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Quigley Rifle?


Aunt Jen

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I own a 38-55 and there are two different specs or types of 38-55 chambers one is slightly longer iirc. But once you load for it and find the billet, and owl plus load that works you good to go. Nice thing about big bullets like the 38-55 and others you don't shoot the same amount as you do I. The main match so you don't need as many and can load these on a single stage for accuracy or you can run them out on a progressive like your main match. For plainsman I run them on the my dillon 550 but if I was going for distance I'd be loading them one at a time on my rcbs Rock chucker.

 

Before you buy any gun try someone's out at WR or EOT or any long range event. Not every gun works for every one. And getting a shotgun pad installed then covering it with a butt pad isn't a bad ideal. If I start shooting something that kicks I dang sure be getting a shotgun pad and if the rules allow a recoil dampener.

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Howdy,

Deal with all that recoil right into the operation room.

 

Why not get a fashionable lookin rifle and have it chambered in good old 3030?

Get a dozen 45-110 shiney brass shells and have em loaded or empty and you can

wear em on a fine leather belt and look like a rock star.

 

Best

CR

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I would not go greater than the .45-70, Im' sure. I don't want to hurt myself, and it could.

 

QUESTION: Why are accuracy rifles one-shot? Why does it matter that it not be a lever action? Once it's chambered, you hold still to fire. Why does it matter that it be chambered by hand one at a time?

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From the pictures you posted on your original post it seems that the Quigley being offered by Cabelas is a match fot the Billy Dixon Sharps I bought dirctly from Pedersoli Close to 25 years ago. This rifle is one of the best shooters I have and it's quality is top rate. After all these years it is still one of my favorite rifles, especially since it mounts the 1" diameter barrel instead of the 1 and 1/4" barrel most Shilohs come with. The weight difference and better balance make a huge change in how the rifle feels in your hands, especially as I have gotten older. I can still shoot offhand well as long as I don't take too long to set up the shot. :):)

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Ah! I know how to ask about the .45-70 405 kick:

 

I can shoot 12 gua shotguns, but I Don't Like To. I prefer AA, lighter.

 

Does that help?

A 40-65 or 38-55 sounds best.

But since you don't reload get a 45-70.

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Hi Jabez.

 

On the .40-65, I do not reload. How available is .40-65 ammo? And what make rifles do u recommend?

To get any real use out of those calibers, your gonna have to start reloading.

Pretty much the same deal for SASS or any shooting competition.

IF, you find any preloaded ammo-It will be very expensive.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/.42_.45_caliber_black_powder_ammunition_pr-4443.aspx?CAT=4443

OLG

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I would not go greater than the .45-70, Im' sure. I don't want to hurt myself, and it could.

 

QUESTION: Why are accuracy rifles one-shot? Why does it matter that it not be a lever action? Once it's chambered, you hold still to fire. Why does it matter that it be chambered by hand one at a time?

No lever was ever chambered for the .45-110.

No lever can shoot as 'tight' as a well made single shot can. Study, Harry Pope and his guns.

OLG

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I would not go greater than the .45-70, Im' sure. I don't want to hurt myself, and it could.

 

QUESTION: Why are accuracy rifles one-shot? Why does it matter that it not be a lever action? Once it's chambered, you hold still to fire. Why does it matter that it be chambered by hand one at a time?

 

Partly because the first accurate ones were single shot. And partly because the first repeaters weren't. And partly because even the best repeaters do things to the bullet as they move it.

 

And partly because it's not really true any more that accuracy rifles are single shot.

 

Repeaters often have chambers designed to deal with bulk ammo. The most accurate rifles have tight chambers because they give the best accuracy with ammo made to fit. As for hand chambering.... It removes the automation that demands chambers designed to deal with less than perfect ammo fit.

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I would not go greater than the .45-70, Im' sure. I don't want to hurt myself, and it could.

 

........

 

Your upper limit, 45-70, can hurt too. It's not just the caliber that matters. Recoil is fairly simple. It comes from 4 factors: weight of the bullet, speed of the bullet, weight of the powder (honest), and weight of the firearm.

 

A buddy of mine got a hellofa deal on a 45-70 that was gorgeous and in perfect condition and did I mention cheap? It beat the hell out of him. It was a light weight "Sharps". And he wanted to shoot Silhouette where you didn't shoot offhand all the time. 45-70 shooters in that event often use the heavier bullets to improve on the pistol like ballistics of the usual 45-70 loads that use the popular "lighter" slugs. To shoot any cartridge at a big steel ram target at 500 or so yards with any hope to knock the sucker over, you want the heavier bullets and hope to hit higher on the target. The heavier bullets of all the calibers are longer and that helps them plow through the wind. So my buddy (who seldom does any research that takes longer than 10 minutes and includes anything other than sound bite sentences) got an OK caliber in the wrong rifle and jumped right into shooting the worst bullet for recoil. I think it's still for sale, btw. ;) Of course, he wants about twice what he paid for it, 'cause it's so purty.

