No Horse Hair, SASS #77464 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Love the feel of my 1860's w/Navy grips.....but those cartridge conversions are very alluring....but I can't get a handle on the different models. Anybody want to throw a little lite on the subject, maybe some nice pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Hey No Horse Hair: They feel & shoot just like your 1860s with navy grips (assuming you have navy grips on them) Easy to clean up as the gun breaks down into 3 pieces. They shoot black powder like a dream & I can't say enuf good things about them. I'm talking about the Open Tops and the RM Conversions. Just like shooting a cap gun. Right now, I have a pair of Man With No Name revolvers with Navy grips in 38 special, and an Open Top in 44 with 3 barrels and an extra cylinder. So I can put together a pair in 38 & a pair in 44. They are just like shooting an 1851 --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The Open Top (1871/72) is not a conversion. It was originally built as a cartridge gun. The current Replica Open Top is available with both the Army or the Navy Gripframe. Calibers are 38, 44 & 45. The breakdown is even further though, some guns are chambered in .44 Colt or .44 Special. 45s come in .45 Colt and .45 Schofield. Conversions can be even more confusing. your best bet to research the available conversions is to visit Cimarron's web site and look up "conversions" which are built as conversions from the ground up rather than actually converted. Then, you can get yourself into actually converting Percussion guns to cartridge, with even more selections and price ranges. They go from affordable to "bring your Broker." Good Luck Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 My main match revolvers are replica's of the 1851 Richards-Mason Navy Open Tops Conversion 5 1/2 in. Octogon barrel revolvers in .38 Special... They are great guns, POA is POI and great as I shoot FCD... Go here for info: http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/conversion-revolvers/conversion-revolvers-1851-conversions/1851-richards-mason-navy.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 ...or you could be tawkin' about getting a 1858 Remington Navy - Percussion, like this: http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/percussion-revolvers-2/1858-model/1858-navy.html ...and puttin' a conversion cylinder in it like this: http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/percussion-revolvers-2/conversion-revolvers-conversion-cylinders.html ...from your question, I can't tell which path you're tawkin' 'bout... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Johns Wolf Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 My main match pistols are are a pair of Belgian Centaures "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY" converted by the long cylinder method to .44 Colt. For details and pics see www.1960nma.org, click CONVERSIONS on the left navigation bar. Long Johns Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Of course, if you want to do it yourself, you can buy the gated conversion kit from Kenny Howell http://www.howelloldwestconversions.com/gated.html If a 38, have the barrel lined to accept a 357 bullet, and shoot 38 LC. If you use an 1860, you don't have to line the barrel, just buy the conversion cylinder. You can use the gated conversion cylinder and cut the recoil shield to accomodate loading Here is an article from the Hobby Gunsmith: http://www.hobbygunsmith.com/Archives/May04/Feature.htm Also, Mayor Maynot Killya SASS #8038 (Hoof Hearted) does conversions -- his "conversions" Webpage. http://cartridgeconversion.com/ But, I'm lazy & unskilled. I just shoot Open Tops or RM Conversions -- all the work has already been done. --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimstone Bill Willson Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Here is my Pietta/Kirst 1860 w/ navy grips, it is my favorite pistol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molasses Mike Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 No Horse Hair, I have a couple of '51 navy's that I could show you. they were 36 cal converted to shoot 38 heeled. I use 38 lc cut down to .900. Cast my own bullets, not hard at all. also have a couple of '72 open tops if you would like to see them, they are 44 spl. to go with the '66 win. Molasses Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriscoCounty Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 My 1851 conversion and 1871 open top are my favorite pistols. The 1851 uses a Kirst Konverter and I load heeled bullets over BP in .38 LC brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Horse Hair, SASS #77464 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 Some mighty fine looking revolvers, pards. I'm working my way thru the various ways....conversion cylinder with the backing plate in my 1860's. I'd have to remove the wedge every five shots. Seems troublesome to shoot cartridges. Conversion cylinder w/loading gate seems much more feasible. But, my experience "tuning " my brace of 1860 cap guns over the last year makes me think I would be inviting more breakdowns to subject them to the higher round counts they would get if I was shooting cartridges. That brings me to the factory built R-M and 1871 models. Would I be correct assuming that these models would be constructed more like my Smokewagons than the cap guns I've been working with (I haven't had the Smokewagons apart to judge the quality). And that brings me to my final delima....I'd want to shoot real black, which I've been doing for several years (Rugers) and I have just hammered it into my head that if yer shootin' black 44-40 is the only way to go! And none of the above is available in 44-40! Do you pistoleros shoot black in these various conversions in the 44 colt, 44 spec and 45 colt chamberings? Again, thanks for your posts and pics (ya helped me get thru another snowstorm). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Absolutely! The Open Tops and RM Conversions shoot black powder real well. If ya get one in 44, you can use the same bullets as those in your 44-40 rifle rounds. --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Here's a pair of 1861 Richards Conversions by American Frontier Firearms in .38Colt/Spl. Tru-Ivory grips added later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Heavens to mergatroyd YES. Now for a couple of caveats. My .44 Open Tops and conversions are .44 Colt chambered and I load for them with .44 Russian brass. I also shoot .44 Russian brass in my .44 Specials. For my .45 Open Tops and conversions, I load Cowboy 45 Special brass for a nice pleasant load. ALL of these straight wall pistol cartridges work superbly with BP and Subs. Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Pale Wolf. Those toys are entirely too nice. I also forgot to mention my 1851 Navy conversions in 38, and my 1861 Conversions in 38 and the .38 cylinders and barrels for my "other" Open Tops. Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Let's see if the pic will w**k: 1851 Richards-Mason Navy Open Tops Conversion 5 1/2 in. Octogon barrel revolvers in .38 Special. ...and yes, they shoot Black Powder since I shoot FCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Horse Hair, SASS #77464 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 PRairie Dawg makes a very good point....same bullets I already stock. Now somebody tell me the difference between 44 colt and 44 special...don't make me go down to the basement and get my reloading manuals out! Annnnnnnnd, what is the actual physical difference , of the repos I could purchase, between a 1860 Richard-Mason 44 , and the 1871 cartridge gun. Considering they would both have Navy grips, Looking at them on the EMF site , looks like the 71 has barrel mounted rear site and the 60 maybe hammer site? Oh, and keep them pictures coming.....I'm thinking SPECIAL EDITION DILLON CALENDER!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The 1860 "should" have army grips. The 1860's Richard-Mason conversion replica's I've seen all have a fixed sight on the back of the barrel. behind the conversion cylinder. The .44 colt is a 1.10 case, .44 special is a 1.16 case. I think, emphasis on think... That the original .44 colt cartridge was rimfire? No difference other than length in modern brass, that I'm aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 From shortest-to-longest: Russian-Colt-Special-Magnum They will all chamber in the same hole--it just depends on how deep the cut is. Every Open Top I've had in 44 Colt will chamber 44 Special--Maybe Uberti cuts & labels them that way. 44 Russian is an authentic Old West cartridge, as S&W chambered for it. 44 Russian is a great BP cartridge 20 - 25 grains BP & a 200 grain Big Lube boolit --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Top --1851 RM Conversion Octagonal barrel Profile more like cap gun barrel No rammer hole in barrel Hammer mounted rear sight Conversion ring look at recoil shield Open Top -- middle Round barrel with different profile where rammer hole should be. No rammer hole Barrel-mounted rear sight No conversion ring--looking recoil shield Man With No Name -- bottom Basically an Open top frame with a cap gun 1851 barrel Functional rammer (but you don't use it) -- I eject my empties with a stick. You can not put a cap gun barrel on these frames though, as the distance between the centers of the barrel & arbor holes are different in cap guns and MWNN conversions You can see what's available by going to Cimarron, Taylors, EMF, & Buffalo Arms Websites. A quick look produced these results: MWNN -- 38 & Navy grips RM -- 1860 Army conversion -- Features blue backstrap and trigger guard, round barrel, and blade front sight. 38 & 45 From Taylors RM -- 1851 Navy conversion -- Features brass back strap and trigger guard, octagonal barrel, and brass post front sight. 38, 44, & 45 Open Top -- 38, 44, & 45 Army or Navy grips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 ... MWNN -- 38 & Navy grips RM -- 1860 Army conversion -- Features blue backstrap and trigger guard, round barrel, and blade front sight. 38 & 45 From Taylors RM -- 1851 Navy conversion -- Features brass back strap and trigger guard, octagonal barrel, and brass post front sight. 38, 44, & 45 Open Top -- 38, 44, & 45 Army or Navy grips Slight correction to above. The 1860 Richards-Mason is available in .38, .44 (Cimarron only), and .45 The 1851 Richards-Mason is available in .38 only The Opentop is only available with Army grips in the 7 1/2" barrel, or Navy grips in any barrel length And don't forget the 1860 Type II Richards, which is the same cylinder and frame as the1860 Richards-Mason, but a different (more curvy) barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Horse Hair, SASS #77464 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 Colorado Coffinmaker, Sent you a PM. NO HORSE HAIR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Thanks Abilene: My response was limited by what I found quickly on the WWW. --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Mexican Wolf Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Here's a pair of 1862 Richards Conversions by American Frontier Firearms in .38Colt/Spl. Tru-Ivory grips added later. Superb guns compadre... I wish have one for my use in my ol' Mexico... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Mexican Wolf Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Thanks Abilene: My response was limited by what I found quickly on the WWW. --Dawg Saludos compadre, one quiestion about the conversions: How much strong are the brass grips for daily use? I live in Mexico and the gun laws don't permit to have revolvers rechambered above the .38 special; so my fellows mexicans can use only the conversions in .38 special for sport and self defense, but a lot of time ago y another mexican forum that I write in present, say me that are no strong this brass grips for the daily work; saludos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Dixie, the brass gripframes on these guns are plenty strong. They will not bend or warp with normal use. I don't think hammering nails into fences is considered normal use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Palewolfe, Of course ASM and AFF made a lot of guns that weren't quite historically accurate (like '51 and '61 Richards, or '60 Richards with straight cylinder), I'm surprised that AFF would call yours 1862 models since the straight cylinder and frame make it look more like a '61. Regardless, they are a beautiful pair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Palewolfe, Of course ASM and AFF made a lot of guns that weren't quite historically accurate (like '51 and '61 Richards, or '60 Richards with straight cylinder), I'm surprised that AFF would call yours 1862 models since the straight cylinder and frame make it look more like a '61. Regardless, they are a beautiful pair! Good catch, Abiline! Of course that was a typo; they ARE 1861s ...the SmugMug album where I store my photos has them correctly labeled. Thanks! PWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Good catch, Abiline! Of course that was a typo; they ARE 1861s ...the SmugMug album where I store my photos has them correctly labeled. Thanks! PWB That link is about enough to make a mean jealous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Slim Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Saludos compadre, one quiestion about the conversions: How much strong are the brass grips for daily use? I live in Mexico and the gun laws don't permit to have revolvers rechambered above the .38 special; so my fellows mexicans can use only the conversions in .38 special for sport and self defense, but a lot of time ago y another mexican forum that I write in present, say me that are no strong this brass grips for the daily work; saludos. Dixie, I think you are confusing the backstrap with the frame. The backstrap holds the grips, the frame supports the cylinder/ firing mechanism/barrel, etc. Some Cap & Ball revolvers were made with brass frames by the Confederate States due to steel shortages, and there are reproduction being made of these Confederate States C&B revolvers with brass frames (sold by Cabelas). The brass frames are weak, and conversion cylinders are not recommended for these guns. I believe all the R&M conversions are made with steel frames. B Slim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly SASS #45219 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 A brace of 1860s with gated Kirst Konverter cylinders and Kirst ejectors fills my holsters. I load 'em up with Cowboy 45 Special brass with bp under Big Lube®LLC bullets. These are my go to guns for FCGF. FWIW, the 45 Cowboy Spl. brass with Big Lube bullets are absolutely ideal for these guns. DD-MDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Mexican Wolf Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Dixie, the brass gripframes on these guns are plenty strong. They will not bend or warp with normal use. I don't think hammering nails into fences is considered normal use Thanks for the information compadre; well I never think to use one brass gripframe or backstrap as hammer but in my country there's a tradition of bad reputation of other metal materials in guns that don't be steel and even if I find one hear I was thinking to buy a Single Action Army steel backstraps, but economy it's not buena in this times. Dixie, I think you are confusing the backstrap with the frame. The backstrap holds the grips, the frame supports the cylinder/ firing mechanism/barrel, etc. Some Cap & Ball revolvers were made with brass frames by the Confederate States due to steel shortages, and there are reproduction being made of these Confederate States C&B revolvers with brass frames (sold by Cabelas). The brass frames are weak, and conversion cylinders are not recommended for these guns. I believe all the R&M conversions are made with steel frames. B Slim Saludos compadre, in my bad english in Mexico and the other folks of here when we talk about guns we know and say gripframes as a sinonym od empuñadura or backstraps in our case; for the general frame we say cylinder frame to separate both parts; but as you looks, our english it's not very well learned, sorry compadre and in the future I try to say Backstraps, thanks. Greetings from Mexico... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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