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Guess that new Marine 1911 isn't so great after all...


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Had a 1911, only carry polymer pistols. Glock G26 9mm or Springfield XDM compact 45. No fails. When we got concealed carry, I started with Glocks on advice of two shooters That have shot competition for many years and were retired LEOs. Both loved 1911s, but said they would fail and that wasn't to be tolerated. Glocks not so much.

1911s are heavier with less capacity.

I wouldn't be telling the troops who are currently in harms way that they are wrong about their weapon choice.

O K haters, go ahead.

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Any gun can fail. I have never seen any evidence that the 1911 fails more than a glock and I have carried both for duty use. I trust them equally.

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Any gun can fail. I have never seen any evidence that the 1911 fails more than a glock and I have carried both for duty use. I trust them equally.

 

yup - I have many many rounds (uncountable, but easily a thousand +) in my 1991A1 w/o hiccup....so far have fired about 400 through my 9mm FN FNX9 - no issue there. Had one stove pipe on my first magazine ever fired from the pistol - I fired it one handed - most likely caused by limp wristing. Ever since then - no issue. The FNX has a much stronger spring than in my Colt 1991A1.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Just to stir the pot some more; How may times do we hear about guys, (mostly Cops), shooting themselves in the leg with a Glock? I especially remember the Cop at the school telling the kids that he is a professional, then promptly shooting himself in the leg.

We hear about it but how many are confirmed stories? We only had one incident in the 17 years we used Glocks to the best of my knowledge. Given the amount of Glocks in service I think the number is probably proportionally small.

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Chevy, Ford. It really depends on what the person likes and what they have more confidence in. If they feel more confident with Glock, they're going to do better with it if they feel more confident with 1911, they're going to be better off with that platform.

 

Both will go bang every time, both will stop a bad guy and both are excellent platforms. My 1911 has gone bang every time I pulled the trigger, so has my M&P Shield and, low and behold, every time I've pulled the trigger on a Glock it's also gone bang. They all went bang when trigger pulled with live round in the chamber. Sow have my S&W and Ruger Revolvers.

 

My feelings aren't hurt over the decision as to what the troops choose to carry. Whatever they are going to use to stop bad guys is good by me.

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The only thing that bothers me about the Marine Corps decision is the expense and apparent inept decision making. Did they not field test the weapon with the troops who are going to use it? Just ordered a boatload because of the cool color?

Somebody probably needs to be held accountable here. Go to the Petagon and round up the usual suspects.

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The only thing that bothers me about the Marine Corps decision is the expense and apparent inept decision making. Did they not field test the weapon with the troops who are going to use it? Just ordered a boatload because of the cool color?

Somebody probably needs to be held accountable here. Go to the Petagon and round up the usual suspects.

Blast from the past...

 

 

http://m.military.com/daily-news/2012/07/20/marines-pick-colt-for-new-pistol.html

 

GG

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I guess the fair thing to do is limit replies to those here who have been in gunfights using various weapons and hear their input. I think I would prefer an axe or a can of bear spray.

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I guess the fair thing to do is limit replies to those here who have been in gunfights using various weapons and hear their input. I think I would prefer an axe or a can of bear spray.

? Why.... Those who have not been in gunfights but use firearms alot for plinking and target shooting can have input. In many aspects some of those shooters may have fired many times more rounds than those who have survived a gunfight and can attest for a firearm's traits and reliability along with durability.

 

GG

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The only thing that bothers me about the Marine Corps decision is the expense and apparent inept decision making. Did they not field test the weapon with the troops who are going to use it? Just ordered a boatload because of the cool color?

Somebody probably needs to be held accountable here. Go to the Petagon and round up the usual suspects.

Same mentality as you pointed out follows through to Corporate World. People in the Ivory Tower passing down orders and direction to the workers in the field/plant that have no idea (corporate towers) if it will work nor do they care.

 

Edit: In addition, I would think it would be very wise to decide upon one caliber and gun (sidearm for this discussion) to military troops. I say this only from the logistics of making the supply/distribution sysystem of parts/ammo be efficent.

