Black Powder Reloading

[Aunt Jen]

Hi all. Okay. This is not me, starting this thread; this is someone who looks like me. So if you're tired of hearing about Aunt Jen asking about this stuff, then it won't hurt my feelings.

 

I know I've said a hundred times I do not want to reload, but but but...

 

My simple, innocent, well-minded question about shooting a Sharps has brought me to a LOT of info about how it would have a better (rolling instead of sharp) recoil if I shot BP, and that is WAY too expensive at $80 a box or whatever it is to buy, so the only way to do it, over the longer term, is to reload my own BP.

 

It should be obvious I don't know what I'm doing. But it should also be obvious I've learned a lot from such a bleak starting place. Thank you all for sharing.

 

So I'm thinking, "Oh, no _)&^*%%)*(*_%%&%%)_+)(*(_+_+|_*_&(*%%$##$@@@#$%%^," but then I think all I'd have to do is learn it for the .45-70 Black Powder, and then I think, "Oh, no @#$%^, If I'm set up I might as well do it for .45 LC also," and then I'm spending lots of time doing that instead of the other hundred things I also need to do in life. Ugh.

 

Now I already have a Dillon 550, which I've never used. It's not even assembled. But I talked with someone who said, though, that he thought I shouldn't even reload BP in a Dillon because something in it could cause a spark with BP?

 

So QUESTIONS:

 

(1) IF I went ahead and got into loading BP in .45-70 reloading, what reloader should be used?

 

(2) IF I learn and get set up for #1, then how much of a leap is it to also do my own .45 LCs?

 

(3) I don't shoot that often. Sometimes, and sometimes more than other times. But is this savings in reloading actually going to offset the cost of the reloader and the time spent learning, gearing up, etc., as opposed to just buying the shells?

 

(I shoot .45s for CC.)

 

Thank you.

[Calico Mary]

Aunt Jen, I fer wun am glad yu started this thread! Not that I kin help yu any, but I'z interested in whut kinda answers yu mite git from those that kin. My husband duz all our loadin', I dunt have a clue how it's dun, but I'z interested in shootin' BP at sum point, and I kinda git tha idea ifn' I wanna do it I'z gonna hafta learn how ta do it myself.....and then there's tha tiny little detail bout learnin' howta clean my own gunz tuu..... but I still have hope!!

[Aunt Jen]

On purchases of .45-70 BP cartridges, I see http://www.midwayusa.com/product/559254/goex-black-dawge-black-powder-ammunition-45-70-government-405-grain-lead-flat-nose-box-of-20 at $36 a box, but it's discontinued.

 

Here it is for $35 a box of 20, but it's not BP. http://www.powderrivercartridge.com/Bulk-45-70-Govt-p/4570g350-1.htm

 

Here's a hevy round, not in stock, no back order, at $51 a box. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/840502/ten-x-cowboy-ammunition-45-70-government-500-grain-flat-point-bpc-box-of-20

 

.......... So maybe I'm asking the wrong question about BP.

 

Maybe I just need to go shoot a .45-70 a few times WITHOUT BP and see how it feels?

 

What do you all think?

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Once you go black

You will never go back !

 

You Have Been Warned !!!

[Aunt Jen]

Aunt Jen, I fer wun am glad yu started this thread! Not that I kin help yu any, but I'z interested in whut kinda answers yu mite git from those that kin. My husband duz all our loadin', I dunt have a clue how it's dun, but I'z interested in shootin' BP at sum point, and I kinda git tha idea ifn' I wanna do it I'z gonna hafta learn how ta do it myself.....and then there's tha tiny little detail bout learnin' howta clean my own gunz tuu..... but I still have hope!!

Hi Mary.

 

First of all, you're a Jedi Gunfighter, so... I can't compete! Grats! I'm CC, in .45, double duelist, which is GF-qualified, but it's CC, so it's not. Uh!

 

You can learn to assemble/disassemble your own guns. First, you have to go to M.I.T. and get a chip installed in your brain. It's an experimental program for people who want to disassemble their guns. Then you read the manual, look at YouTube videos on whatever process you're interested in, Put on a Football re-run in the next room with some specially prepared guacamole dip (it'll put him in an altered state of mind, so he won't notice), and then go at it , slowly, safely.

