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Loadin BP is a pain in the …..


Chicken Scratch

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Rye,

 

Li'l sis was a tick saddened ta read that ya were not gonna be playi'n with the smokey stuff fur now.

She had a ball shooti'n her first bp match with you and the "dawg" at Michigan state shoot this last year!!!!!! Big smiles!!! You really impressed her!!

She said she truely understands the cost, time, and upkeep of equipment and supplies, and that ya will be welcome anytime and anywhere ta play this great game we call sass!!

I know she greatly appreciated all the help and support, and encouragement everyone afforded her!!

We will be less without ya!

Hope yer gonna make the international at the pass this year, we can put ya up, no problem!!

Morni'n rick!!

Furball and co.

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Hey Rick, Furball and Lil' Sis, thanks for accepting me in your clan with my heathen powder, I'll try not to spill any on ya!!! :P Hope to see ya this year, I'll be going to Mich. and I'll shoot the holy black stuff at Ohio BP in Sandusky fer sure!!

 

Rye, just a part time soot lord now!! :P

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Rye,

 

Hope yer gonna make the international at the pass this year, we can put ya up, no problem!!

Morni'n rick!!

Furball and co.

Fuzzball - Mornin' back at ya. The International is gonna be the best since we got this thing started. Hoping you can make this year's St. Jude's match.

 

CR

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When and where is the International??

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When and where is the International??

IBPG has been awarded this match designation from SASS. Resurrection of a once very large SASS BP series. Pretty cool. Furball got it started with Misty Moonshine at the convention. Couldn't be more excited :excl: 5th Weekend in May in place of the IBPG annual.

 

CR

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That's right I forgot, Prairie Dawg's going, I can't make it. Shoot good!!! ;)

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Rye, Just because I'm a die hard BP shooter does not have a thing to do with me not liking any other shooter. If that was the impression you got then it's not correct. I'm also sorry I mistook you for another shooter but that does not mean I hold any contempt toward you. If the whole world ate vanilla ice cream, we would be in a dull place for sure. When I first came to this forum, you were one of the members who always threw in to help when we had a member wanting to try the dark side. That is what I'm going to miss, not you shooting anything you care too.

I joke and kid my friends who shoot the Mouse Fart loads also but that does not mean that I have no respect for the speed and accuracy they have. I always shake their hands after the match and tell them good shooting. The numbers of BP shooters are and have been low for a while and I hate to see others dropping out.

I've ridden and owned motorcycles since 1962 and I have a few shirts that say " If I have To Explain You would Not Understand" The same holds true for BP shooters and those who choose to shoot the full case loads just like the ones loaded in 1873. When I decided to get into SASS shooting, I saw a chance to shoot the guns that I've always liked with the BP that the men of that time fired. I surely don't come in first overall but I'm not last either. We are small in members who shoot BP in Frontier Cartridge and the other BP classes and I just hate to see the loss, not the fact that the shooter goes to shoot smokeless. I was a cop who shoot thousands of 38 spl. rounds loaded with 2.7 grains of Bullseye and I had my fill of that. My reasons should not be what others want but I fight hard to keep other BP shooters in the fold. That is it and that is who I am. Later and Good Shooting Fairshake

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Rye, Just because I'm a die hard BP shooter does not have a thing to do with me not liking any other shooter. If that was the impression you got then it's not correct. I'm also sorry I mistook you for another shooter but that does not mean I hold any contempt toward you. If the whole world ate vanilla ice cream, we would be in a dull place for sure. When I first came to this forum, you were one of the members who always threw in to help when we had a member wanting to try the dark side. That is what I'm going to miss, not you shooting anything you care too.

I joke and kid my friends who shoot the Mouse Fart loads also but that does not mean that I have no respect for the speed and accuracy they have. I always shake their hands after the match and tell them good shooting. The numbers of BP shooters are and have been low for a while and I hate to see others dropping out.

