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Toxicity, lead, primers


Aunt Jen

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Hello.

 

I hear more about toxicity regarding primers or lead bullets. I know this group is extremely knowledgeable in such areas, so I thought I'd ask.

 

I did a few Google searches, and I get the general idea,

http://www.hendonpub.com/law_and_order/articles/2013/11/going_green_non_toxic_training_ammo

but I am as yet unaware of how to tell by looking at the box if ammo inside has toxic primers. If it says clean, I guess clean. But if it doesn't address the issue, then I guess toxic?

 

Also, I wonder if I should bring hand cleaning wipes to clean hands after a shoot, AND if I should wear plastic gloves when handling lead bullets?

 

Over time, I wondered if it could add up.

 

Thank you for your info.

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Lead-free primers are part of a "non-toxic" combination that usually includes a coated bullet as well. Non-toxic ammo is used mostly at indoor ranges which are trying to meet tough lead standards in buildings. Their ventilation system costs a lot to install and operate, so it's cheaper for them to mandate folks use non-toxic ammo than it is to run the indoor range really cleanly, using lots of ventilation and wet-mop type floor cleanup.

 

Regular primers contain the explosive compound lead styphnate. It is probably the biggest source of lead in shooting where the bullets hit a soft target or ventilated trap, as the amount of lead coming off the bullet as it is fired is fairly small.

 

But, as TB mentioned, we shoot outdoors. Air carries most of the fine lead particles and vapor away pretty quickly. Otherwise, lots of our top shooters would have elevated blood lead levels.

 

Ones who have had high lead tests have often reported that once they got serious about hand and face hygiene, and stayed away from indoor ranges that don't clean up the air or the floor well, their lead levels go down to pretty much normal.

 

Lead is hard to absorb through the skin. It is easy to absorb it in the stomach or lungs. So, wash hands often, keep hands off face and out of mouth. Wash hands and face after loading and don't drink or each while loading - that especially includes after case "tumbling and vibratory cleaning." Avoid the dust associated with case cleaning (I use dryer sheets in the vibratory bowl media and discard the sheet immediately and clean and sift media outdoors). Try to avoid the "blue mist" that rises off of shotgun targets - a lot of the shot that hits those targets goes into airborne particles, while rifle and pistol bullets break into fragments that plow into the ground.

 

Doing all that, lead uptake is pretty well controllable.

 

Good luck, GJ

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Hello.

 

I hear more about toxicity regarding primers or lead bullets. I know this group is extremely knowledgeable in such areas, so I thought I'd ask.

 

I did a few Google searches, and I get the general idea,

http://www.hendonpub.com/law_and_order/articles/2013/11/going_green_non_toxic_training_ammo

but I am as yet unaware of how to tell by looking at the box if ammo inside has toxic primers. If it says clean, I guess clean. But if it doesn't address the issue, then I guess toxic?

 

Also, I wonder if I should bring hand cleaning wipes to clean hands after a shoot, AND if I should wear plastic gloves when handling lead bullets?

 

 

You can expect a lot of answers to this post from all side of the lead exposure debate. As regards gloves, I generally wear blue nitrile gloves when loading...not because I greatly fear exposure, but because of the way I load. I examine each case by slowly rotating it with both hands before I insert it in the press, looking for deformities and/or cracks. Doing this for a few hundred cases at a time will leave residue from tumbling and discoloration from the brass itself on your fingers that will require heavy scrubbing to get off. Also, since I load black powder, the inherently soft lube tends to get all over the hands, and makes things more slippery as you go along. Gloves tend to mitigate that problem as well. When you're done, strip them off, throw them away, and you are good to go! Hand wipes are always a good idea, and also make fair cleaning patches for black powder fouling if you have to swab a barrel or two during the shoot.

 

CS

edit for spelling

 

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Please, if you are going to wash your hands, use a mild soap and water solution or hand wipes that are not full of disinfectants.

Turns out that these new fangle hand wipes that kill germs also remove all the oils the body produces to protect its self.

As a commercial caster and reloader for 16 years, I suggest just using caution.

Do not smoke, eat or drink while reloading.

I didn't even answer the phone while reloading.

Washed my hands with soap and water when not working.