 

Me? I found a relevant, detailed youtube video on my iPad, and put my iPad on my work bench, and went through it step by step with the video. Somehow it worked, and I put up a thread about it, here. I DO RECOMMEND the process, as you'll likely love your guns more, if you know how they work. Basically, it's empowering, as opposed to shutting off the T.V., taking away the guacamole dip, and then asking the angry husband to come help you.

 

Enjoy.

[Aunt Jen]

Oh, Calico Mary! ALSO, when I learned to disassemble my own revolvers, I put in some Super Blackhawk Hammers for single-hand operation, and they're MUCH BETTER, easier. A perk.

[Calico Mary]

but I think it'z only fair that ifn' I learn ta clean my own gunz then he shud learn ta iron his own clothes.....

[Aunt Jen]

Once you go black

You will never go back !

 

You Have Been Warned !!!

Like--- Let me see, what was that documentary? "Trading Places"? with Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd?

[Aunt Jen]

Ah, well, there's fiction, and then there's pure fantasy.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I load everything from .32 S&W to .45-90-BP ammo on my D550.

You chg the BP cases off press-

You will need a drop tube and a compression die for the BP rifle loads.

OLG

[Flying W Ramrod]

Aunt Jen

Just typed a long private message and tried to send it. SASS says you can't receive any more messages.

Is your mail box full?

[Aunt Jen]

Hi Flying,

 

I just went in and deleted all the messages from before. I don't know if it was full, maybe it was. But it should be open now. I'm glad to hear what you have to say.

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

Aunt Jen, find a reloader in your local club who likes beer.

 

Find out what kinda beer he likes.

 

Take him the powder, bullets, and cases, with a case of beer.

 

Problem solved.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

If you get a hold of the book I recommended, Mike Venturino's Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West, it well teach you all you need to know about loading 45-70 (or any of the other single shot buffalo gun cartridges) with Black Powder.Generally speaking, loading Black Powder is easy as pie. Fill the case with enough powder so that when the bullet is seated it compresses the powder by 1/16" - 1/8". And use a bullet that has plenty of BP compatible lube. Loading single shot cartridges for accuracy is a bit more complicated. Drop tube, compression die, and a card wad between the powder and the bullet. Buy Mike's book and all will become clear. Out of print now, but if you google it you will find a copy.

 

Here is a vendor that has it.

 

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/273/1/BOOK-SBROW

 

By the way, Venturino's other books, Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West, Shooting Sixguns of the Old West, and Shooting Colt Single Actions, all have instructions on how to load 'pistol cartridges' with Black Powder. Not quite as fussy as the Buffalo cartridges.

 

You can find them at Amazon. The only thing I disagree with Mike about pistol cartridges is he uses a drop tube for pistol cartridges. Not necessary for CAS loads.

 

I ain't gonna get into the feeding frenzy about what kind of press to use. I use an old single stage press for 45-70, A Hornady Lock & Load AP for everything else. I pop a Black Powder powder measure on the machine when I am loading BP.

[Aunt Jen]

Okay. I'll order it off Amazon.

[Aunt Jen]

But I'm beginning to think all this may be more time consuming than I have to spend. Other things in life take most of my time.

 

so MODIFY QUESTION:

 

WHERE IS THE CHEAPEST PLACE TO BUY .45-70 IN BP for SASS Long Range?

[Warden Callaway]

You may try asking black powder shooters at your club if they would load you some. They may do it as a labor of love plus cost of components. Surely you're not thinking of shooting hundreds.

[Yusta B.]

Aunt Jen,

I suggest you find a local shooter & talk them into spending a little range time with you so you can actually shoot some rifle(s) to see what the recoil is going to be like. If possible, BP loads. You have a lot of good information, but no actual experience with these rifles. This is a fairly big step into some really different shooting.

[Aunt Jen]

You know what? YOU'RE RIGHT.

 

I've been thinking I'd get it all sorted out afore-hand, what I'd shoot, loads, BP or not..., and then buy a gun to fit, and be self-sufficient with my loading/reloading, but that's not going to work for me.

 

BETTER WAY:

 

I think I should change my approach. I think I should keep an interested eye on these LR guns, likely Sharps, and then when I find one I like, get it, and then if I find someone at the club who will load me some, do so (pay him if he'd like, someone joked beer, lol ), and and if not, then I could just buy something now and then that works.

 

To be real good at LR, though, I'd need to standardize my ammo, but maybe that level is down the road.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Once you go black

You will never go back !

