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Aunt Jen

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Here is a video on the RCBS lockout die. Again, this die will lock up if powder charge is missing or doubled. Not all powder check dies actually lock up the press. He's showing it on a Dillon 650 that has 5 die stations. On the 4 station 550B, using the lockout die means you have to seat and crimp with one die in station 4.

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Jen,

At Winter Range I went by www.uniquetek.com who has a tent every year. They have this cool little flashlight for ten bucks, came with a rubber stopper and fits perfectly in the center hole of the toolhead of a 550 or 650 press. Lights up everything. They're in AZ so shipping to you shouldn't be too bad or...you could go to Walmart, or the home store and get a little LED light using duck tape or something to 'build' you a stopper. Using Trailboss like you are, its easy to see the level of powder AND its impossible to double charge a case, TB takes up too much space which is one reason I use it. (that same feature also eliminates the incinsistent velocity some see with other powders)

 

With some powders a variation of +/- .1gr (1/10 grain) is equal to a velocity change of 25-50fps depending on the cartridge and powder. With Trailboss even .3gr barely has a measurable effect on velocity. Trailboss meters very well through my Dillon measures. at your load you should be using the large charge bar for best consistency. One is almost square (large) and the other is half as thick with a spacer. (small)

 

The difference in case and bullet can add up to 5gr; that round #50 is probably ok but always err on the safe side! Occasionally I have pulled bullets by the bucket (a whole run of 44/40) because I got distracted and thought I might have seated a bullet on a case with no powder. Weighing was unrevealing so out came the bullet puller. 300 rounds later, nothing amiss was found!! (but I felt a lot better!)

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Tks all!

 

Yes, I like the bulky nature of TB, and I learn a lot from these conversations. Tks for data.

 

Truly, there is value in paying attention, no distractions, during reloading.

 

Will look for a light. :)

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Not wanting to start an argument in here but it gets to me when folks talk about double charging a case using a 550. I use Titegroup and that being a very small structured powder it'd be easy and "almost" unnoticeable if a case did get double charged when loaded at recommended minimums. But, unless you really mess up BIG time it's near to, but not, impossible to do on a 550. You can raise the handle to almost 3/4's of all the way up from the full down stroke before the charge bar moves over far enough to pick up another charge of powder. I use 3 die sets.

Station 1...De-prime, resize, re-prime. Station 2...bell the case, drop the powder charge. Station 3...seat and crimp bullet. I don't use Station 4. In order to drop a double charge you would be de-priming, resizing and re-priming a case that was already done, belling and charging a case that was already belled and charged, and re-seating and re-crimping a case and bullet that was already seated and crimped. If I get distracted for any reason I leave everything as it was before the distraction. Then before continuing I look to see what has already been done. If there's a seated and crimped bullet, then I know it's ok to proceed since everything before that had been done when I pulled the handle down and let it raise all the way up. If the handle is all the way down, then I know what's been done. About the only thing I do if the handle is up, is bump the handle forward again to insure I had seated the new primer. I don't know because I've never used one, but I'm guessing a 650 works pretty much the same.

And Jen, I'm not saying as a new to reloading person it's a waste of time checking VERY often what you're doing. I'm just saying that once you get used to it on a 550 and using TB powder, the 550 will tell you what's been done just by looking at what you've already done.

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Aunt Jen I've been thinking of buying a device that places sensors to check if you indexed on a 550 fully moved the lever up and down to make sure you primed and got the full powder load and didn't short stroke it. I also have a set of led lights mounted on the backside of the arm in front and down threw the center hole of the toolhead. They very bright just what I needed in the toolbox of my fifth wheel. I think the reloading computer will help with my quality of reloads as I've been plagued in the past. I got the lights off ebay and the reloading computer is also found out on eBay.

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Hi. I have been talking to some reloaders. And I have come to believe there was NO double charge, only my concern.

 

As stated above, my concern stemmed from caution over possible detraction from taking Tge precaution to weigh powder a few times.

 

But it's no problem.

 

Tks for concern

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Howdy: Good for You...

 

If you double charged your XX load with "Trail Boss" You really should have noticed as most .45 colt cases with double the load you state will overflow...

