stan wayback Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 hello again my good friends , I have a couple sets of BP cap/ball one is a mixed set of open top 1-36 navy and a 44 navy/army and the other is a set of 1858 new army is 44 ... any how was thinkin of pull-in them out of the safe and maybe doing a tune up ,try to soffen those big springs ... but don't see any thing on them any more , not a mention , were these "junk " guns .? .. when I first tried sass back in the nineties this brand was Quite popular .. now that Ive returned to sass after ten plus year, never here or see any thing , Just curious mostly as they been sit in in my safe for over ten years.. they were fun to shoot for someone who couldn't afford real guns like me... STAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Good Morning: Contact Fingers McGee or Driftwood Johnson. A quick look netted this info from a CAS City post: --Dawg ASM was one of the first Italian manufacturers back in 1960 along with Uberti. Replica Arms was the first importer for ASM revolvers, the first being the 1847 Walker. I do remember an article about this first revolver in that it was so exactly copied from an original that even experienced Colt collectors had difficulty in telling the prototype from an original. Changes were made in the production guns to make sure they could not be passed off as an original. Also, ASM use forged frames instead of castings on many of their revolvers.Replica Arms of El Paso, TX was started by L.F. Allen. This was sold and moved to Marietta, OH., and then, in around 1973, was sold to Navy Arms. Allen then started Western Arms which became Allen Arms, and then to Cimarron. I remember that ASM was sold to American Western Arms who only produces cartridge revolvers. ASM attempted to revive its percussion revolvers with limited success and finally closed its doors several years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan wayback Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 WOW , thanks for the history , I do see parts ,lighter springs even cylinders for these guns BUT not with the ASM manufacture ,parts are crossed to gun type like "1851 navy" ,would one say theres a strong chance they would work in ASM brand "1851 navy" ? I even got a lee mold to cast mini BP bullet for 36 cal , but cause the bullet was a tad long to fit in cly loading press on the navy,I never tried it ... thanks Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 No, there is little if any chance "any" parts you currently see, other than springs, that would work in an ASM. ASM was so bad, even ASM parts seldom fit. Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Armi San Marco is still making guns and they are known for making guns with bad workmanship. They make the guns for different companies and the workmanship is terrible. A friend of mine purchased a 1874 Sharps repo made by them a few years back for a Christmas gift for his son. The firing pin broke on the 3 or 4th shot. He took the gun back. They make the guns for Chiappa now and the quality is still the worst out of Italy. I was told a few years back that the other gun makers in Italy approached them and requested that they work harder on the craftsmanship as they were giving the Italian gun makers a bad name. They refused to talk with the others. When Puma started having the 92's made by them instead of Rossi in Brazil, they increased the prices but not the workmanship. All you have to do is go inside of a gun made by them and you will see how bad it is. They thought if they started raising the price on their guns to in the same range as Uberti that all the problems would go away. Didn't happen though. They are the Edsel of the Gun business. Later Fairshake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckaroo #13080 Regulator Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 In the beginning, I had a pair of ASM Colt clones. They were in a nut shell, junk. I considered making a set of lamps out of them but decided to give them away at 1/3 of what I paid for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Armi San Marco is still making guns and they are known for making guns with bad workmanship. They make the guns for different companies and the workmanship is terrible. A friend of mine purchased a 1874 Sharps repo made by them a few years back for a Christmas gift for his son. The firing pin broke on the 3 or 4th shot. He took the gun back. They make the guns for Chiappa now and the quality is still the worst out of Italy. I was told a few years back that the other gun makers in Italy approached them and requested that they work harder on the craftsmanship as they were giving the Italian gun makers a bad name. They refused to talk with the others. When Puma started having the 92's made by them instead of Rossi in Brazil, they increased the prices but not the workmanship. All you have to do is go inside of a gun made by them and you will see how bad it is. They thought if they started raising the price on their guns to in the same range as Uberti that all the problems would go away. Didn't happen though. They are the Edsel of the Gun business. Later Fairshake Hi David, You have the names confused. Armi San Marco and Armi Sport now Chiappa are two different companies. Armi San Marco is out of business. But, Armi Sport is still in business (under a new name). They are two different Italian firearms manufacturing companies. Many folks have made the same mistake, though. I was told by the Chiappa folks, they changed the Armi Sport name to Chiappa because of this confusion. This was sometime in the early 2000's. Unfortunately, ASM also changed their name to Chaparral about the