Because I worked int he shop almost every day, I have a pair shops for working in the shop.

They're on the back porch where I put them on and remove them before coming in the house.

You may not need to go to that extreme. I was processing 2000 rounds every day.

Your biggest issue is your brass cleaning.

I did brass cleaning (tumblers) at night on a timer when I wasn't in the shop.

First thing in the morning, I would run a damp mop over the floor before starting the day.

Again, this may not be necessary for small lots of reloading.

 

I had my blood tested every 4 months for lead.

Yes, it was elevated but it was only 2 points above normal for an adult and way under the OSH limits for commercial operations with lead.

 

If you want to wear gloves, find a good light latex so you can feel the parts as you put them together.

Get the ones you use once and toss out. Turns out your get more contact with the parts by trying to to put on glooves to reuse them.

Or just wash before doing anything. Drink, smoke, eat, bathroom calls.

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You can purchase coated, lead bullets if you wish to avoid touching metallic lead. Some of the coatings are interesting colors (if you want to make a style statement).

 

I definitely wash my hands after shooting and at lunch time during a match. My last blood test showed normal levels of lead. I load ordinary cast lead bullets.

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Don't shoot indoors, wear nitrile gloves when reloading and you should not have any worries. Blood tests for lead are available. Once I got away from the supposedly safe police indoor range my blood lead level went way down. I qualified 40 officers 3X a year. Normal reloading and cowboy shooting are not a problem.

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As Cliffhanger said, the biggest exposure to lead is cleaning the brass. The primer is a major source of lead plus the little left from the lead bullet. So that almost invisible due from the media is not good. But if you sort the brass outside it can greatly reduce the risk.

 

I use both polish (car polish similar to wax) and old dryer sheets in my brass cleaner to keep dust down. Then I use a large plastic bag around my brass strainer, poor the media and brass onto the strainer, then close the bag. Let settle, then shake the bag. Then wait a few seconds to let any dust settle, then open the bag and start picking out my brass. All this in the garage or in good weather outside. Just to help. My levels have been fine. (My last Doctor warned to be careful about getting lead tests too often with new medical rules and interference. Since my level continued to do well, I don't test very often now.)

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Those of us that grow quantities of facial hair are at a higher risk than those that don't because the beards give the dust a place to settle.

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1) Brass tumbler media dust,

2) Shooting indoors a lot,

3) Eating/smoking while casting lead or reloading.

 

Simply be aware of what you are doing with those 3 things. Wash your hands and if casting bullets also the face and lips briefly when done and you'll be fine.

 

Used dryer sheets really work awesome in the brass tumbler or if you don't have those a couple strips of paper towel will pick up a lot of the dust during a tumbling session then you can just throw those away. I would still empty the tumbler and shake out the shells outside if it's possible.

 

If you are doing these chores a lot, maybe buy bulk packs of nitrile gloves. (they've replaced rubber gloves completely, no long term skin allergy problems from prolonged use like rubber) I reuse them a few times until they rip. Just use a marker to indicate which side is "out" before you take them off. Dirt cheap if you get a couple uses out of each pair.

 

A final issue many don't consider is the gun cleaners and whatnot. We have to do what we have to do in order to keep our guns running during matches but try not to drown your hands in gun cleaner. Most of the good ones that cut buildup on contact are serious transport agents that will carry lead and other chemicals through your skin. Be aware is what I'm saying. Don't cover yourself in the stuff when using it. Wear gloves when doing major cleaning at home.

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Aunt Jen,

With minimal care, you have nothing to worry about. Obviously, some are very paranoid about it, but at least they are aware that they must use some caution.

 

I have reloaded profusely for over 60 years, and for a couple of periods in time, cast lots of bullets, which I no longer cast anything.

Just using common sense in not breathing dust from a vibrating polisher, or breathing dust off oxidized shot, or washing before eating after handling lead and reloading, will keep the hazard under control. Doing all these things with good ventilation is important too. I have been tested numerous times, and never been found to have elevated lead levels.

 

Just use common sense, and you will be OK.

RBK

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When casting I use an air extractor above the furnace in the workshop, a small dust mask and gloves and take a shower when I get home. Clothes get washed.