 

Good luck and Good Shooting...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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I plan a test firing today of all 50, including the one I feared could be double. It is important I learn to understand/interpret/trust both my Dillon 550 and the process.

 

I have learned that I could not have double loaded a .45 round with TB, and NO case looked full or over flowing.

 

Newby concerns. Learning.

 

I'll :) take and wear my motorcycle clothes---helmet, gloves, jacket--in addition to eye and ear wear. I'll chat with the guys there, but HEY: these are my FIRST, and no one was here but me, so.....

 

I'd rather look funny and thought crazy than be injured. :)

 

Lol

 

Rather, those guys will enjoy it and watch.

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There is some comfort knowing a bit more about the double charging deal....

 

There are a lot of bulky powders, TB being only one of them, that have start loads greater than half the USEFUL CAPACITY of the case. Useful capacity is the space inside the case after the bullet is seated. And what that means is....

 

Double charges of all those bulky powders are obvious even when they don't overflow the case. The bullet won't seat because there isn't room for it. You feel an obvious resistance moving the lever and more often it won't go all the way.

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BTW, the Lee "Modern Reloading" 2nd edition lists the starting load for 160(L) of TB as being 1.52cc in volume. It also lists the useful capacity of the 45LC case as 1.92cc. Ain't no way to get 2.82cc of TB AND the base of a 170gr bullet into 1.92cc of space. Actually, with your listed charge being about 1.41cc, the most extra powder room under that 170(L) is less that the manual lists for their published max load.

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I plan a test firing today of all 50, including the one I feared could be double. It is important I learn to understand/interpret/trust both my Dillon 550 and the process.

 

.......

What does worry me is that one you said was 5gr heavy. Only about 1 grain of that can be powder (unless the bullet didn't seat fully and that'd be obvious) and that's doubtful with TB. The bullet, case and primer are what's left of the usual things that could contribute that extra 5 grains.

 

Commercial cast bullets really have almost no way to be overweight. Almost all the casting flaws drop bullets that're underweight. And casting problems that would produce bullets 5 grains heavier are visually obvious. The probability that 5 grains comes from the bullet is slim. Cases don't usually vary that much either, at least not pistol cases. 45LCs are around 115 with the primer iirc.

 

I'd be driven to pull that round apart just to find out it's story. If not, then at least mark the case to see if it's really out of the norm in weight.

 

Actually, I shouldn't have said, "worry". It should have been "puzzled". I'm one who loves puzzles.

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"One of them is 5 gn heavier than the mean, so I MARKED IT,"

 

 

I may have missed it in another post but are you weighing the case with the powder in it to determine how much powder is in it ? Subtracting the average weight of a case is not accurate enough to verify your powder charge. Dump the powder out of the case onto the scale to verify the charge weight. You may sometime use a very fast powder that will not allow a 0.5 grain overcharge and still be safe. Powder is the one thing you must be very conscientious with. If I misinterpreted your statement, my apologies.

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I have weighed 50 cases made by Fedral that varied by a little over 7 grains from high to low in .45 Colt.

 

Your Mileage may vary ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Howdy Jen

 

You remind me of myself. As a self taught reloader, I had to figure everything out for myself from books. Your caution is admirable. Much to be preferred than the guy who just starts cranking away at the press without much thought.

 

With time and experience you will become more confident and not need to weigh quite so many of your rounds. One thing you may not have been told: try to always pull the handle of your press the same way every time. Same amount of force, same speed, etc. Most presses are a little bit sensitive to vibration. How much the press is whacked or vibrates can generate some variation in how much powder the press portions out every time. So develop your own technique, and stick to it.

 

If it wuz me, I would not fire that questionable round. You will never really know what is in there until you pull the bullet and weigh the charge. Always remember that we are dealing with explosives here. If you suspect something is not right with a particular round, set it aside and don't shoot it. It ain't worth having an accident to save one round.

 

And these guys are correct. Weighing loaded rounds is not a reliable way to determine any variation in powder. Too much variation in bullet weights that might mask the actual weight of the powder. Just pull the bullet and move on;.

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I have weighed 50 cases made by Fedral that varied by a little over 7 grains from high to low in .45 Colt.