I've ridden and owned motorcycles since 1962 and I have a few shirts that say " If I have To Explain You would Not Understand" The same holds true for BP shooters and those who choose to shoot the full case loads just like the ones loaded in 1873. When I decided to get into SASS shooting, I saw a chance to shoot the guns that I've always liked with the BP that the men of that time fired. I surely don't come in first overall but I'm not last either. We are small in members who shoot BP in Frontier Cartridge and the other BP classes and I just hate to see the loss, not the fact that the shooter goes to shoot smokeless. I was a cop who shoot thousands of 38 spl. rounds loaded with 2.7 grains of Bullseye and I had my fill of that. My reasons should not be what others want but I fight hard to keep other BP shooters in the fold. That is it and that is who I am. Later and Good Shooting Fairshake

Fairshake, I realize much of this "ribbing" is just that. I'm getting ready to get a boatload of ribbing when pards at the shoots I go to see me shoot smokeyless!! Oh yea I'm toughening up my skin fer that! I will still shoot BP occasionally because it is fun but I'm going to the heathen stuff because of laziness and I'm trying to cut the budget a bit.

 

Rye ;)

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IBPG has been awarded this match designation from SASS. Resurrection of a once very large SASS BP series. Pretty cool. Furball got it started with Misty Moonshine at the convention. Couldn't be more excited :excl: 5th Weekend in May in place of the IBPG annual.

 

CR

 

Can't wait to see y'all and make BIG smoke.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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I've loaded BP since the 1960s. I use to do everything on a single stage press, dropping each charge using a scoop. the past 25 years I've used progressive loaders. I use to concern myself about static electricity setting off BP, and made medal powder hoppers to replace the plastic (I've since gone back to the plastic)... then I decided to do some testing. I put some BP in a pan, put on a face shield, wielding apron, wielding gloves and did my best to set off the powder using a electric Stun Gun. I just couldn't make it happen. After looking around on the internet, I was unable to find even one substantiated, known case of this happening. But...... there is no doubt that SOMETHING blew up the number of BP plant explosions that have taken place over the years. IMO, it was most likely a result of super fine BP dust in the air... as stated in an earlier post, this is a known occurance with Grain storage and Mills. My biggest concern, and a much more likely event, is setting off a primer in an automatic primer feed. I've had it happen with my Dillon 650, and it set off the entire tube of primers. I could see that happening, and setting off a hopper full of BP (Bomb). I do two things to give myself a better chance if that were to happen. First off, I don't fill the hopper... I put in as little as I can, and add as needed. The next thing I do is slide either a piece of metal tubing or a heavy gauge larger plastic tube over the hopper. If it were to go off, I'm hopping that it would direct the blast up, rather than out.

 

Bottom line is that I don't think that loading BP on your Dillion 550 is any more dangerous than loading by hand... using a 650, with it's know propensity to light off a tube of primers is a little more iffy, but I still do it.

 

Snakebite

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I've loaded BP since the 1960s. I use to do everything on a single stage press, dropping each charge using a scoop. the past 25 years I've used progressive loaders. I use to concern myself about static electricity setting off BP, and made medal powder hoppers to replace the plastic (I've since gone back to the plastic)... then I decided to do some testing. I put some BP in a pan, put on a face shield, wielding apron, wielding gloves and did my best to set off the powder using a electric Stun Gun. I just couldn't make it happen. After looking around on the internet, I was unable to find even one substantiated, known case of this happening. But...... there is no doubt that SOMETHING blew up the number of BP plant explosions that have taken place over the years. IMO, it was most likely a result of super fine BP dust in the air... as stated in an earlier post, this is a known occurance with Grain storage and Mills. My biggest concern, and a much more likely event, is setting off a primer in an automatic primer feed. I've had it happen with my Dillon 650, and it set off the entire tube of primers. I could see that happening, and setting off a hopper full of BP (Bomb). I do two things to give myself a better chance if that were to happen. First off, I don't fill the hopper... I put in as little as I can, and add as needed. The next thing I do is slide either a piece of metal tubing or a heavy gauge larger plastic tube over the hopper. If it were to go off, I'm hopping that it would direct the blast up, rather than out.