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Just to stir the pot some more; How may times do we hear about guys, (mostly Cops), shooting themselves in the leg with a Glock? I especially remember the Cop at the school telling the kids that he is a professional, then promptly shooting himself in the leg.

Tell us how many times have you heard cops shooting themselves with a 'Glock'? Or any other gun for that matter.

 

Was your for instance example a Glock?

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That video you reference was a DEA agent in a DARE class. And he was an idiot for sure. I hope he was fired.

The fact that he chambered a round and had a negligent discharge had nothing to do with the Glock.It had to do with him being an idiot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ain2by4Fums

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When pigs fly!

 

Someday you guys will realize how much more superior the Glock is to the 1911.

 

Well, I have a Glock and a dozen 1911's. Guess which platform I prefer. The good news about a Glock is that it functions like a revolver. If you have shot a 1911 for a fair amount of time, the controls are not difficult. My Gold Cup shoots much better groups than my Glock.

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I can respect your choice. A person may live or die by his choices and only he can make the call. Double stack 1911 I believe. Key words I see is 'Lots of research and testing involved...' ya did your homework.

More suitable for home/vehicle carry I would think, but if you're a big fellow, then can carry on body. Same statement for the full size polymer framed 45's.

 

I don't understand your statement about 'much modification for me...' do you mean the Glock would take much modification? or yourself?

 

I agree, a full size Polymer gun isn't necessarily superior to an equally sized frame and capacity steel (1911) gun. The Poly gun would be lighter and usually less expensive that a comparable steel 1911. That would be some Brownie points in favor to.

 

I believe a G21-13rd 45acp mag will work in a G30 gun that uses a standard 10rd flush magazine. Hmmmm, a 13rd reload option if you choose the compact sized firearm and more concealabie Glock 30. Just a thought.

 

As a side note, a polymer gun is usually less expensive to build, thus you can supply more guns to an agency/army for a given expenditure of money. That is an advantage or superior? LOL But that is beyond this scope of conversation.

 

Good shooting to you all.

 

That would be modifications to the Glock. The grip was too short on the ones I tested, the trigger feels clumsy, and it wouldn't cycle reliably if you didn't have a firm grip on it. My Para's will cycle completely and reliably with even light SASS loads designed for my convertible Rugers, and do it laying on a table and held in place with three fingers and my thumb on the grip safety. I practice shooting with the off hand and try to at times simulate stressed or diminished capability situations.

 

Yes! I am a little on the large side. 6'3" and average around 265. I wear a size 54 coat and 38/40 trousers, so concealment when I choose to is not an issue, except when I decide to wear bib overalls. (I haven't got that quite satisfactorily worked out yet"

 

I do like the double action aspect of the Glock. I considered buying a Para LDA. I've been carrying a 1911 for a lot of years and muscle memory is hard to overcome. I don't shoot Wild Bunch for just that reason. I can just see myself, in a stressful situation, shooting five and dropping the mag with eight or nine still in it.

 

My dad and a number of my uncles and older cousins were military and LEOs. I listened to them a lot growing up and took what they told me and explored it along with things I'd read and ideas of my own.

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I do like the double action aspect of the Glock. I considered buying a Para LDA. I've been carrying a 1911 for a lot of years and muscle memory is hard to overcome. I don't shoot Wild Bunch for just that reason. I can just see myself, in a stressful situation, shooting five and dropping the mag with eight or nine still in it.

 

 

Carried a 1911 in the Army for 3 years. Then on the PD carried revolver for 16. Then back to the semi for 10. Then SASS for the past 14. Sooo, my carry is a small hammer exposed revolver for that very reason. Know from expirence in the panic where and what my left thumb would be doing. Practice, practice, practice, becomes the routine. So plan on that routine.

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I have fired Glocks in 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP. Personally, I don't like the feel of a Glock. They just don't fit me. I can shoot them well enough, just don't feel right.