 

Your Mileage may vary ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

You're right, everyone's mileage may vary (and usually does). Thanks for putting some numbers out. Your work inspired me to see how my cowboy brass compared to yours. So I ran down to the shop and pulled out a tray of brass. It was the top tray in the stack for .45lc. Turns out there were 159 cases in that tray. They ranged from 114.0gr to 114.7gr AFTER one case that weighed 110.3 showed up and was removed. All my .45 brass is Starline and came from a 500 lot purchase many years ago. The odd-ball-out case wasn't Starline and was obviously one that came from pickup brass from a match. Glad I weighed that lot.

 

You're absolutely right that some people won't benefit from every technique or trick out there. The safety check by weight of everyone's reloading runs really won't work for people with brass like yours. Before I realized how easy weighing stuff can be thanks to the digital scales, the reason stuff got weighed in my shop was to get the most out of the money I was spending on reloading components. The balance scale came out whenever a new lot of brass or bullets showed up. I wanted to know for sure the quality of the stuff being bought. Of course, with the beam scale, patience didn't last much beyond 20-30 samples. Along the way a number of big name products didn't pass muster when compared with others brands. It's a shame but you don't always get what you pay for. And weight tests is one good way to help improve quality and safety, and it's easier thanks to people sharing info and the existence of digital scales.

 

Sad thing about the internet is that so many topics aren't sound byte simple. Seldom does any poster have the time to explain every detail about every technique. But good thing is that with luck, there will be "enough" discussion to surface important contingencies.

 

Years back, IMI brass and bullets were available in bulk. The price was really good compared to the Hot Trick cases and target bullets the experts recommended. I figured I'd buy the hot stuff when I shot Expert. About the same time, I heard about weighing and sorting and such. Darned if the IMI (might have been TTZ to begin with) brass was VERY uniform. And then the bullets tested as good as the higher priced hot tip magic. In fact the uniformity beat everything it was compared to. Wish they were still available. Wish they'd made 45lc too. Really wish they'd made 44-40 !

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And these guys are correct. Weighing loaded rounds is not a reliable way to determine any variation in powder. Too much variation in bullet weights that might mask the actual weight of the powder. Just pull the bullet and move on;.

 

If it wuz me, I would not fire that questionable round

As you say, however, it would be a good idea to not shoot that cartridge.

 

The weight test only points out cartridges that experienced shooters feel it sensible to inspect further. Thanks to her test she has knowledge of something amiss.

 

Jen, taking the time to check the uniformity of the bullets you're buying tells you something about the quality of them. Finding out how much your cases vary in weight does that too. You don't need the quality for SASS matches, but having quality enough for the quality assurance weighing of reloading runs makes sense. It sounded like you discovered one cartridge out of the lot. Was the test a waste of time? Knowing the variance of your bullets and cases should suggest how widely the cartridges could vary. And whether or not you think you're wasting your time. How long does it take to do a walk around? Wasted time?

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Hello all,

 

Unfortunately, I read your recent comments AFTER I got back from the range, today, and did my test firing.

 

Fortunately, it did not matter. Today.

 

All 50 went off perfectly. No issues with stronger or weaker loads, even the one I feared could be double loaded. All of them fired the same, and fine. :)

 

Amazing! :)

 

THANK YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

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Congratulations!! it is quite something isn't it? I am much like Driftwood and yourself being self taught/did a lot of reading. Both on here and other forums and books. I started off with a single stage press a few years back, then switched to the 550. The first time I was loading on the 550, my experience mirrors yours with 1 exception. I didn't weigh the bullets. Otherwise, I was constantly pulling cases to measure the powder throw to make sure it stayed consistent. That is mostly because prior to that I was weighing and measuring every load I did. Thats because I was mostly reloading rifle rounds at the beginning.

 

Good stuff though, glad everything went boom with no problems for ya, even that slightly heavier bullet!

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Aunt Jen, another alternative, of course, is black powder, since a normal load will almost fill the case with just enough room to seat and compress/crimp the bullet. Now, this comes from a guy that does half of his reloading off the press. I hand prime all my cases, hand dip all my loads and place the bullet in the belled case by hand! Yes, it's slower, but for what little I reload, the difference doesn't matter. Besides, like many others, I really enjoy the calming effect of reloading.

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