 

Bottom line is that I don't think that loading BP on your Dillion 550 is any more dangerous than loading by hand... using a 650, with it's know propensity to light off a tube of primers is a little more iffy, but I still do it.

 

Snakebite

Snakebite,

 

I am one of the BP shooters who use my progressive presses, but I understand that there are folks who are not comfortable with the idea. I raced motorcycles professionally, some folks won't even throw a leg over one. I encourage folks to do some research and load in whatever way makes it possible to enjoy this wonderful pastime of ours. If yer not having fun, you won't do it very long. BP costs more and takes more time already, our compatriots need encouragement and support, whatever their methods.

 

CR

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For those intimidated in the loading of Holy Black, go back and read the posts by Snakebite and Fairshake. They have had their acts together from years of experience and what they tell you can be believed.

 

Loading black powder is in so many ways safer and more simple than loading smokeless powder. I'll give you one example. You CAN'T double charge a black powder pistol cartridge. You can double and even triple charge a smokeless load. Overcharging with smokeless powder CAN blow up your gun.

 

As to cleaning? Tumble your brass in any of the readily available media and it'll clean up bright and easy. No need to load cruddy brass. And, while I'm on that issue, I've seen 45 Colt brass so dirty after shooting smokeless powder loads that any black powder brass would favorably compare. And, the black powder residue cleans up easier than nitro crud.

 

Enjoy the smoke with no disadvantage and lots more fun.

 

DD-MDA

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For those intimidated in the loading of Holy Black, go back and read the posts by Snakebite and Fairshake. They have had their acts together from years of experience and what they tell you can be believed.

 

Loading black powder is in so many ways safer and more simple than loading smokeless powder. I'll give you one example. You CAN'T double charge a black powder pistol cartridge. You can double and even triple charge a smokeless load. Overcharging with smokeless powder CAN blow up your gun.

 

As to cleaning? Tumble your brass in any of the readily available media and it'll clean up bright and easy. No need to load cruddy brass. And, while I'm on that issue, I've seen 45 Colt brass so dirty after shooting smokeless powder loads that any black powder brass would favorably compare. And, the black powder residue cleans up easier than nitro crud.

 

Enjoy the smoke with no disadvantage and lots more fun.

 

DD-MDA

BP makes great toothpaste, also. This is good, because it will land there while you're smiling while the flames are flying :D Saves a step :P

 

CR

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Bighipiron, don't believe you'll be reloading the big calibers for BPCR yet, so here are a some sources you might want to read:

Loading Black Powder for Cowboy Action Shooting A Primer ... http://www.jspublications.net/tips/BPLoading.pdf

* http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html

* Shot shells, including brass hulls ... http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

Thank you for these. I found the first one late yesterday and was going to repost it here to see if it was a good source, but you've gone ahead and verified for me. I'll check out the others as well. Thanks for being a good pard.

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I'm not shooting as much BP as I once was. But I've never found it all that difficult to load up.

I have a stand alone BP tool head set up for my 650. No need for the case powder alarm. Replaced it with a funnel type die. That's where I drop the filler.

Sure it's not as fast as loading smokeless powder. But it's not slow and its a fairly clean process.

Regards,

Ringer

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Bighipiron: If you need any hands on teaching about loading BP I am not that far away in San Jose. I use Dillon 550 for cartridges and a MEC 600 for shotgun. I have been shooting BP exclusively for about 8 years now so I do have a bit of experience.

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Bighipiron: If you need any hands on teaching about loading BP I am not that far away in San Jose. I use Dillon 550 for cartridges and a MEC 600 for shotgun. I have been shooting BP exclusively for about 8 years now so I do have a bit of experience.

