Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Gun Show Booty


Aunt Jen

Recommended Posts

I may go to a gun show soon.

 

I'm taking up reloading. For the .45s, I'm interested in Lone Star 170s, Trail Boss, federal primers.

 

But for BP for Sharos .45-70, if I do, what primers, powders, brass recommend? I'd get 525 or so bullets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the bullets the shape and weight is what is most important, not who made them, though some are better than others.

 

I haven't been to a gun show in years, way back when I used to go I never found anything at prices much better than what I could find else where that made it worth paying to get in, having to park a ways away, and fight the crowd once I got in. You mileage may vary. I am finding the older I get the more I dislike crowds, cowboy matches excepted.

 

Have fun, lots to see and lots of people to talk to, but just like here, opinions will vary on just about any subject.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tks....

 

Griz, what shape is best for long range accuracy?

 

I have no idea :D I'm sure someone else will chime in who has experience with long range and a sharps. How long til you get to take it home?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The sharps? Keri at Taylor's said "Latter March.". I am eager to get it. I sent her an email and asked for a certain set if sites, also and asked they be installed. No response yet, some 3-4 days or so. I'll check back next week.

 

I'm eager to get it. I'll take it out to the range and test it.

 

Always live your comments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the Sharps. 405 gr lead bullets. Starline brass. CCI large rifle primers.

Exactly my recipie.... I use CCI or Federal primers and a 405 gr bullet. Trail Boss, Varget, or BP for my 45/70. 525gr seems a bit heavy to me.

 

Gun shows are fun.... I go to the local ones around here every once in a while but as Grizzly mentioned, most things you see there are priced high. I'd go in with an open mind though.... Most likely you won't find the exact powder you're looking for so have a few backups you may want to try. Especially Trail Boss. Not impossible but hard to find right now for some reason.

There are several powders that work well in .45 and 45/70.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tks. Are primers and powders for .45 the sane ones used in .45-70?

 

On bullets.,I would rather shoot 405 from the .45-70?Sharps, but I good pard at WR, old # 4, told me Tge 1-18 twist in Sharps may well not stabilize tge 405 as well as a heavier bullet.

 

??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tks. Are primers and powders for .45 the sane ones used in .45-70? Primers are a different size. You want Large Pistol primers for .45 and Large RIFLE primers for the .45-70. You can use the same powder, just make real sure you look up the right load data for the right bullet.

 

On bullets.,I would rather shoot 405 from the .45-70?Sharps, but I good pard at WR, old # 4, told me Tge 1-18 twist in Sharps may well not stabilize tge 405 as well as a heavier bullet.

 

I had fine results with a 405 gr bullet out of the Pedersoli Sharps I had, I believe that had the same twist rate.

??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tks. Are primers and powders for .45 the sane ones used in .45-70?

On bullets.,I would rather shoot 405 from the .45-70?Sharps, but I good pard at WR, old # 4, told me Tge 1-18 twist in Sharps may well not stabilize tge 405 as well as a heavier bullet.

??

If your talking .45 colt? Then no.... Large Pistol primers for the .45 and large rifle primers for the 45/70

 

Can't really comment on the twist rate but I believe the 405 and 500 was the original weights for this round. Could be wrong. The 500 was better for very long range because of the extra weight but I don't think it had anything to do with stabilization. I shoot the 405 out to 230 yards (the longest we have at our range) with no problem and cuts a clean hole in a paper target.

Oh... If you are looking to shoot real BP, you will need to get bullets with BP type lube. Smokeless lube won't work. If you want to try a sub type BP, I've shot 777 with good results and you can use a smokeless bullet with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I shoot a Pedersoli sharps and a Uberti hiwall ( barrel is made by Pedersoli I understand ) an get excellent accuracy at 200 to 550 yards. I use cci 200 primers,3031powder, have been using meister 405 gr rnfp bullets with three lube grooves. I am gonna try some bad man bullets to see what to expect from them. One thing to remember is to make each round exactly the same ,case length (so put a case trimmer on your list and a dial caliper), overall length( again a dial caliper on your list ), a certain number of grains of powder plus or minus zero. I really suggest Montana vintage arms sights with a hadley eyecup, I thought they were expensive until other folks started quoting prices of other brands plus all I had to do is screw them on and the hole pattern matched with no shiming to make them straight up, the front sight wasn't hard either. JEEZ I'm turning into a real blabber fingers here so I'll leave it at that. Good Luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unless your gun show is much different than any around here, you're wasting your time expecting to find anything on your list except maybe primers. Then you'll pay 20% too much for them.