 

I virtually carry a virtual SA 1911A1, 8+1, with two virtual 8 round backup mags. Maybe it was due to the 1911 being my military issue sidearm, but it just feels natural to me.

 

Sometimes I virtually carry a virtual SA XDM in 9mm. 19+1 and up to four 19 round virtual backup mags. XDM fits my hands pretty well.

 

Thinking of a virtual .40S&W maybe.

 

After I find a nice 1873 rifle in .45 Colt. Virtual of course. ;)

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Sounds to me like the youngsters were lacking in training. And how do you grip a 1911 so the "beavertail grip safety" won't disengage...?? :huh:

 

So transfer 'em to the CMP~! :)

Easily done when you are drawing fast. Competitive shooters have had problems with it since practical shooting competitions started. Guys transitioning from a rifle to a pistol, while wearing gloves, need something they can draw and pull the trigger on. If they want a .45, they'd have been better off going with a Glock .45 from the start. Simpler, more reliable, higher capacity and cheaper.

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That would be modifications to the Glock. The grip was too short on the ones I tested, the trigger feels clumsy, and it wouldn't cycle reliably if you didn't have a firm grip on it.

 

The fulll size 45acp Glock G21 grip is too short? Perhaps you were handling a G30-45acp. $30 fixes the stock trigger but I find the original trigger (5-6 lb) satisfactory for self-defense purposes. I got other guns for more precise shooting. A Glock G21 magazine will fit into the compact G30 and thus, you have the same grip length. I used the G21 for discussion because it is comparable to the Para-14. Glocks are not pin point target guns in my view or intended purpose. But YMMV. Malfunction of nearly if not all semiautos with a limp wrist/light grip are sure to be. For what it is worth, I rather lump all Polymer framed guns into the same generic catagory and do not necessarily put the Glock at the penacle. Pick the one that floats your boat.

 

My Para's will cycle completely and reliably with even light SASS loads designed for my convertible Rugers, and do it laying on a table and held in place with three fingers and my thumb on the grip safety. I practice shooting with the off hand and try to at times simulate stressed or diminished capability situations.

That is commendable. My Polymer guns will not cycle with equivalent PF cowboy ammo. LOL.

 

Yes! I am a little on the large side. 6'3" and average around 265. I wear a size 54 coat and 38/40 trousers, so concealment when I choose to is not an issue, except when I decide to wear bib overalls. (I haven't got that quite satisfactorily worked out yet"

 

Can be an issue when it is high double digit temperature and humidity outside. I.E. , not coat.

 

I do like the double action aspect of the Glock. I considered buying a Para LDA. I've been carrying a 1911 for a lot of years and muscle memory is hard to overcome. I don't shoot Wild Bunch for just that reason. I can just see myself, in a stressful situation, shooting five and dropping the mag with eight or nine still in it.

 

Glocks and most other Polymer framed guns are 'single action'. I am thinking Glocks, S&W M&P's and the like. Second thought, how do you adapt to just shooting just five rounds out of a Single Action Revolver, and using your off hand thumb to cock the hammer, and then go to a 14 rounder semi Para, without muscle memory kicking in and wanting to recock the hammer each time and reholster after five (Para or any other semi) ? So, should you be shooting SASS because it could mess with you during a stressful situation based around a high capacity semi Para? :) That is alright. As said before, I am speaking more in generality for Polymer semi-autos vs metal 1911's.

 

 

My dad and a number of my uncles and older cousins were military and LEOs. I listened to them a lot growing up and took what they told me and explored it along with things I'd read and ideas of my own.

 

No problem, I suspect you don't carry concealed much and that is alright too. No flaming intended.

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Blastmaster. I do carry concealed almost every day. Long tailed shirts and other concealment tactics help. My favorite sidearm is the 13/45 in a JIT slide holster that tucks it in just under my ample ribcage. In hot weather I'll often open carry or take along a light, slightly oversized short sleeved shirt and wear a what we grew up calling a Wallace Beery undershirt.