Awesome. I'll hit you up for advice next time I shoot at Coyote Valley. I was there a few weeks ago. It's a really great place to shoot.

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Bighipiron, don't believe you'll be reloading the big calibers for BPCR yet, so here are a some sources you might want to read:

Loading Black Powder for Cowboy Action Shooting A Primer ... http://www.jspublications.net/tips/BPLoading.pdf

* http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html

* Shot shells, including brass hulls ... http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

 

That first reference has too many small mistakes for me to wonder how many big important mistake may have escaped my notice. I would steer clear of it.

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It's threads like this that keeps others from the enjoyment of shooting the original gun powder that was used for hundreds of years.

Rye, I can't believe that you have given up and went to the other side. When I had the occasion to meet you in Lake Charles.La. I had the impression you was the type of guy that would stay in the fight. To each his own but that smile you have been wearing will soon go away.

As far as the OP of this thread stated about his 550 press, you best send that thing back to Dillon as you must have some serious problems with it. If it's not the press, then get yourself an appointment with your doctor, as you may have some sort of problem from all of those tremors that caused you to spill all that powder. Or were you shaking because of all the BS that is printed about how dangerous real BP is to load.

It's just like the BS that was posted about BP causing static electricity with plastic and blowing up. To that member, I say show me the printed Police Report where that took place and injured the loader. I would love to see it or maybe you have the TV news footage as that would make the evening news.

I've loaded BP since 1971 and I've fought this BS the whole time. It's unreal when someone ask about shooting BP and you have posters who have never fired off the first round telling them that they need to use one of the subs. I've never fired a sub and will quit shooting before I do. To me, if you want to shoot in a sport and pretend to be using the real product, why not do something else

BP does not require you to run home and clean your guns before they turn to a heap of rust but the subs do. I shoot on a Saturday and never clean before Monday or Tuesday. How many history books say that the soldiers had to stop fighting because the guns had not been cleaned and were now rusty?

Later Fairshake

Well said Fairshake ! I load 2Fg on my 550 with no problems; just have to clean it afterwards. The more I shoot REAL Black Powder , the more I love it ! I clean my weapons ( guns) using ONLY " WET ONES " baby wipes. Run a patch thru the cylinders and bores; lube the internals with GUN BUTTER : wipe the outside with Eezox and into the safe they go !

I hate to clean my smokeless weapons : Glocks , AR's etc. Takes me way longer .

Black Powder is a lobor of love ! FIRE and SMOKE All THE WAY !!!!!!!

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Loading BP is so easy, even a girl can do it. All you need is the right tools for the job. The aftermarket thingy that goes under the shell plate of the Dillon keeps the "bounce" to a minimum, essential if you load 'em full up. I had to stop and tidy up every 100 rounds or so before I got that gizmo. I may be a little picky about keeping the Reloading Palace pristine- suppose I could just tidy up at the end. That helps a bunch and I don't have a spillage issue now. A shot tragedy can happen to anybody, especially with a full bag when it is at it's heaviest. Been there, done that, chased the little buggers around for weeks afterward. They really travel on a cement basement floor!

I open the new bag in a small plastic bin and scoop into 3 containers with snap-on lids and a pour spout. Pours easy into the Lee Load All. Got 'em at the Dollar Store. Containment and control, no more shot tragedies.

Even if you have to go a tad slower to load BP, you don't have to pull a case and weigh it every so often (yes I have the alarm but I do it anyway) like you do with smokeless and it's not nerve wracking like smokeless where a mistake can have dire consequences.

When the case comes around, its either full or it ain't. No stress. I'd much rather make BP.

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That first reference has too many small mistakes for me to wonder how many big important mistake may have escaped my notice. I would steer clear of it

 

John Henry - Disagree with your statement with reference to Joel's write up.