 

90% of what's at our local gun shows is tactical rifles and concerned carry handguns and stuff to go with them.

 

Lead bullets for cowboy action shooting are generally homemade or ordered in from companies that make them. Starline brass can be ordered directly from them or through a big online store like MidwayUSA or Grafs and Sons or many others. Brass is coming back but it was difficult to find for a good while. Specific powder is nearly impossible to get. Powder at gun shows, if they have any, is marked up some 25% over retail.

 

The best place to shop for cowboy stuff is at big matches. Even small match often have stuff for ssle. One guy comes to our little match and pulls out a folding table and fills it and tailgate with his assortment of trade goods.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tks....

 

Griz, what shape is best for long range accuracy?

Don't worry about stability unless you're cutting the velocity way down. And if you're loading BP, you really won't be advised by any to load any charge that doesn't fill the case so won't have any real control over velocity anyways.

 

For long range accuracy, it's up to the shooting gods and your loading skills. Bullet shape options in any weight bullet are pretty much limited when working at the lighter bullet weights for big bore cartridges. At 405 grains the difference you'll see in shape won't be significantly varied enough to worry about. That is, if you actually find any bullets that are even shaped significantly different. And truth is, when long range is discussed, bullet weight is often the main topic and heavier weights than 405gr are usually what's discussed. There is barely enough length to width to give any play room with the shape of a 405gr. And the long range shooters have found that the heavier bullets have significantly better BC (ballistic coefficient) so they shoot flatter and their weight (and BC) makes 'em buck the wind better. Don't worry about finding a better long range bullet yet. There are a lot of things to find out first.

 

What to buy at that show? Anything your LGS doesn't have that you know you need. And don't buy in large quantities. There is a whole lot to find out. For example, if you discover a vendor that seems to have a lot of what you're after, get his card and find out if he's got a store. Just asking for the card can work for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find that my Pedersoli "Pride of the Plains" likes 405 gr. bullets over a full recommended load of "Trail Boss" out to 400 yards. These are very comfortable loads to shoot. Beyond 400 yards I go to a 525 bullet over a light load of 3031. Groups do tighten up at 400 yards with the heavier bullet, but it is not nearly as much fun to shoot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tks....

 

Griz, what shape is best for long range accuracy?

Postell or Creedmoor.

Buy them here, till you learn to cast. If your Sharps has a 1/18 ROT it will shoot the heavy bullet better that the 4-5 that were built for lever/trap door guns

http://www.sageoutfitters.com/catalog/item/8932692/7451992.htm

FWIW: 'Gun Shows' today are a joke and a waste of time.

OLG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use 405 gr. bullets in my Pedersoli Sharps, I tried the lighter 300 gr. bullets but they would not shoot a group at 200yds. The 405's have 3 lube grooves and the the 300's only have one, perhaps that was the problem, I use the lightest recommended 45/70 powder charge using Hodgdon 4198. Trailboss was very recoil friendly, but I went back to my Hodgdon load.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I shoot a Pedersoli Sharps in 45-120 and it will shot better than I can, I also have a Browning ( Winchester ) Hi-wall in 45-90, and a Winchester 1886 in 45-70

 

The Sharps and the Hi-wall have 1-18 inch twist and will work better with heavier bullets. I like the Lyman 480 gr. pointed bullet the best in both.

 

My 1886 has a 1-22 inch twist and just loves the Lyman 340 gr. Hollow Point bullet

 

I tend to use all Federal Primers for all my guns, but any brand will work well with smokeless powders.

 

With BP I find that Federal Mag.primers work the best, but I am loading from 70grs. to 120 grs.

 

Cases I use morma ( hope I spelled that right ) for my 120 and Winchester or Starline for the others

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tks. Are primers and powders for .45 the sane ones used in .45-70?