 

The heavier bullets you see in use for long range with a 40-65 are going to be 350-400 grains. The 45 calibers pretty much go to 500grs to get ballistics that are comparable. If you were to order identical rifles today, one a 40 caliber while the other was 45, their being identical in every way except caliber, the 40 would actually be heavier. It will shoot a bullet 20-30% lighter and use less powder doing it. With about the same results.

 

When I decided to try cowboy shooting again after a decade layoff, my 20ga shotgun turned my shoulder black and blue thanks to heart medicine I'm taking now. I've shot my C.Sharps 1975 since the 90s and never seen a bruise. "Hurting yourself" is a valid consideration.

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Go big or go home...get a .50-140! I saw one online with the whole kit to go with it. I'm gonna say the recoil was silly.

 

I vote .38-55 and enjoy yourself. I have a friend that went technical and had a boattail mold made up. He was playing at great distances with the rifle. Don't forget CPA for decent single shot rifles.

 

Shotgun butt is the way to go for least recoil abuse. Crescent can be rough and schuetzen stocks are made for target loads.

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I've gone over to my gun dealer and spoken w him, too. He's also seen me shoot, can see I'm not petite...is in the same club I'm in...and I think I heard him kinda steer me toward a .45-70 in BP as I should be able to handle the "rolling" feel okay, as compared to the sharp hit of the 12 gau in normal load. Also, there is variation in ammo, powder...

 

I do not reload. But I can buy BP .45-70s from a company that makes it?

 

ALSO:

 

What would this group feel about a Pietta EMF sharps 28", stainless?? Or that ad compared to http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/single-shot-rifles-1/single-shot-rifles-sharps/single-shot-rifles-pedersoli-sharps-1/pedersoli-pride-of-the-plains-sharps-rifle-45-70-30-in-oct-sh301.html the Pedersoli??

 

Thank you

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I bought american for a reason. ;)

Pedersoli ain't bad-get'n parts from them can be a PITA.

Don't forget you will want other than the barrel sights on that Sharps. Good tang sights is a must and learning to 'read' the conditions(wind/distance/mirage)to dial sight corrections will need to be learn'd and practiced for these events.

You can buy slip on recoil pads that help a great deal with taming recoil.

Why not reload-It ain't hard to learn--- -_- You will save buckets of $$$$ by roll'n your own.

OLG

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Aunt Jen, Ten-X sells 45-70 ammo loaded with a black powder sub. It's pricy ($2.55 a round) and frequently unavailable. Still, your choice (45-70 and black powder) is reasonable. Try to find a reloader at you club who will let you load on his equipment. There's bound to be somebody. Price and availability really demands reloading. It took me months of experimentation until I developed a load I'm ready to take to major matches for long range side matches. I'm not sure there are any commercial loads that would work for me.

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Howdy Again Aunt Jen

 

Exactly what do you expect to do with this rifle? You are getting advice for shooting it in everything from casual shooting at 100 yards to competitive BPCR shooting. What kind of shooting you intend to do will have some influence on what rifle you buy and what features it has.

 

You do not necessarily have to shoot Black Powder, the Italian rifles are proofed for Smokeless loads. I can't speak specifically about the Shiloh but I strongly suspect it is safe to shoot with Smokeless too. But most shooters who buy a high end Sharps shoot them with Black Powder. Yes, you can buy BP loaded 45-70, but it is going to be very expensive, much more expensive than Smokeless loaded 45-70. Here is one source, but they seem to be out of stock right now.

 

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=158179&CAT=3824

 

By the way, if you want to learn to load Black Powder for a single shot rifle, the Mike Venturino book I mentioned will teach you all you need to know about that.

 

Regarding the Cimarron Sharps you refer to, I have to wonder whether the checkering is really hand done or if it has been done on a machine. As I said earlier, when I looked at some of the fancier Italian made Sharps, I was very unimpressed with the details. Checkering was poorly done and did not match up from one side of the stock to the other. Pewter fore end caps were pinned in place, and not finished off very well, rather than being cast in place on the stock the way it was done in the old days. I'll bet Shiloh casts the cap in place, but you have to pay the Shiloh price for that. Things may have changed since then, but that's why I went with a plain jane model.

 

Then there is sights. You can spend almost as much on the sights as you can on the rifle, but do you really need that? Are you going to be shooting it at 500 yards?

 

Here are the sights I bought with my Sharps.

 

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=7564

 

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=7536

 

Probably not good enough for serious BPCR work, but good enough for me and my miserable eyesight.

 

 

 

 

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Howdy Again Aunt Jen

 

Exactly what do you expect to do with this rifle? You are getting advice for shooting it in everything from casual shooting at 100 yards to competitive BPCR shooting. What kind of shooting you intend to do will have some influence on what rifle you buy and what features it has.

