a drone. Oy.

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I personally think that idea needs some more consideration. There are some good points about it, but there are a lot of negative points to that also. I think I will just stay home or drive where I need to go.

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If you ask me (and nobody did), I think all aircrew members need to come under something like AFR 35-99, Human Reliability. Whether somebody was suffering from mental illness, domestic problems, etc., they would be evaluatied periodically and relieved of any duties involving critical systems, including ballistic missile/nuke weapons control or maintenance. This character apparently interrupted his flight training several times due to "problems". Of course, the unions would raise cain over something like that, not to mention where are they going to get qualified MD's who can detect problems without grounding someone who really is OK. As far as I am concerned, a flight attendent on the flight deck may or may not be able to stop someone bent on suicide by plane, unless armed! But, then this presumes both persons in the cockpit be armed, which could result in a close-range shootout! Not good! Maybe they could come up with a means of overriding the cockpit lockout control, but one that could be overriden by a code that changes every day, with the chief flight attendent being briefed on the code prior to flight. The code could be set up with a random number generator that couldn't be easily compromised...no connection to outside hacking.

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I turnedthe news of when they started discussing the possibility of ground controllers over riding the systems of the aircraft and flying it remotely, like a drone. Oy.

 

+ oy

 

So a ground controller could fly the aircraft remotely into his tower as a way to commit suicide. Or his wife is on a plane and they aren't getting along...

 

Sounds like they really should have a government agency that has backup control of all aircraft and the authority to assume control in case..... of anything they thinks sounds or looks.... hmmm...... looks bad.

 

Jeez, those newspeople need to get a life as much as forum people do.

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Any electronic or computer system to externally control a plane could be hacked, with, then, any number if related planes being remotely crashed into other planes, buildings....

 

Artificial Intelligence on an individual plane could also be hacked, but then only 1 to crash into same.

 

A human as final on-site control..., same as AI, only no hacking needed. Only threats or other motivation.

 

Inboard, individual AI seems best to me, but who knows.

 

I am not convinced copilot crashed everyone because of such a severe mental illness/depression that was also so mild others didn't think significant to ground him, keep him away from planes. (im firmer therapist who worked w felons.) Yes, such can be hidden, but rare to do that well.

 

More common is a Press that gets stories half wrong, a company that seeks to divert blame from liability, a police force that doesn't want to tip the nature of investigation to bad guys, and/or a nefarious group that finds a way to pressure a pilot.

 

I'm not buying the lone, depressed pilot thing.

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FAA policy states that two crew members need to be in the cockpit at all times to address this very issue. If a pilot or co-pilot has to use the latrine, a flight attendant enters the cockpit.

 

The international flight organization does not have this standard.

 

 

FAA policy states that two crew members need to be in the cockpit at all times to address this very issue. If a pilot or co-pilot has to use the latrine, a flight attendant enters the cockpit.

 

The international flight organization does not have this standard.

 

 

FAA policy states that two crew members need to be in the cockpit at all times to address this very issue. If a pilot or co-pilot has to use the latrine, a flight attendant enters the cockpit.

 

The international flight organization does not have this standard.

 

 

I worked in an airline centered community with a lot of acquaintances who were either pilots or flight attendants. I was told several times that if a plane was being repositioned it was not unusual once the plane was in the air for a flight attendant to take the controls, so that in an emergency she could a least sustain straight and level flight and operate the radio. At least that was the excuse they gave

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Having a flight attendant in the cockpit with pilot is better than nothing, but a clueless FA would be worthless if the lone pilot put the plane on autopilot for a crash course and then resisted the FA attempts. Second person in cockpit should be qualified to fly the plane (to some degree) and know what all the buttons and switches do and could correct a suicidal setup.

 

Amazing that conclusions to the accident have surfaced in just a few days where it has taken months/years for investigators to determine other airline crashes.

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Also, with respect to flight attendants, it could well be that a pilot could easily incapacitate a flight attendant.

 

(some FAs are former soldiers....or other...but many are not so physically inclined.)

 

Some FAs have pilot certifications, but not most.

 

Overall getting him/her up there better than nothing, but it cannot be the best solution.

