Buffalo Bill Mathewson, 37826 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I was at a club shoot yesterday that had one stage with a split rifle string. The rifle was loaded with 10 rounds. Shooting string was shoot 5 rifle rounds re-stage shoot 1st pistol re-stage shoot rifle rounds 6 through 10 restage, shoot 2nd pistol re-stage then 4 shotgun. It was interesting to say the least.
Charlie Whiskers Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I was at a local shoot out of state this last year. They had one stage with split rifle. Started with your pistols at position 1 then rifle shooting 5 at position 2, then move laterally to a 3nd position and finish the last 5. Ended the stage with shotgun also at 3. No P's or safeties on anyone in my posse. Everyone moved with the muzzle pointed downrange. Not sure about the other posse. It was different but kinda fun for a change up.
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I rote one once, shoot 5 and move and shoot 5, but it was optional for a 5 or 10 second bonus,,,,, one experienced shoot took a SDQ for movement with cocked hammer,,, BUT, it was his choice!!!
Tom Bullweed Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Having many local clubs, I am not sure that I would shoot again at a club that did this. I like a certain amount of challenges, but this is just asking for safeties and Ps.
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I was at a club shoot yesterday that had one stage with a split rifle string. The rifle was loaded with 10 rounds. Shooting string was shoot 5 rifle rounds re-stage shoot 1st pistol re-stage shoot rifle rounds 6 through 10 restage, shoot 2nd pistol re-stage then 4 shotgun. It was interesting to say the least. Poor stage writing.
Kid Drover Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Every time we shoot a stage for the first time, and it takes a little thinking, it is going to increase the amount of "P's". We move with our Shotguns all the time, so muzzle control should not be a problem. If we were are honest with ourselves, the first time we shot a 1-3-1, we had to concentrate fiercely not to get a "P". The first time any new sequence, or twist in our normal routine, is shot, it increases the "P" factor. Just because we have shot for a couple of years, it shouldn't mean nothing new should be introduced. I like the new stuff. However, I would like to do it several times during one year, so I can get my revenge on the "first time" I had to shoot it.
Grizzly Dave Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Shoot five, move, shoot the other five, no problem, just have to review the rules for safe condition of rifle to move in hand. Shoot five, lay it down is something totally different, gotta open the lever, yes? Then a live round in on the carrier, plus live rounds left in the magazine, by stage instructions you shoot another gun then go back to it. Seems like the stage is telling you to break the rules to me. I like new stuff, but not that.
Tn Tombstone Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I dont even like split pistols, probably would not go back if I had to shoot a stage like this. There is no time to get the rhythm going. And I really need rhythm And like Griz points out, live round on the carrier, gun leaves the shooter hand, too much opportunity to really screw up,if the lever were to close as you transition there is a stage DQ. If the round on the carrier falls out when you transition theres a re-load and it had better not be the round the just fell out of your rifle.
Ace_of_Hearts Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Shoot five, move, shoot the other five, no problem, just have to review the rules for safe condition of rifle to move in hand. Shoot five, lay it down is something totally different, gotta open the lever, yes? NO! Page 16 of your RO-I handbook. Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or spent round, action closed (restaged for further use) Then a live round in on the carrier, plus live rounds left in the magazine, by stage instructions you shoot another gun then go back to it. Seems like the stage is telling you to break the rules to me. I like new stuff, but not that.
Buffalo Bill Mathewson, 37826 Posted February 24, 2015 Author Posted February 24, 2015 Shoot five, move, shoot the other five, no problem, just have to review the rules for safe condition of rifle to move in hand. Shoot five, lay it down is something totally different, gotta open the lever, yes? Then a live round in on the carrier, plus live rounds left in the magazine, by stage instructions you shoot another gun then go back to it. Seems like the stage is telling you to break the rules to me. I like new stuff, but not that. Griz, These were my questions before the start of the stage. Right or wrong the decision was made to leave the hammer down on expended round #5. On a 73 that leaves an empty in the chamber and a live round in the carrier. To my way of thinking the guy that forgot and didn't stop until he shot all 10 rounds earned the smallest penalty count, a 10 second P.