 

You do not necessarily have to shoot Black Powder, the Italian rifles are proofed for Smokeless loads. I can't speak specifically about the Shiloh but I strongly suspect it is safe to shoot with Smokeless too. But most shooters who buy a high end Sharps shoot them with Black Powder. Yes, you can buy BP loaded 45-70, but it is going to be very expensive, much more expensive than Smokeless loaded 45-70. Here is one source, but they seem to be out of stock right now.

 

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=158179&CAT=3824

 

By the way, if you want to learn to load Black Powder for a single shot rifle, the Mike Venturino book I mentioned will teach you all you need to know about that.

 

Regarding the Cimarron Sharps you refer to, I have to wonder whether the checkering is really hand done or if it has been done on a machine. As I said earlier, when I looked at some of the fancier Italian made Sharps, I was very unimpressed with the details. Checkering was poorly done and did not match up from one side of the stock to the other. Pewter fore end caps were pinned in place, and not finished off very well, rather than being cast in place on the stock the way it was done in the old days. I'll bet Shiloh casts the cap in place, but you have to pay the Shiloh price for that. Things may have changed since then, but that's why I went with a plain jane model.

 

Then there is sights. You can spend almost as much on the sights as you can on the rifle, but do you really need that? Are you going to be shooting it at 500 yards?

 

Here are the sights I bought with my Sharps.

 

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=7564

 

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=7536

 

Probably not good enough for serious BPCR work, but good enough for me and my miserable eyesight.

 

Thats the exact same sights I put on mine good enough to do what I need to do. $500 dollar sights would be nice but are not in he budget for a retired cop and occasional shooting at relativly close range. 1000 yard ranges are scarce here in Western Pa

 

 

 

 

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Lotsa good advice here. I started with a Pedersoli Sharps in 45-70. It shot great and own matches for me in BP and smokeless.. Got a Shiloh in 45-110 because I wanted it. BP only and have own matches with it too. Now I have a Shiloh in 38-55 and love it too. Easy on the shoulder for sure.

 

From what I hear you saying, a Pedersoli in 45-70'is a great place to start.

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You all have been more than wonderful. I want to share where I am on my search, to make sure I'm being open and not inadvertently leading anyone on about my intentions.

 

I am leaning toward a Sharps design, preferably blue, the closer to Quigley the better, though Lets not hock the house for this. I prefer Shiloh, but the cost may drive me to Pedersoli or other. I'm leaning toward a .45-70 caliber, BP loads if I can find them (because I hear they may offer a kick that's not as sharp). And I think I'm likely to go to Winter Range and watch some LR to see what people are doing, to get more ideas. Watch them. If I see a guy shooting .45-70 with a masseuse or surgeon after every third shot, that'll have a lot to do with my choices. :)

 

This kind of thing, for me, I've learned, is not a rational choice alone, but more. It goes back to my heritage, again, but also, it's something I've thought about for many years and never done right.

 

I did once fly to New York to see a Broadway play, because I'd always wanted to---and because my (now deceased) mother wanted to, and never did. I wound up seeing "The Book of Mormon" (hilarious) and "Wicked" (affected me about being a better person). Both were truly excellent. The whole trip cost me a fortune, but it is a life memory that I wouldn't want to do without.

 

I once flew to Paris with my husband. The trip took some effort, under our circumstances, his age and health, but we did fine, and I'll cherish that trip for the rest of my life. And him, as well, for that matter.

 

So many things that have value to the heart, seem to also often relate to the willingness to put some effort into it, such that SASS for me may not remain just going to the range with my .45s and costume. Maybe I'll grow into it more, with LR.

 

The same kind of thing goes for other things.

 

Long Range isn't something I've ever really been into, and it's not on a part with a Broadway play, to me, but on the other hand, the rifle gets to remain with me in the physical, not just as a memory, for the rest of my life. And there is something nice, peaceful, probably going back to when my grandpa or some other would spend time with me as a child to help me learn to shoot. I think when I'm 100, looking back, I'll be glad that I took the time to learn more about it. The feeling is heritage, but also family, to me, good days. Positive.

 

So I'm taking my time to look at it right, as right as I can.

 

On what will I do with it, what range for side matches? We'll see. If I turn out to have no talent at all :) , then it'll be shorter. If I can adjust/learn to something longer, that would be fun and I'd be pleased. It's like me to always want to learn. The .45-70 or the .38-55 would do, either one, I'm sure, but the .45-70 would also offer me MORE to learn. It's something I could grow with.

 

I'd probably use a stock/shoulder pad of some sort, likely BP if I can find it, maybe lighter loads or loads that felt lighter, but that's okay.