Yes, Joel makes emphisis respective to static electricity and cartridge air space but a newbie knows no better and it is better to error on safety. There are a couple of loads that I wouldn't use that are his preference but none that are 100% wrong or are mistakes. Other than those, he has prepared an extensive detailed write up that if a newbie follows, will have properly loaded centerfire cartridge & shot shell reloads that are 100% safe.

 

My opinion is Joel did a commendable detail job with his writeup. And my opinion is based on years reloading many thousand original gunpowder centerfires & shot shells annually and shooting them ... for calibers ranging from 22LR to 50-70's plus metric Schuetzen calibers

 

I'll throw the gauntlet back to you ... you write a better detail black powder loading process - post it and let the experienced original gunpowder reloader/shooters on the Wire do a comparison. Okie Dokie? ;)

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John Henry - Disagree with your statement with reference to Joel's write up.

Yes, Joel makes emphisis respective to static electricity and cartridge air space but a newbie knows no better and it is better to error on safety. There are a couple of loads that I wouldn't use that are his preference but none that are 100% wrong or are mistakes. Other than those, he has prepared an extensive detailed write up that if a newbie follows, will have properly loaded centerfire cartridge & shot shell reloads that are 100% safe.

 

My opinion is Joel did a commendable detail job with his writeup. And my opinion is based on years reloading many thousand original gunpowder centerfires & shot shells annually and shooting them ... for calibers ranging from 22LR to 50-70's plus metric Schuetzen calibers

 

I'll throw the gauntlet back to you ... you write a better detail black powder loading process - post it and let the experienced original gunpowder reloader/shooters on the Wire do a comparison. Okie Dokie? ;)

+1. Not my exact process, but close enough for me to recognize that as JB sez, follow it and you'll end up with safe BP loads. Also note, that was written in 2001, about 2 years into reloading, I'd call it "well-done."

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I have a L-N-L and picked up a Blackpowder Powder Measure & Accessories last year from a gentleman that decided not to try it and go back to scooping. Anyone use one of these items on their Hornady LNL? Just keep listening to these fine gents. I come here to listen 99% of the time. for tricks and learn from the mistakes they have already made.

 

Rev

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OK, It's time to add some more information to my loading BP in cartridges, 44WCF is my choice of caliber.

Lou posted a very important bit of information that my old mind had forgot to include, that is how to take the shake or bump out of your Dillon press. Unique Tek is the company IIRC that sells the bearings that go under the Dillon plate that makes it much smoother. I purchased mine from a bearing company to save a few bucks. The end result is as Lou posted. The 550 is my choice because of the control it allows the loader to have. A Lee Turret cast iron also works well.

When it comes to adding your BP measure to any press, there is a little secret that a lot of loaders are not aware of and I should of included it on my earlier postings but I again will blame this old mind.

Dillon sells the parts that will allow you to mount any BP measure on any press so that it's easy to use. Go to the Dillon site and search under press parts or dies. Look for the 450 powder die K95-20308 @ $21.95 , the powder measure adapter K95-20029 @ $22.95 and you will also need your caliber specific case mouth belling piece that goes inside of the die. They are about $10 or so. They serve two purposes, one they bell the case mouth to receive the lead bullet and two they allow the powder to pass through to your case.

I changed my RCBS BP measure to work with the handle in the up position so that it was out of the way, it all depends on your press set up. With these parts you may resize and prime on your first stage. Then your second stage will take the case up into the powder die and bell the case mouth, you then by manual control, dump the powder charge, all in one easy step. Your case is now ready for stage three of bullet seating before the final stage of crimping the case. Good shooting, Fairshake

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I've held it in long enough... I think it's just Pure Horse $#!T about Vanilla Ice cream making the World Dull.

 

Snakebite

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Dillon sells the parts that will allow you to mount any BP measure on any press so that it's easy to use. Go to the Dillon site and search under press parts or dies. Look for the 450 powder die K95-20308 @ $21.95 , the powder measure adapter K95-20029 @ $22.95 and you will also need your caliber specific case mouth belling piece that goes inside of the die. They are about $10 or so. They serve two purposes, one they bell the case mouth to receive the lead bullet and two they allow the powder to pass through to your case.