Grizzly Dave Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Ace - I stand corrected, but still seems counter-intuitive to me. But, spelled out at time of stage reading, I guess I'd doable. Don't mean I like it.
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 • Rifle Safe to leave the shooters hands. • Empty, action open • Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or spent round, action closed (restaged for further use) RO1 p.16
Buffalo Bill Mathewson, 37826 Posted February 24, 2015 Author Posted February 24, 2015 Ace and Pale Wolf are correct. I stand corrected. Thanks BTW It was a cold day and only 8 shooters showed up. Only one earned a P for not stopping hammer down on round 5 so he continued through all 10 rounds. that works out to 12% Ps
Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 On a 73 that leaves an empty in the chamber and a live round in the carrier. Wrong. There's no way to have an empty in the chamber and a live round in (on) the carrier. While the stage described in the OP sounds a little complicated I sure wouldn't avoid that club because of it. As a stage writer for over 10 years I wrote quite a few stages that people hated. Some of them I HATED, too. I was just trying to add some variety. Some of those "experimental" stages died a quick death, never to see the light of day ever again. Others got resurrected from time to time to lighten things up.
Ace_of_Hearts Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 On a 66/73 as soon as you load one (1) round, there is a round "on the carrier". Loading a second round pushes the first round into the magazine an so on. Until the gun loads the last round, their is always a "round on the carrier" as long as the carrier is in the down position. Every time we pull the trigger (except for the last round) their is a round sitting and waiting patiently to ascend on that pesky carrier. That being said......... Writing a stage that goes against everything the shooter has practiced for years to do, is asking for trouble. Try writing a stage with 4 in each pistol with a single reload somewhere in the string and see if you can avoid the hangman's noose.
G W Wade Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 On a 73 that leaves an empty in the chamber and a live round in the carrier. Wrong. There's no way to have an empty in the chamber and a live round in (on) the carrier. While the stage described in the OP sounds a little complicated I sure wouldn't avoid that club because of it. As a stage writer for over 10 years I wrote quite a few stages that people hated. Some of them I HATED, too. I was just trying to add some variety. Some of those "experimental" stages died a quick death, never to see the light of day ever again. Others got resurrected from time to time to lighten things up. What ace-of-hearts said
Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 What ace-of-hearts said Action closed, empty in chamber. Carrier up with bolt locked across top groove. Second round in magazine, resting until carrier is dropped by action being levered open. When action is opened, empty is ejected, carrier is dropped and next round is pushed onto carrier by magazine spring. Upon closing of lever, carrier is raised and bolt is closed, pushing fresh round into chamber. Where am I wrong here?
Ace_of_Hearts Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 It seems your rifle operates different than everyone else's. When the action is closed, the carrier drops, unless there is a malfunction. This loads a round in/on the carrier. When the action is opened the carrier rises and the top of the carrier acts as an ejector to propel the round high in the air, and positions the next round for insertion.......
Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 It seems your rifle operates different than everyone else's. When the action is closed, the carrier drops, unless there is a malfunction. This loads a round in/on the carrier. When the action is opened the carrier rises and the top of the carrier acts as an ejector to propel the round high in the air, and positions the next round for insertion....... It's late and now you're forcing me to get dressed and get the rifle out of the safe to confirm what is happening. Thanks alot! Lol
Ace_of_Hearts Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 It's late and now you're forcing me to get dressed and get the rifle out of the safe to confirm what is happening. Thanks alot! Lol Now that's funny right there!
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 It used to be a lot more common place to move with rifle and pistol(s). We have gotten so accustomed to shooting 10-10-4 with very little variation that we bitch and moan about anything out of the ordinary. Maybe we were just smarter back in the late 90's, early 2000's? Shoot the messenger if you want to, but we had a lot more folks shooting back then, too. Maybe there was a reason?