same time. This was when ASM/Chaparral was making the infamous 73's and 66's. To add to the confusion Chiappa did purchase the 92 rifle tooling and left over parts from ASM. They now make a 92 rifles, but it does function better than the old ASM 92's. I do have to give credit to ASM for the fact that most of their reproductions were historically correct. As neat as that would seem it can also be a curse. Their SAA's are a good example. They were based primarily on the early 1st. gens. The problem doing that is the bolt finger like the 1st gens was really sharp and the cams on the hammers were soft. So, they tended to go out of time prematurely, particularly for CAS. The ASM firing pin holes in the recoil shields weren't hardened so they tend to develop a dimple that the primer flows in to binding the cylinder. Both can be fixed just like Colt fixed them in the day. Colt's have firing pin/recoil bushing and hardened pressed in bolt cams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I had a few ASMs in the very early days. Two were pretty good while the third and last was not. Still have one that is now a back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I have two ASM revolvers, both were imports thru EMF. One, an 1851 clone was built of the same parts produced by Uberti when they built the Colt "2nd Gen" percussion revolvers. Its parts will interchange with all 3 of my Colt 2nd Gen 1851, except the barrel... (the pins at the front of the frame are placed differently). I purchased it new from EMF in 1986. The 2nd ASM is a Colt SAA clone, the EMF "Hartford" model. EMF had ASM building them before they switched to Uberti. This gun was thoroughly rebuilt by Oglesby & Oglesby and is a fine revolver... having had the cylinder and hammer re-hardened, and wire springs installed, including the Ruger style coil handspring and plunger. It was the Top Overall prize at a shoot in NM about 1993. (No, I didn't win it... my son beat me in the shoot-off. But, since he doesn't shoot "cowboy" any more... it's part of my backup pair to my main Colt guns). I used to also have an 1858 Remington clone by ASM. It was a good gun... but it went down the road in a swap... as I don't care for the grip frame on the Remingtons. Parts are still available on a limited basis from VTI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I have an ASM Colt clone. 5.5" barrel in .45 Colt. I saw it sitting used at a local gunshop a few years ago for $250 bucks. At that price, I bought it. It has never given me a lick of trouble, and whenever I am at a shoot where I want to do as best I can, it will be in my right holster, with a 3rd Gen Colt in my left. The only thing I don't like about it is that the very tip of the trigger is a little "sharp" compared to a real Colt, and if you try to spin it, it is a little uncomfortable on your finger. But, since we don't spin in SASS, it's not a problem I worry about. On the other hand, I also have an ASM 92 clone. It is a very pretty gun with a 24 octogon barrel and a case hardened receiver. But it's action... Oh, it's action REALLY stank. It was stiff, clunky, and in the words of a couple of different pards, "painful to watch" me trying to use it. It was so bad, I did something I have never done before, or sinse; I had an action job done. Told the gunsmith I did not want a race gun, I just wanted it to work. To be smooth like a real Winchester. I am very pleased with what i got. The thing now runs great, and I enjoy shooting it when I do. I also don't hestate to loan it to others. It's not my "go to" rifle, (that is an AWA Lightning) but now that it's been worked on, it's a nice one. So based upon my experience, ASM is a solid hit or a wide miss. If you see one for sale someplace, check it out carefully before you buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I shot ASM 58's in my early years. I got them from EMF. I also had 2 spare cylinders. The guns worked flawlessly in stock form when I sold them. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Recently heard a story about ASM, that they moved out of the big city to a smaller town in the country. A lot of their workers did not want to move out of town where all the gun makers were located, so ASM lost a lot of their talent which started their quality problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos John Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 My first cowboy pistol was an ASM EMF Hartford in .357, bought new in about '95 or '96. I haven't had a lick of trouble out of it, other than losing the ejector housing screw. Then, I took it to a gunhack who buggered the threads. I still shot it without the ejector, and got pretty good at ejecting shells with a nail on a leather thong. I have replacements now, but I keep it around as a back-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Thanks for clearing that up for me Steve, I do know however that the 74's made by the Chiappa are having problems. I noticed in the latest Taylors catalog that they are also using the name Armi in front of the Chiappa name in that catalog. Later David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattV Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 well, few years ago I visited a gun shop in Brescia "Palmetto" and I was looking for the double gun they were selling (Chaparral Sidebyside) . Turned out the Chaparral "factory" was just across the street and run by the gun shop's son . It was just the size of a small outfit, like 4-5 people there and I saw mostly lever rifles parts (might be they got their pistol from other sources). It was like 1-2 years before they went out of businnes. Chiappa (I visited them too) it a totally different story, rather "big" factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 I have a pair of ASM-made and marked, EMF Hartford Colt reproduction revolvers in .45 Colt, 5 1/2" barrels. I've never had any problems with them. These two revolvers just feel better ergonomically than either the Uberti .357's or the USFA .38 Special revolvers I have. Both sets of these .38 revolvers seem just a bit smaller in the grips and frames than the ASM .45's. I've been told these ASM revolvers' parts interchange with Colt 1st generation. I've heard the stories of ASM's being of poor quality, however these two .45's are very nice. Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Newt # 7365 Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 My first cowboy pistol was an ASM EMF Hartford in .357, bought new in about '95 or '96. I haven't had a lick of trouble out of it, other than losing the ejector housing screw. Then, I took it to a gunhack who buggered the threads. I still shot it without the ejector, and got pretty good at ejecting shells with a nail on a leather thong. I have replacements now, but I keep it around as a back-up. Same here, EMF Hartford 45s, circa 95-96. I shot them for five years until I got my Colts and they worked fine. Of course, I didn't run them like the hot shoes. I shoot them once in a while for old times' sake, and have loaned them out many times, with no problems. I think the ASMs from around that time were pretty good guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 We spotted this boxed ASM Walker at a pawn and gun shop at a price I couldn't pass up. I took to to a gunshop that has a lot of cowboy guns. The owner was very knowledgeable about his business. He knew the early production were quality gun and at some point there was a move and or change of management and quality went in the crapper. He examined the gun and proclaimed it one of the good ones and made me a really good offer that I applied to a like new in box NMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventura Slim, SASS #35690 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 I like pistols with ponies on the grips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 ... He knew the early production were quality gun and at some point there was a move and or change of management and quality went in the crapper. ... They moved the factory from where all the other factories are to a more remote area and some of the workers didn't want to leave their home so they lost a lot of expertise. Or something like that. I wasn't there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 I have an ASM made, Cimarron marked, 1860 Richards. Not Richards Mason, but Richards like Tom Selleck had in "Sabre River". It is THE most accurate handgun I've ever fired. A few years ago the trigger just wore out. I called VTI. and they sent me a Pietta trigger which fit just fine. It wears Pietta gripframe screws, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 I like pistols with ponies on the grips. Then you must like AWA Peacekeepers (made by Armi San Marco), right? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Then you must like AWA Peacekeepers (made by Armi San Marco), right? :P Didn't Colt threaten to sue ASM because of they're use of a "pony" on the grip? The Colt uses a "rampant" pony where the ASM is a pony just standing. I don't know whatever happened to that lawsuit or maybe it was just a rumor? I had a Peacekeeper ASM and also a Longhorn in .45, never had trouble with them but I didn't have them very long, I sold them and bought my first Colt! Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 I have owned a dozen or more 1860 Army copies. The only real lemon was an ASM. It could not be made to run. Most of the pieces are in a ziploc bag saved for what purpose I don't know. I've thought I might make a lamp out of it one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Ryw, they sued, but I thought it was because "people would see PeaceKEEPER and think it was a PeaceMAKER". Claimed copyright infringement. While the Colt has been called the Peacemaker forever, I don't think Colt ever used the name. Be like suing Ruger if they called one of their 1911 models "Old Slabsides", or Uberti over their new 1873 "Thumbuster". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pay Dirt Norvelle #90056 Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 The only Armi San Marcos gun I have a repro 1858 Remington that I bought in the early 1980s and it works fine. Of course it is one of the old ones which may be the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Ryw, they sued, but I thought it was because "people would see PeaceKEEPER and think it was a PeaceMAKER". Claimed copyright infringement. While the Colt has been called the Peacemaker forever, I don't think Colt ever used the name. Be like suing Ruger if they called one of their 1911 models "Old Slabsides", or Uberti over their new 1873 "Thumbuster". Actually it was because of the pony on the grips AND the name, Colt won the lawsuit. I remember this because I had a pair of them at the time this came up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawhorse Kid Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I have an ASM By Traditions, got in '99. To date I have only had two minor issues with it: - 1) the firing pin retainer had to tapped in a bit as dragged on the frame very mildly, local smith fixed that in 2 seconds. - 2) a few of the triggergaurd and backstrap screw heads have flaked a bit...cosmetic only so far. This gun has otherwise been great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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