 

On bullets.,I would rather shoot 405 from the .45-70?Sharps, but I good pard at WR, old # 4, told me Tge 1-18 twist in Sharps may well not stabilize tge 405 as well as a heavier bullet.

 

??

Actually, any twist stabilizes heavier bullets less than lighter bullets. Stability is a function of bullet length (which is a function of it's weight) and velocity. As weight goes up, length gets longer, and velocity needs to be increased (something that's harder to do with heavier bullets) or twist needs to be "shortened" to stabilize the heavier bullets because they are longer.

 

Unfortunately, if you're wanting to shoot 405gr bullets, there really aren't any Postell or Creedmore 405s. Heck, 405s aren't long enough to have much nose shape at all. With any caliber a certain amount of length is required for the grooves and driving bands. 405grainers use up most of their length for those.

 

Some years back 1 in 16 twist became the standard for the 45 single shots being made over here. It was right about when long range was really getting popular and top shooters were trying to shoot the heavier/longer bullets in order to benefit from their ballistic coefficient and mass. So far they've sorta topped out around 550gr. Along with bullet weights going up, the longer 45 cartridges got popular. 45-70 using BP can only produce so much velocity.

 

It really would be ok to pick up some 405s first off. Someone told you BP was going to help the recoil problem. It'd be a good idea to see how that works for you and starting with 405 grains would be sensible. Don't worry about stability. Find out what shooting a match worth of shots is like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BTW, there are a number of smokeless powders that can easily be loaded light. BP is best loaded heavier than 100% capacity. There is no real wiggle room on that with BP going by today's standards.

 

But there are powders like 5744 that is perfectly safe being loaded to get velocities less than say 1000fps. It's great to have plinking loads to practice with and get used to the rifle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My goodness, such knowledgeable people. Thank you got such good data. I absorb it.

 

I do not have a simple mind that is satisfied with simple answers. I also do not have a super complex mind that can fathom complex solutions from simple answers.

 

So I ask and ask.... And continue....and eventually, it is my nature to learn more and more....

 

I'm a CURIOUS mind, a sponge.

 

Tks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More info.

50 to 200 yards isn't really long range for a Sharps but. A 405 grain bullet will work fine. The ones you buy will be hard cast and using smokeless lube.

Brass, any will work but stick with one manufacture. As you shoot the brass will stretch slightly and not equally. So at some point the brass will need to be cut down to the correct overall case length. Find a shooter who has a case trimmer and ask if they can do it for you. Beats buying something you may use once a year.

With smokeless you will need to invest in a very good shoulder/butt pad.

Smokeless for big bore long range tends to be slower burning powders. I use 5744. You don't want the velocity to go above 1800 feet per second. Leading the barrel may be a problem.

At the convention this year Ol#4 gave a lecture on shooting long range. He spent an hour on just preparing and loading the ammo? Very good info.

Also you will need to determine what position you are going to shoot from and buy shooting sticks to match.

 

I just checked Midway, Starline, Cabella's, and Winchester and none of them had 45-70 in stock!!!!!!

 

And the best thing that happened to me when I started shooting long range was finding a friend who was experienced and got him to help me. It took me 6 moths to get it all worked out instead of two years trying stuff on my own.

Enjoy the thrill of hitting a target at any yardage

Ike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I may go to a gun show soon.

 

I'm taking up reloading. For the .45s, I'm interested in Lone Star 170s, Trail Boss, federal primers.

 

But for BP for Sharos .45-70, if I do, what primers, powders, brass recommend? I'd get 525 or so bullets.

Here's some info learned the hard way from my brother, Bluewater Ringer, with his .45-70 and my .40-65.

 

Assuming you're looking at grease groove bullets rather than paper-patch.

 

Brass - all my .40-65 is Starline, roughly 500+ rounds.

 

Each rifle, even if the same caliber, will have a mind of it's own. Our rifles like heavier bullets: his .45-70 around 530gr; my .40-65 at 420-430gr. Lighter bullets were all over the place. I shoot a Buffalo Arms mold, JIM409420 Money 2 bullet and 430gr Creedmoor.