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I never shot a scenario where you layed rifle Dow n during string but shot plenty when I first started where you moved positions, I always moved with hammer down on empty as opposed to lever open . I really miss the shoot move we use to.do AO
Wyatt Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I never shot a scenario where you layed rifle Dow n during string but shot plenty when I first started where you moved positions, I always moved with hammer down on empty as opposed to lever open . I really miss the shoot move we use to.do AO I predict some "Old School" in the near future
Michigan Slim Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I like a stage where the shooter has to actually think about what they are doing.
Justin O Lawman,SASS#7672 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 It used to be a lot more common place to move with rifle and pistol(s). We have gotten so accustomed to shooting 10-10-4 with very little variation that we bitch and moan about anything out of the ordinary. Maybe we were just smarter back in the late 90's, early 2000's? Shoot the messenger if you want to, but we had a lot more folks shooting back then, too. Maybe there was a reason? Amen!!!! It seems like the action is almost gone in Cowboy Action Shooting. Too many stages of stand and deliver !!!!!
Cheatin' Chamberlin Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 When I first starting shooting CAS in 2006 there was a lot of stand and deliver. But to me that seems to be going away these days. I really enjoy shootin & movin. I write most of the stages for our local club. I very rarely write a stand and deliver stage. I have some cowboys that need a cain to move. I ask them on a regular basis if it is to much movement. I get the same answer they enjoy with or without the movement. The Florida State match this year had a lot of different shootin scenarios with A LOT of movement. You could tell that movement and shootin something different was on the stage writers mind. I have always wanted to write a stage with a split rifle. I am glad to see this thread about it. So I can see the pro's & con's from that type of stage. Cheatin'
Lead Ringer Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Lots of things can be done to "add action" to "cowboy action". Activator targets, knock down targets, swinging targets, can/clay throwers, down range movement, split pistols, etc, etc. Split rifle? I've shot them before, I'm not a fan of it! Just adds a layer of thinking and work on the TO's. O.K. For little monthly I guess? Wouldn't want to see it at a bigger shoot! View from my saddle. Regards, Ringer
jrswanson1 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I'd like to see more rifle reloading on the clock. Shoot five rounds through the rifle, shoot five rounds through the pistols, load five rounds in the rifle and shoot, finish with pistols.
Most Wanted Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I'd like to see more rifle reloading on the clock. Shoot five rounds through the rifle, shoot five rounds through the pistols, load five rounds in the rifle and shoot, finish with pistols. Timed with a Calender.
Cheatin' Chamberlin Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Timed with a Calender. I would have to agree with that one. A single reload is ok, but a 5 round reload would be kind of lengthy. I have tried pistol reloads on stages, they were not well received by the hometown crowd. Cheatin'
Charlie Whiskers Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 A single rifle reload on the clock is ok. I've seen it written as after you shoot the 10th round do your reload OR load the 11th round anytime after the buzzer. My 73's will hold 11 38's so when it's anytime after the beep, I load it before or as I pick up the rifle. Pistol reloads on the clock....no....reloads after the stage is done and off the clock for a bonus shot or shots is fine.
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I never shot a scenario where you layed rifle Dow n during string but shot plenty when I first started where you moved positions, I always moved with hammer down on empty as opposed to lever open . I really miss the shoot move we use to.do AO We shot 5 moved and shot 5 more from the rifle a couple of months ago at Roughshod. We used to do it all the time back in the Hatbill days. I can remember plenty of stages where we shot triple taps from 3 locations with the rifle. We used to do it with the pistols as well......shoot 3 from the doorway and 2 from the window. I hope we see more of it....... Stan
jrswanson1 Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 One of the first matches I attended involved loading 3 rounds on the clock. Not too bad with the Henry but the newer style lever gun owners had problems. Any one with any sense brought five or six rounds with them, which was fortunate since some flipped cartridges out and they ended up on the ground.
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