I changed my RCBS BP measure to work with the handle in the up position so that it was out of the way, it all depends on your press set up. With these parts you may resize and prime on your first stage. Then your second stage will take the case up into the powder die and bell the case mouth, you then by manual control, dump the powder charge, all in one easy step. Your case is now ready for stage three of bullet seating before the final stage of crimping the case. Good shooting, Fairshake

Dern, it... could you not also add a second measure in station 3 to drop a filler? Aye, you'd then have to seat & crimp at station 4, but heck, I'm doing that at station 3 anyway...

I've held it in long enough... I think it's just Pure Horse $#!T about Vanilla Ice cream making the World Dull.

 

Snakebite

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

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John Henry - Disagree with your statement with reference to Joel's write up.

Yes, Joel makes emphisis respective to static electricity and cartridge air space but a newbie knows no better and it is better to error on safety. There are a couple of loads that I wouldn't use that are his preference but none that are 100% wrong or are mistakes. Other than those, he has prepared an extensive detailed write up that if a newbie follows, will have properly loaded centerfire cartridge & shot shell reloads that are 100% safe.

 

My opinion is Joel did a commendable detail job with his writeup. And my opinion is based on years reloading many thousand original gunpowder centerfires & shot shells annually and shooting them ... for calibers ranging from 22LR to 50-70's plus metric Schuetzen calibers

 

I'll throw the gauntlet back to you ... you write a better detail black powder loading process - post it and let the experienced original gunpowder reloader/shooters on the Wire do a comparison. Okie Dokie? ;)

 

First, about your "years of reloading many thousand..." So what? I've been shooting black powder artillery since 1970, I've been through multiple black powder safety classes, I'm certified by the Maryland State Parks system for all 18th century firearms up to and including artillery, and I was a member of the Fort Frederick artillery crew for years. And again, so what? I'm not impressed with me either because even with all of my experience in black powder artillery, I do not think of myself as an expert writer and besides, old age and experience still doesn't make bad info good.

 

As I said, as trivial as the mistakes may be (and one of them is NOT trivial), it is riddled with small mistakes and I have to wonder about the document as a whole.:

 

1. 4Fg is NOT the smallest powder, there is also 5Fg and Flash.

 

2. The "g" does NOT stand for "granulation." The "g" in 3Fg refers to the type of powder in both formulation and preparation (in this case it refers to "sporting grade" powder). See my post on that at http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=232104&hl=%2Bsodium+%2Bnitrate#entry3018567 That mistake may be trivial to the daily lives of the average SASS member, but how many of them now think that g means granulation? Is it possible that someone may come across a bottle of 3Fb and not knowing of the danger in using a sodium nitrate-based powder blow up their gun? Extremely unlikely, but NOT trivial if it were to ever happen.

 

3. You mention the static electricity issue. In those days, I too thought static was an issue even though I later learned that the German military has known better since World War 1. However, if static WERE an issue, then why is he demonstrating the use of paper as a funnel? As a dielectric material, paper will allow a static buildup just like most plastics, and so all of his warnings about static electricity went right out the window when he suggested using a sheet of paper as a funnel.

 

4. Although he does have a bibliography, none of it is tied through footnoting to indicate what material is sourced and what is merely anecdotal.

 

Look, the guy obviously wrote this as a labor of love and for that reason I hope to someday have the honor of meeting him. However, he is clearly not a technical writer and the mistakes I spotted just in my first skimming make the entire work suspect, not to mention that the uninitiated could follow his directions because of a misunderstanding or a mistake that you and I may have overlooked and be badly hurt. For that reason, I take a dim view of "Bubba's Instructions on Blowing Stuff Up" kind of material. For the same reason, I will not recommend to anyone the website with all of those load listings - it's compiled by what I assume is a nice guy, also making a labor of love, but it's unsourced and who knows how much actual empirical data is being used and how much is anecdotal? A friend sharing a pet load with a friend is one thing and publishing an instructional document for the uninitiated that's not well researched is quite another.

