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France Airliner Crash


Aunt Jen

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I'm sitting here....wondering if I'm hearing the news right:

 

The pilot left the cockpit

 

The copilot put the plane into a rapid descent

 

Sound in voice recorder shows pilot knocking on door to get back in, but can't get in

 

Copilot breathing is calm and normal all the way into a crash, not a word spoken from him, people in cabin screaming.

 

Investigation is not done, but it wouldn't be the first time crew fell asleep, or where a crew purposefully crashed.

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Could copilot have had stroke? Other med concern? Copilot suicide? Copilot coerced? copilot fell asleep?

 

We don't know.

 

But with these kinds of things, stuff like #370 disappearing (stolen?)...security difficulties at airports....

 

I do enjoy flight, but it must also be safe.

 

CAN convert airliners to automation or remote control, but those systems can be hacked same as any other computer system, which could cause MANY crashes, so if they go auto or cloud control pilot systems, I'm not going on them any more..

 

Just driving is looking better.

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Copilot INEXPERIENCE of 630 hours is NOT a factor, as

 

Any even private pilot could hold it steady in flight with no training

 

Those guys in the cockpit are generally very good---LONG BEFORE they even get hired

 

Copilot was not asking for help or letting pilot in

 

Looks like.

Terrorism

Suicide or

Medical issue of copilot

 

So far

 

From what they are saying on tv

 

And we all know tv always get it right. ??

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The local blowhard on the radio this morning gave the co-pilot's name, and it's not the Middle Eastern name everyone kind of assumed.

 

I'm with the Marshal. I'll wait for the report.

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French prosecutor is saying the crash was deliberate.

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Wait for the official report?

 

Don't expect them to learn much from the autopsy of the copilot.

 

I got $20 says they push the "pilot error" button. Twice.

 

No matter how hot a pilots those two boys were, and no matter how much money the airline blew on their training, they still were just two humans. And humans often take their responsibilities too lightly, especially when they are doing a job they think they can do blindfolded.

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French prosecutor is saying the crash was deliberate.

 

Guess the news leak about the copilots normal breathing was probably just normal reporting... fleshing out the news so to speak.

 

The prosecutor is certainly a better bet than the media.

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Wait for the official report?

 

Don't expect them to learn much from the autopsy of the copilot.

 

I got $20 says they push the "pilot error" button. Twice.

 

No matter how hot a pilots those two boys were, and no matter how much money the airline blew on their training, they still were just two humans. And humans often take their responsibilities too lightly, especially when they are doing a job they think they can do blindfolded.

There was no autopsy of the copilot, if you have ever been to the site of a crash lke this and I've been to two of them then you will know there was more than likely no body to autopsy
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There was no autopsy of the copilot, if you have ever been to the site of a crash lke this and I've been to two of them then you will know there was more than likely no body to autopsy

+1

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The news said that the cockpit voice recorder showed the copilot's breathing, that he never said a word, just put the plane into the sharp descent and breathed normally.

 

Now they're saying he put it into the dive deliberately.

 

I was just wondering possibilities if a medical issue (stroke?) or something could result in placing plane into a dive (button pushed, they said, fwiw) and then not saying anything...

 

But it's unlikely, I fear, that a med issue would rewsult in the copilot pushing a button to dive the plane.

 

So, from what they're sharing, it's looking more like a deliberate act, to me. Motive? We could only guess so far.

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There have been a few suicide by plane incidents in the past. This may be one.

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Watching the press conference with the Lufthansa CEO.

It gives me some small comfort to see that the German news media seems to be as stupid as ours.

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There was no autopsy of the copilot, if you have ever been to the site of a crash lke this and I've been to two of them then you will know there was more than likely no body to autopsy

 

There usually isn't until they find enough to autopsy, and it's news that's breaking today, right? They probably just got the site secured if it's on land.

 

In fact, the airline I worked for many, many years ago called for volunteers to help at a crash site when a DC9 landed short in the city where I worked.

 

The post was tongue in cheek so to speak.

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Is it just me, or does it seem really dumb to have a door that you can't break / open from the outside & then not make sure there are at least TWO people inside the cockpit at ALL times?

 

I mean really, with just one person & the chance of medical, mental, suicidal, terror etc. wouldn't it just be smart to have TWO people to handle whatever the problem is?

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Is it just me, or does it seem really dumb to have a door that you can't break / open from the outside & then not make sure there are at least TWO people inside the cockpit at ALL times?

 

I mean really, with just one person & the chance of medical, mental, suicidal, terror etc. wouldn't it just be smart to have TWO people to handle whatever the problem is?

That was the topic a breakfast this morning. There is going to be an even greater shortage of airline pilots as now there will have to be at least three on board at all times with at least 2 in the cockpit.

 

I am actually suprised that there hasen't been a talking head on the news calling for this change to be immediately implemented.

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FAA policy states that two crew members need to be in the cockpit at all times to address this very issue. If a pilot or co-pilot has to use the latrine, a flight attendant enters the cockpit.

 

The international flight organization does not have this standard.

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Is it just me, or does it seem really dumb to have a door that you can't break / open from the outside & then not make sure there are at least TWO people inside the cockpit at ALL times?