 

You Have Been Warned !!!

Not true!!! I've gone back to smokeless after 8 years of BP. I got tired of the extra expense, time and cleaning. I shot smokeless for 10 years and I feel like I'm comin' back home!

 

Rye

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

You know what? YOU'RE RIGHT.

 

I've been thinking I'd get it all sorted out afore-hand, what I'd shoot, loads, BP or not..., and then buy a gun to fit, and be self-sufficient with my loading/reloading, but that's not going to work for me.

 

BETTER WAY:

 

I think I should change my approach. I think I should keep an interested eye on these LR guns, likely Sharps, and then when I find one I like, get it, and then if I find someone at the club who will load me some, do so (pay him if he'd like, someone joked beer, lol ), and and if not, then I could just buy something now and then that works.

 

To be real good at LR, though, I'd need to standardize my ammo, but maybe that level is down the road.

 

I wasn't joking about the beer. I don't personally drink, but most people do.

 

And, as it's technically illegal to reload for monetary compensation without an FFL, besides not being the way most cowboys operate...

 

The beer and the supplies would probably put you on the right track. Maybe a bottle of something finer...

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Aunt Jen,

 

I own a sewing machine and a Dillon 550. The 550 is easier to run than the sewing machine. Get the press set up for production of the .45 Colts. You'll never run out of ammo again. A half hour's work will produce enough ammo for a one day match. Like Driftwood I load my 45-70s on a single stage press. It's just not worth the bother setting up the 550 for the small numbers of 45-70 rounds I shoot.

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

But you can do the basics on the Dillon! De-cap, prime, and bell. Off the dillon, charge, press in over powder wad, then return to Dillon. Set up a die or on a separate tool head to compress and seat bullet. Crimping is not needed or desired for single shots and blackpowder.

[Aunt Jen]

What kind of reloading press is advisable for .45-70 BP?

[Lunger]

A single stage works just fine. Rcbs rockchucker is what I use.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Don't let anyone tell you that reloading saves you money. They're lying to you and to themselves. When I started reloading I was certain I would save money as well. It's true that the cost per round is less, but you'll shoot so much that you'll eat up those savings in no time. And that's not counting time and effort sent. I'll tell you the same thing the gun store owner told me when I bought my press. If you a reloading to save money, get a second job instead. Otherwise plan to have a time and money consuming hobby instead

[Yul Lose]

I use a RCBS turret press for all of my 40-65, 38-55 and other low volume loading.

[Warden Callaway]

Loading for BP single shot buffalo rifles need not be complicated. Things you have to do to make ammo for a repeating rifle are not necessary for single shot rifles. Think of them as one evolution step past a muzzle loader. In fact, many early single shot breach loaders were made from muzzle loaders or from paper cartridge breach loaders.

 

All you need is a decaping pin, way to seat new primer, powder scoop of correct size and bullets. Cases don't have to be sized because you're only firing them in one gun. The bullets don't have to be tight in the case because they are going to be slid into the chamber by hand and not fed through a magazine. I've fired many round through my Henry Martini 450/577 by using one case. Just knock out spent primer, lay the gun on its side, place new primer on flat of receiver, tap brass to drive it in. Fill with Fg black. Then seat bullet on top by hand. Shoot, repeat.

[Wagon Box Willy]

I would buy a Lee Anniversary Press and dies. FS Reloading has the press kit for $109 and dies for $31. Single stage press is great for 45/70 reloading. You can use the included powder measure for your BP if you're worried about sparks. When you decide to load 45Colt you can either use the Lee press or set up the 550. By then at least you'll have experience with the single stage press.

 

The setup and learning curve with the Lee single stage press isn't long and shouldn't take up too much of your time.

[Michigan Slim]

OK Jen. You say you can tear apart a gun and put it back together with the help of a video. You say you have a 550B not set up. Do the exact same thing you did to learn your gun. Get the above referanced book(s), Watch some Youtube vids, set up that dang reloader and go! It's so easy a cowboy can do it! And we will be here for you every step of the way.

There aint many calibers you can't load on that press. I load 17 different calibers in mine. By reading a book, the manual and watching Youtube vids. It really is that easy.

All you need is a good rock solid bench to mount it on. Find a shooter that reloads and buy their kind of beer to help with the bench. Then throw them out.