When cleaning cases I use a Rebel 17 liquid tumbler so no dust issues.

When reloading I use latex gloves, don't eat or drink until I'm finished and wash my hands.

I shoot about once a month at an indoor range, otherwise outdoors shooting only.

 

Been doing this for 15 years and have only ever had a slightly above average lead level recorded, nowhere near the levels that pose a health risk. Like most things, a little common sense goes a long way.

 

S.S.

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Yes. I'm cleaning brass, now. I had quite a bit in a bin waiting on me. I'm using a green corncob mix by Lymon, and it seems to work adequately.

 

I'm doing it on the back patio with rubber gloves (whatever the material is these days), tumbler, then using the cage to turn it over, dumping it into a clean bin for keeping. So I'm taking some kind of precautions. :)

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A couple of suggestions to minimize the effects of the toxicity is put your vibrarory brass cleaner outside when you clean your brass and wear gloves like the medical folks when you reload so you don't aborb any of the lead thru your fingers. I also monitor my lead levels when I do my annual labs. I let the doctor know to check lead levels because of the connact and vapors while shooting lead bullets which is higher than when shooting jacketed bullets.

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All good advice. My lead level was elevated to the point that my doctor sent me to a specialist. Moved the tumbler to the garage, stopped shooting indoors, got some lead remover soap and cleaner, started wearing gloves while reloading. 6 months later my level had dropped into the high end of the safe range. eating and touching your face are things to avoid. All this has been said, just one more voice repeating it.

 

CR

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Yes. I'm cleaning brass, now. I had quite a bit in a bin waiting on me. I'm using a green corncob mix by Lymon, and it seems to work adequately.

 

I'm doing it on the back patio with rubber gloves (whatever the material is these days), tumbler, then using the cage to turn it over, dumping it into a clean bin for keeping. So I'm taking some kind of precautions. :)

Hope your wear'n a 'dust' mask.

OLG

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A simple dust mask will work BUT not the kind with just one strap. 3M makes several that are slightly better than the kind found in the painting isle at Hope Depot and will do a much better job of creating a seal around the nose and mouth Usually white with two yellow straps.

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Dang it Dan! I LOVE these aliases! People in muggle world--non-SASS--dont kmow what they're missing.

 

Yes: BEST TYPE OF MASK has a Wolfman--- Oops. Not that one! I mean. BRST TYPE OF MASK i think has a cloth accordion face that covers from above The nose to below the chin, 2 straps, and a little piece of inlaid metal over nose to bend down and conform to nose with Tom Sellick to check it.

 

I use those. Maybe good to use them for cleaning brass also.

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Dang it Dan! I LOVE these aliases! People in muggle world--non-SASS--dont kmow what they're missing.

 

Yes: BEST TYPE OF MASK has a Wolfman--- Oops. Not that one! I mean. BRST TYPE OF MASK i think has a cloth accordion face that covers from above The nose to below the chin, 2 straps, and a little piece of inlaid metal over nose to bend down and conform to nose with Tom Sellick to check it.

 

I use those. Maybe good to use them for cleaning brass also.

Your lungs will thank you :excl:;)

 

OLG

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Lead dust particles will pass through a simple dust mask. A NIOSH 95 rating is required to filter lead particles. I'm sure a paper mask is better than nothing, but I use a respirator type for lead.

 

CR

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My masks are Medline, "98% effective, earloop surgical grade masks.

 

But I see it says in fine print not for toxic or hazardous air contaminants such as paint spray, asbestos, silica, cotton or other toxic dusts...

 

Bad mask for lead dust?

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I have another by Nexcare, same design , says it's to contain your cold or flu.

 

I have another by Comfirtex, filtration mask, flexall.. Says also good for non-toxic dusts...

 

Maybe these are nit very effective for lead dust?

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The Comfortex says AAA 99% filtration for 3 microns or larger.

I did a Google search and think you are looking at nuisance dust masks. These are not intended for toxic materials and are for things like sawdust or powder from wallboard. Were you an OSHA-regulated lead worker and wore a nuisance dust mask instead of a fitted respirator with a particulate cartridge rated for lead dust your employer would be cited.

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