 

Using revolvers doesn't seem to affect my daily carry. Shooting five out of a wheelgun and cocking between shots is no more confusing than riding my Harley is to driving a car or truck. On the rare occasions that I carry a revolver for protection, it is a five shot in .45 Colt.

 

I bought my wife a Taurus Millennium Pro in .45 ACP. It works for her. It is polymer frame and DA only. I did find that the mags from my Paras fit the Taurus. My grouping the Glocks with the DAs is basically from the lack in the ones I've tried, (and it's been a while) of an exposed hammer. My first Para was a polymer frame kit gun. I don't really have anything against polymer guns.

 

No flame perceived. It's a good discussion! Like I said in previous posts and discussions, I don't have anything against the Glock or any other polymer guns. I ain't kinky! I just know what I like!!

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Blastmaster. I do carry concealed almost every day. Long tailed shirts and other concealment tactics help. My favorite sidearm is the 13/45 in a JIT slide holster that tucks it in just under my ample ribcage. In hot weather I'll often open carry or take along a light, slightly oversized short sleeved shirt and wear a what we grew up calling a Wallace Beery undershirt.

 

Using revolvers doesn't seem to affect my daily carry. Shooting five out of a wheelgun and cocking between shots is no more confusing than riding my Harley is to driving a car or truck. On the rare occasions that I carry a revolver for protection, it is a five shot in .45 Colt.

 

I bought my wife a Taurus Millennium Pro in .45 ACP. It works for her. It is polymer frame and DA only. I did find that the mags from my Paras fit the Taurus. My grouping the Glocks with the DAs is basically from the lack in the ones I've tried, (and it's been a while) of an exposed hammer. My first Para was a polymer frame kit gun. I don't really have anything against polymer guns.

 

No flame perceived. It's a good discussion! Like I said in previous posts and discussions, I don't have anything against the Glock or any other polymer guns. I ain't kinky! I just know what I like!!

I stand corrected about you carrying. Sorry.

 

It has been a very good discussion and I thank you for that.

 

Have a great day and a better tomorrow.

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The Glock is an odd duck, neither true single action nor double action.

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Thank you. I suspected/realized you were talking about something other than the Shield after I hit the first send button.

 

S&W M&P series seem to be fine,reliable guns(my box stock Shield is) and are in the polymer material (plastic) category.

I had a Shield and I liked it too but the M&P/C holds 12 rounds (13 w/one in the chamber) and doesn't have as much recoil. I've shot hundreds of rounds out of it and it never failed me!

 

Rye

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Carried the S&W 4026 as a Detective and used it for USPSA. Over 10,000 rounds and never a hick-up of any soarts. Those loads were all my reloads.

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Carried the S&W 4026 as a Detective and used it for USPSA. Over 10,000 rounds and never a hick-up of any soarts. Those loads were all my reloads.

Your department allowed you to carry your reloads on duty?

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Your department allowed you to carry your reloads on duty?

 

You gotta be kidding. You were not even allowed to polish the feed ramp. Luckly my Sgt. liked the look of my feed ramp. I just told him with all that shooting and cleaning, it just ended up looking like that. I also had the cleanest looking 4026. :D

Did use the reloads at the range a few times. Much more accurate than the one's they had out of my gun. Thankfully, I just made one big hole. I did get a look from the R.O. when he checked my target and gave me a 100. Used semi-wad cutters. ;) Was good friends with the range folks :D

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You gotta be kidding. You were not even allowed to polish the feed ramp. Luckly my Sgt. liked the look of my feed ramp. I just told him with all that shooting and cleaning, it just ended up looking like that. I also had the cleanest looking 4026. :D

Did use the reloads at the range a few times. Much more accurate than the one's they had out of my gun. Thankfully, I just made one big hole. I did get a look from the R.O. when he checked my target and gave me a 100. Used semi-wad cutters. ;) Was good friends with the range folks :D

Sorry, guess I misread your original post about "those loads were all my reloads". Would have thought you would have wanted to qualify with duty ammo rather than your custom reloads.