 

So I've learned a lot from you all, and now maybe it's time to sleep on it all. Let it soak in. See what my mind seems to linger with. Why not? And i'll go from there.

 

So now you're filled in. :)

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The military buttstock on the "Q" rifle is NOT the best for recoil impulse or long range due to the angle of the stock's comb.

Take a look at a Shiloh 1874 Sporter #1 with the pistol grip and shotgun style stock.

I have a #1 in .45-90 with a 30 hvy bbl and MVA tang sights. It's very controllable and the PG helps in reducing the rifle's torque twist when fired.

http://www.shilohrifle.com/rifles.php

Call Shiloh and ask for Lucinda or Kirk(owners). They will help you.

 

Tel: 406-932-4266

 

OLG

 

 

 

 

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Quigley ped. is about 1899 dollars around here. Then you need 500 more for sights. Good rifle though.

I got mine! Thanks Lunger.

 

Now if I can shake this cold the grand daughter gave me I'll get to go shoot it!

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Aunt Jen;

 

You should really Consider the .40-65 it's 370 to 400 grain bullets have about the same Ballistic Properties (BC) as .45 caliber bullets weighing from 500 to 540 grains . So what you get is about the same ranging (1,500 + Yards) with 30 to 40% less recoil than the .45-70 ...

The .38-55 will have about 18% less recoil than the .40-65, But it will not always knock-down the Rams at 550 yards ...

 

So with the .40-65 you have a caliber that can be a winner in BPCR World championship events (many times over) and will indeed NOT restrict the range to which you can shoot in any Cowboy event ... With lower recoil than the .45-70 and with-out the range restrictions of the .38-55.

 

All three cartridges are fine cartridges and I enjoy all three, but limited to one I would keep the .40-65...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Whatever you decide on this can be your friend! Slips on and off with ease....fits most any of your long guns.

 

About the vernier sights. One thing they all have in common is an aperture to look through and that hole is no better on an MVA than a Pedersoli set. What sets them apart is their precision fit and REPEATIBILITY! If one has to add xx points of elevatation for a distant target then you want to be comfortable that when you adjust it back down the POA will be precisely where you began. So if you're only going to shoot at a fixed distance everytime you likely don't need the high dollar sights.

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Hi, Robert Redford. Good info also, and your PM is full. :)

 

I wouldn't mind saving a thousand dollars, if I find something good.

I would prefer a butt I can put a pad on (so maybe the shotgun butt is good), a mid-range rear site with windage, globe site up front of some kind, and in a caliber that I can purchase BP from companies, as I do not reload. I'd love to have the patch box on the stock, as it looks good, but it's not required.

The 40-65 sounded good, but I fear it's less popular and so may not be available over time in BP via various companies. Now and then, if a pard wants to sell me some reloads in BP, that could be good, but I know from being in this some 50 years that sometimes people move on, and I don't want to take up reloading, myself. (I know, that's probably a character deficit and means my teeth will fall out, but...) :)

Are Pedersoli barrels made as well as Shiloh? Other circumstances equal, can it group shots as well, reliably? That's where it's at.

Thank you.

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Look at C Sharps - they make rifles on par with Shiloh. http://csharpsarms.com/

 

C Sharps video page: https://www.youtube.com/user/CSharpsArms/videos

 

I'm proud of my C. Sharps 50-140 - a bit too much for competition use, but my reasoning for purchasing it was more to honor my grandpa (burly guy at 6'5") and a nod to the Quigley movie (with a bit more umphhh :D ) - still, it was custom made to my specs - with a #1 Heavy 34" barrel.

 

rightside.jpg

Leftside.jpg

50calSharps.jpg

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Look at C Sharps - they make rifles on par with Shiloh. http://csharpsarms.com/

 

C Sharps video page: https://www.youtube.com/user/CSharpsArms/videos

 

I'm proud of my C. Sharps 50-140 - a bit too much for competition use, but my reasoning for purchasing it was more to honor my grandpa (burly guy at 6'5") and a nod to the Quigley movie (with a bit more umphhh :D ) - still, it was custom made to my specs - with a #1 Heavy 34" barrel.

 

rightside.jpg

Leftside.jpg

50calSharps.jpg

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

WOW-Now if that ain't the 'beauty and the beast'. What is??- :lol::lol::P

OLG

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WOW-Now if that ain't the 'beauty and the beast'. What is??- :lol::lol::P

OLG

 

:) ...flattered...never been called a 'beauty' before....or wait... :blink: ...ne'er mind :D

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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If you are looking for a "Heritage" rifle, look into the Trapdoor Springfield.

Not as pretty, not as accurate at distance but can be had as an original for a lot less money that the reproduction Sharps style of gun.

Certainly will shoot good enough for most of the SASS Long Range side matches. Around here that means 100 to 300 yards. I'd habve to drive 3 or more hours to find a 1000 yard range.

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