 

I mean really, with just one person & the chance of medical, mental, suicidal, terror etc. wouldn't it just be smart to have TWO people to handle whatever the problem is?

Yep, I guess our FAA has it right! The Europeans don't!

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Apparently the Germans had the "always two in the cockpit" rule but did away with it some time ago. They said they are re-evaluating that now. Duh.

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How the hell do they know the co-pilot was "breathing normally" prior to the impact anyway?

 

'Nuther suspicious thing: The news said they found the "box" the flight data recorder should have

been in, but it was "empty" ???? Mebbe the flight data recorder proper wasn't even ON the plane????

 

Lots of unexplained stuff there...Probly a lot of it never will be for sure.

 

I'll wager there ain't enough left of anyone on that plane to do any kind of id or autopsy on.

Maybe they'll find some teeth....

 

Straight in to a mountainside at probly 300-400 mph = little bitty pieces and a lot of red mush..

 

Bp

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Guy went nutz. Took himself out and everyone else.

Nothing suspicious as far as I'm concerned.

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My guess is the co-pilot suffered a medical event - an aneurysm or epileptic fit which ended in paralysis. During the medical misfortune he accidentally hit the lockout button that prevents people outside the cockpit from getting in with an access code, and it was either on manual control or his movements took the plane off auto-pilot and he slumped into the control wheel, causing the plane to descend.

 

Usually terrorists want publicity and leave behind some document claiming responsibility and announcing their sick cause. I doubt it was suicide because I haven't seen any reports yet of "yes, he was rather depressed lately...", or "we all knew he was wacko, I never understood why they let him fly" interviews.

 

Whatever happened, I think it makes a case for removing high security door and allowing every passenger with a concealed carry permit to fly armed - providing they switch to Glasser Safety Slugs or an equivalent sky marshall approved ammunition. Passengers could assist the crew with medical or terrorist emergencies.

 

Snidely Whiplash

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My guess is the co-pilot suffered a medical event - an aneurysm or epileptic fit which ended in paralysis. During the medical misfortune he accidentally hit the lockout button that prevents people outside the cockpit from getting in with an access code, and it was either on manual control or his movements took the plane off auto-pilot and he slumped into the control wheel, causing the plane to descend.

 

Usually terrorists want publicity and leave behind some document claiming responsibility and announcing their sick cause. I doubt it was suicide because I haven't seen any reports yet of "yes, he was rather depressed lately...", or "we all knew he was wacko, I never understood why they let him fly" interviews.

 

Whatever happened, I think it makes a case for removing high security door and allowing every passenger with a concealed carry permit to fly armed - providing they switch to Glasser Safety Slugs or an equivalent sky marshall approved ammunition. Passengers could assist the crew with medical or terrorist emergencies.

 

Snidely Whiplash

Concealed carry permits add nothing to the ability to help with aneurysms or any other medical issue. Not every event in the world invokes firearms issues......

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Okay. They tell us the committed suicide ad no terror connection.

 

But pattern recognition is an old talent: something doesn't fit.

 

I find it unlikely the copilot would wanna commit suicide in a way that would kill everyone else there----yet not say ONE WORD on the cockpit recorder.

 

It's almost like he wanted to make certain he left no information.

 

I have no data to this possibility, yet I find myself wondering if there could br a reason that would fit these "facts" we're told.

 

Not even speculation, axquestion in my pattern-seeking mind: what if someone else wanted him to crash Tge plane (a terrorist)? Motivation could have been provided via threats to loved ones, etc.

 

That could explain why no "suicide statement," as it were. Maybe. As if instructed, lest loved-ones be killed.

 

I HAVE NO DATA for that. But if I were an investigator, I'd wonder, and I'd restrict the release of this investigation so as not to impair the investigation.

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If a terrorist organization was involved they would have claimed responsibility by now.

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My guess is the co-pilot suffered a medical event - an aneurysm or epileptic fit which ended in paralysis. During the medical misfortune he accidentally hit the lockout button that prevents people outside the cockpit from getting in with an access code, and it was either on manual control or his movements took the plane off auto-pilot and he slumped into the control wheel, causing the plane to descend.

 

Usually terrorists want publicity and leave behind some document claiming responsibility and announcing their sick cause. I doubt it was suicide because I haven't seen any reports yet of "yes, he was rather depressed lately...", or "we all knew he was wacko, I never understood why they let him fly" interviews.

 

Whatever happened, I think it makes a case for removing high security door and allowing every passenger with a concealed carry permit to fly armed - providing they switch to Glasser Safety Slugs or an equivalent sky marshall approved ammunition. Passengers could assist the crew with medical or terrorist emergencies.

 

Snidely Whiplash

Nope. Slumping over the control would cause a steep dive. Very steep.This was a controlled descent, well within the safe parameters for that aircraft, according to the radar folks.

I think this is simply a case of a mentally ill guy doing something very very bad. Sometimes they leave no indication before hand.

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Nope. They said copilot selected 100 foot altitude on purpose on the autopilot and also locked the pilot out.

 

Also, a terror group may Well have claimed responsibility but not publicly:::

 

Example: communicated privately, "This is a warming. Release these prisoners, or we will do it again," just an example.

 

Guessing what a terror group would do, without knowing the group, or their goal, is unlikely.

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