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Issued to every willing passenger on board. No lock or at most, a cheap lock on pilots door. Affordable, doable and effective. Put the how-to operations of Liberator into the preflight speel, along with how to use your seat-belt. Put some of the responsibility and power back to the customer/passenger.

 

Just a thought.

 

 

M1942 Liberator pistol

 

M1942_liberator.jpg

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2A supporter or not... Putting guns on planes is a horrible idea.

 

Don't think so?

 

Shoot just one fish in that barrel... Without hitting the outer walls of the aircraft and decompressing the whole thing.

 

Baaaaaad idea.

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Amazing that conclusions to the accident have surfaced in just a few days where it has taken months/years for investigators to determine other airline crashes.

 

That is because it was NO ACCIDENT

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2A supporter or not... Putting guns on planes is a horrible idea.

 

Don't think so?

 

Shoot just one fish in that barrel... Without hitting the outer walls of the aircraft and decompressing the whole thing.

 

Baaaaaad idea.

Decompression (an thus causing extensive human harm) of entire plane by one bullet hole? I thought that was disproven a long time ago. But I could be mistaken.

 

now shoot the one and only fish flying the plane could be rather bad,

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2A supporter or not... Putting guns on planes is a horrible idea.

 

Don't think so?

 

Shoot just one fish in that barrel... Without hitting the outer walls of the aircraft and decompressing the whole thing.

 

Baaaaaad idea.

 

Yup - Air Marshals or a trained pilot is a 'maybe' at best. Tasers or similar is a better solution (but obviously limited range)..maybe. Won't pierce the fuselage.

 

but I digress - that wouldn't have helped with the door situation - heard the pilot tried using an onboard axe in an effort to penetrate the door.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Decompression (an thus causing extensive human harm) of entire plane by one bullet hole? I thought that was disproven a long time ago. But I could be mistaken.

 

now shoot the one and only fish flying the plane could be rather bad,

 

Yeah. You have to take out a pretty good hunk of fuselage for a catastrophic decompression. But the chance of damaging wiring, computers or hydraulics is always a possiblilty, even with redundant systems.
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UB is correct a bullet hole will not cause rapid decompression in an aircraft , there are pressure relief valves on craft now that vent the cabin now

 

A blown out window would decompress pretty fast until the pressure neutralized and it still would not be enough to suck a fat guy out ( auric gold finger ). 02 masks would drop and the flight crew wos just fast decent under 14,000 ft

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UB is correct a bullet hole will not cause rapid decompression in an aircraft , there are pressure relief valves on craft now that vent the cabin now

 

A blown out window would decompress pretty fast until the pressure neutralized and it still would not be enough to suck a fat guy out ( auric gold finger ). 02 masks would drop and the flight crew wos just fast decent under 14,000 ft or not decent until the bad guy(s) are out of commission

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Yeah. You have to take out a pretty good hunk of fuselage for a catastrophic decompression. But the chance of damaging wiring, computers or hydraulics is always a possiblilty, even with redundant systems.

 

Yep could (stray bullets hitting electronics) wipe out the coffee maker but I would think the probability of coming out unharmed (entire plane) with a stray shot scenerio would be way better than riding the plane out with the terriorist/mental case in control.

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From what is coming out about the co-pilot's personal problems, if the doctor and others had reported this situation and frame of mind to the airline (and, IF the airline would pay any attention to it and take action), this could have been avoided! A Human Reliabiltiy program such as the old Air Force AFR35-99 would have immediately grounded him, at least temporarily, until he could have been further evaluated for continued flight capability or permanent grounding. Easier said than done, perhaps, but in this country, FAA regs could mandate reporting of such problems or the doctors or others could face prosecution!

 

Unfortunately, even an exam isn't foolproof! In the case of a theater shooting, the perp had been under psyciatric care, and the doctor even reported it to some "authorities"...who failed to follow up. We are so busy ensuring everyone's rights to privacy and that should be the case...up to a point. Beyond that point, where the lives of others may be in danger, individual privacy needs to be compromised. Of course, the problem that comes up is if a doctor asks a patient if they have guns. Barring other indications, possession of guns is not the doctor's business. Oh, and, boys or girls, if you are going to break up with your significant other, please be aware if they seem to have emotional problems and if they are in a position to harm themselves and others, and do it gently! Apart from all that...sadly, s#i+ happens, and there ain't much that can be done. :(

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