 

If you want me to get my daughter Kaya on here to tell you the this I will! She's 14 and has been reloading for two years.

 

 

And one more thing. Black powder is nasty! Start with smokeless. When you start send me a PM. I'll get permission to give you Kaya's .45-70 load.

[Tombstone Tex]

I suppose I have to agree with bighipiron on this one. One day I decided to do some math... ...anyway, I shoot 45 colt and load on a 550. Turns out I save about $350 per thousand rounds I shoot. I'd say thats a nice savings, even if my math is wrong....but man do I shoot much more. Same with the other calibers I shoot, as a for instance, 45 acp...never tried that match problem but I sat down one night and cranked out 400 rounds. Between my brother and I, we got rid of those that same weekend. Boom, just couldn't resist putting my booger hook all over the bang switch haha.

 

But it does take some time for sure to go ahead and sit down to reload. That only took me an hour, but to be fair, I had other things to do and didn't want to reload, so finding the time to reload sometimes is challenging. But for me, it hurts a lot less than spending about 40 dollars for a box of 50.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Ask around at your local club to have someone show you how they reload - both on a 550 - which is VERY common and loading black powder. It will be and interesting education and you can decide from there.

 

Reloading does take a little time, but with a 550, you can load up a bunch to last quite a while.

 

Loading Black powder is a little slower but also very simple once you see.

 

Don't buy a another loader for BP until you are sure you want to try it. Then buy a used Lee or RCBS - folks sell them cheaply all the time since they move up to progressives. Lots of them setting in basements, etc unused, but in great shape.

 

For long range, you do not go through as much ammo, so you could probably find a local source as others have mentioned.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Howdy Aunt Jen;

 

If you are considering loading Black powder the .40-65 is cheaper to load than the .45-70 and as easy to do, fill the case up 1/8 over where the bullet base will be seat bullet. Done.

[Blackey Cole]

Aunt Jen first find some one that will educate you on reloading, ideally you learn on the 45 colt using smokeless then move on to the 45-70 with bp. The warning was wise for must bp and subs. There's one exception that can be reloaded safely and easier than the others and that's American Pioneer Powder (APP) it isn't as hydro static as the rest read several of capt Baylors articles on bp for dummies on his web site or in one of the old cowboy chronica ls. But I load my long range and plainesman ammo on my rcbs single stage rather than my dillon 550 for reasons of powder load Presision over speed. I through a load using a measure by volume over by weight and then hand start the bullet then seat the bullets of all the cases before switching to the crimping die and completing the round with a factory crimp. I use a fc die for the same reason the factory does it makes the rounds more consistent than without. And bp pushes in recoil where with smokeless it's like you know a very sharp recoil. What is next learning to reload shotshells?

[Aunt Jen]

Okay.

 

I'm getting that I could truly do it with some effort. I'm getting that it's cheaper, maybe half of bought, but that with also the cost of the press and maybe cheaper I may shoot more...

 

Not sure if I will, though.

 

I had that 550 sitting here fir a few years, didn't use it, but hubby was dying. He's gone 3 years, now, and I'm getting organized a bit.

 

Time: I do have other things to do, things that are time consuming. I DO have the time to reload, but it'd be an adjustment in priorities. I tend to be an over-achiever in life. There are actually several other things I keep busy with. (Frankly, I'd tell u, but I've had an intermittent stalker for a couple decades, hence a big part of my privacy, and I font want to inform there.)

 

You all have been WINDERFUL, but I am thinking I need time, here. Tge time issue is as important as the cost.

 

I'm thinking you all have gotten me off to a good start. I need to let it soak in. I need to just pay more attention to all this---BP, reloading---and see what I grow into.

 

I'm thinking that I should keep my 550 for now, do nothing with it. I believe my INTEREST will guide me, e.g., it may direct me to it as I go along.

 

I am thankful for you all. I know you'd be helpful if I got stuck. I know I could make the time. I know it'd be cheaper if I didn't shoot more, but it's unlikely I'd shoot real often. I don't do SASS for the shooting, mostly. I do it for historical connection, the time machine aspect, my heritage, even remembrance, as I used to do it with Painless.

 

Knowing me: . After I get a bit mire caught up on things, I'm likely to creep into it! because I'm just a curious sort. I'll probably find myself with time, a gun show, and I'd go, and they'd be selling bits. Who knows.

 

Thank you