 

Primers - The design of the Sharps falling block can sometimes have issues with primers that have harder cups like CCI. His Pedersoli Quigley in .45-70 is more forgiving and can handle harder cups, but why push it? My C. Sharps 1875 does not handle hard cups or else the firing pin bends or breaks, so I stick with Federal or Winchester.

 

Also, there can be differences in accuracy between Large Rifel, Large Rifle Magnum, Large Pistol and Large Pistol Magnum primers. I know on guy in MT that has switched to Large Pistol Magnum in his .40-65 and tightened his groups by about 40%. Everything about his load stayed the saem, just switched primers.

 

Powder - Back to the temperament of each rifle. Mine likes Scheutzen FFg. Tried GOEX Fg, FFg, FFFg, Swiss FFg. Finally settled on the Schuetzen FFg. My brothers rifle likes GOEX FFg. Many BPCR guys are shooting Kix, Old Eynsford.

 

Some people like putting a round piece of tissue paper or news paper over the flash hole inside the case before dropping the powder. Have not tried this myself but will be the next batch I load up.

 

Drop your powder through a minimum 24" brass drop tube.

 

Wad - I use a 0.030" thick fiber wad on top of the powder then compress using a compression die. Some people use a 0.060", some use polyethelene wads, milk carton wads, some sandwich a grease cookie between 2 wads.

 

NOTE! Make sure the base of your bullets are clean and have no lube residue! If your bullet sticks to the wad, you will get a flier that will go who knows where but at least you can hear it whistle.

 

Each rifle will have a different chamber length so the final seating depth of you bullet in the case will be unique to your rifle.

 

There will be a lot of trial and error figuring out the load(s) that work best in your rifle. Then you'll start playing with it and come up with more info. But it's a BLAST!

 

Travel over to the Shiloh Rifle Forum http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/ for a ton of great info. You'll sometimes fing myself and the Original Lumpy Grits over there.

 

FYI - I can't really shoot my C. Sharps at anything under 200 yards since by the time I run the rear sight down that low, all I see is breech. But making it ring a gong at 500, 600, 800 yards is a hoot!

 

Good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My goodness, such knowledgeable people. Thank you got such good data. I absorb it.

 

I do not have a simple mind that is satisfied with simple answers. I also do not have a super complex mind that can fathom complex solutions from simple answers.

 

So I ask and ask.... And continue....and eventually, it is my nature to learn more and more....

 

I'm a CURIOUS mind, a sponge.

 

Tks

I hope you have a big sponge. A cornucopia of knowledge shared here. I wonder how the frontier hunter ever managed with only simple tools while setting around the camp fire or kitchen table?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My goodness, such knowledgeable people. Thank you got such good data. I absorb it.

 

I do not have a simple mind that is satisfied with simple answers. I also do not have a super complex mind that can fathom complex solutions from simple answers.

 

So I ask and ask.... And continue....and eventually, it is my nature to learn more and more....

 

I'm a CURIOUS mind, a sponge.

 

Tks

Curious Jen, right?

 

You're perfect for the internet. You'll get simple answers and not-so-simple ones. And luckily, at least 10% will be correct. And even better, everyone who didn't have the courage to ask those questions will have a chance to learn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes.

 

I think the level if knowledge I see here was glimpsed by a very few. 130 years ago. Maybe by such as Danny Glover in Silverado or Tom Selkick's character in Quigley for us movie buffs.

 

There is much more involved than mist people guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and even more......

 

With smokeless you can download a lot of powders to give you whatever recoil suits you, and whatever velocity you need. Look around to find published loads to suit. If you can't find them, ask around. If you find or hear only of loads that don't suit your components, ask again or elsewhere.

 

Reloading is no more dangerous than flying. Both require understanding to do safely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK for all of you loading match grade long rifle cartridges. I bought this tool and it works great. the only thing you need a loading press for is seating the bullet. It decaps, primer pocket cleaner, installs primers. I never re-size my brass because I keep my brass sorted for each rifle.

 

And since I don't crimp my bullets all I do is push in the bullet until it hits the wad. My overall length requires that I use a lever to push the cartridge into the chamber so the lands just engage the bullet. No bullet jump.

Ike

http://www.meachamrifles.com/Decapper.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.