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Way back in the day, all our range ammo was swc reloads. We would fire 18 rounds of duty ammo after the re-qual. Budgets were tight.

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Sound to me this article that had be paided by Gaston Glock fans to "convince" that Glock is the best firearm ever; but sorry, the Glocks have 2 important problems that 1911 don't:

1.- the worst handling gun of this type; it's like handling a brick instead a grip.

2.- Ka-Booms!!! even the 9mm. versions are the least guns that has this problems, their have it; a weak chamber that don't allow to to use reloaded ammo and tendency to blow out like a grenade if you don't have a Bar Sto barrel makes for me that it's the most expensive type of saturday night handgun ever made; a Bryco, Jennings or Davis with Steroids it's a Glock for me... :D

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I was president of the AEC HQS pistol league in the mid-to late 70's at their indoor range in Germantown, MD. I helped run the Couriers through their qualifications (semi-annually I recall). Anyhow, these guys delivered top secret AEC stuff all over Washington, DC. They carried S&W Model 19's with full powered .357 ammo, but qualified with .38 Spl. to keep from denting the angled stop wall. I guess the FBI got rid of their 19's before the AEC.

 

We kept the club guns (High Standard Military Citation .22's) at the guard station beside a rack of 97's, Thompsons, and a bunch of revolvers. Was way cool. They were prepared for the invasion.

 

They later switched to Glocks and Usi's.

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Sound to me this article that had be paided by Gaston Glock fans to "convince" that Glock is the best firearm ever; but sorry, the Glocks have 2 important problems that 1911 don't:

 

1.- the worst handling gun of this type; it's like handling a brick instead a grip. The Gen 4 have interchangeable backstraps.

 

2.- Ka-Booms!!! even the 9mm. versions are the least guns that has this problems, their have it; a weak chamber that don't allow to to use reloaded ammo and tendency to blow out like a grenade if you don't have a Bar Sto barrel makes for me that it's the most expensive type of saturday night handgun ever made; a Bryco, Jennings or Davis with Steroids it's a Glock for me... :D "tendency to blow out like a grenade if you don't have a bar stol barrel". Afraid I'll have to call you on that, I don't think over 60% of US law enforcement agencies would carry Glocks if that was true.

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Sound to me this article that had be paided by Gaston Glock fans to "convince" that Glock is the best firearm ever; but sorry, the Glocks have 2 important problems that 1911 don't:

 

1.- the worst handling gun of this type; it's like handling a brick instead a grip.

 

2.- Ka-Booms!!! even the 9mm. versions are the least guns that has this problems, their have it; a weak chamber that don't allow to to use reloaded ammo and tendency to blow out like a grenade if you don't have a Bar Sto barrel makes for me that it's the most expensive type of saturday night handgun ever made; a Bryco, Jennings or Davis with Steroids it's a Glock for me... :D

I'm wondering where you got your information.

You statements indicate you probably have very little hands on experience with Glocks.

I was trained as a Glock armorer in '91 and I have a pretty good understanding of the pistol.

I have small hands and I never had any problem with the handling characteristics. Just took a little getting used to.

I stille prefer the 1911 but that's just a personal preference.

I have carried several models of Glocks as an officer both 9mm and 45 acp and had confidence in their ability to function properly. They are strong, innovatively engineered, and well made and I'd bet my life on a Glock any time without reservation.

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If the training was so bad, God help them. The Glock won't fix anything except it is simpler with no manual safety. Maybe that'll help em. I doubt it. I find the whole affair ridiculous. :rolleyes:

I could opine that the Marines don't even need MARSOC and it has been problematic from the git go. But I won't. The article was a hatchet job on the 1911 for sure. Not a lot of research went into it.

Anyway Army Special Forces would be glad to take the hand-me-down 45s.

Oy!

Agree!! Some want sprayers and some want shooters!

Blackfoot

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