 

Would I research something for you if you asked? Absolutely. Would I write a set of instructions for the uninitiated? Not on your life and that's because I am not a technical writer and also because no amount of warnings will prevent a personal injury lawyer from making you spend your life's savings on a legal defense team. While I do NOT think I could do better (I get things wrong all the time), I still would not recommend that document to the uninitiated. Okie Dokie? ;)

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WOW! One thing that this thread has taught me is that some folks can Blow Smoke better than others. :lol:

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WOW! One thing that this thread has taught me is that some folks can Blow Smoke better than others. :lol:

;):lol:

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I have a L-N-L and picked up a Blackpowder Powder Measure & Accessories last year from a gentleman that decided not to try it and go back to scooping. Anyone use one of these items on their Hornady LNL? Just keep listening to these fine gents. I come here to listen 99% of the time. for tricks and learn from the mistakes they have already made.

 

Rev

Rev, I have been using the HornadyLNL for BP for about 6 years or so and started with their BP Measure. One thing I've found is that the return spring is on the heavy side and tends to close the flair a bit at the mouth of thin 44WCF brass when powder charging. I solved that by using a lighter spring of the same length from the hardware store. That seemed to reduce overall effort and works equally well with nitro powders and straight wall cases.

 

I resize, flair the case mouth and prime off the press. I hate it when primers get sideways and upside down and priming off the press helps reduce the chance of popping a primer near a case of BP.

 

1st hole is powder charge, 2nd has a RCBS powder check die, hole 3 is for filler manually dropped from a RCBS Uniflow (if used) hole #4 is bullet seat and hole 5 is for crimp although I sometimes seat and crimp at #4.

 

It all sounds time consuming and I realize its not for everyone, but hey I clean brass using SS pins and folks crab about the length of time that takes as well. 'Sides, wife works, I'm retired. Life is good! :D

 

LG

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Dern, it... could you not also add a second measure in station 3 to drop a filler? Aye, you'd then have to seat & crimp at station 4, but heck, I'm doing that at station 3 anyway...

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

I was able to put a second powder throw on my Dillon 650. I used a lee powder throw on station 3 to add some Cream of Wheat to my 44-40 BP loads. If this works I have added a picture of the arrangement.

Dillonwith2powderthrows.jpg

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Loading BP is exactly the same as loading smokeless for me. I load 44-40 with smokeless for Wild Bunch and with enough BP for 1/8" compression for Cowboy on a Dillon 550. I bought the press used without a powder measure and use Lee Auto Disc measures. When I go from BP to smokeless, I just take the measure with the double disc & "Pro" hopper for my BP load off the tool head and replace it with another one set up for the smokeless charge. Except for the type and amount of powder the process is identical.

 

The Lee measures are cheap enough to keep one set up with a Lee Powder Through Expander die on a tool head for each caliber I load.

 

Also I do the same thing on my Mec Grabber, just change the powder bushing to the appropriate size.Both loads are 7/8 oz shot.

 

This has worked for me for several years but as always YMMV, do what ever is comfortable and seems safe tor you.

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I love cream of wheat but I prefer to have it in a bowl with condensed milk and small amount of Maple syrup. The only thing that belongs in a 44WCF case is more powder!!! Ha!! Ha!! To each his own my friend, there is room for all of us, I even include those mouse fart loaded 38's. I even have a BP compression die for my 44WCF cases.

We need to discuss this subject of vanilla ice cream in more depth as I feel the gauntlet has been dropped!!!

When I posted about the pieces to attach other brands of measures on any press, that was not to speak against any brand or style. I know of several shooters who use the Lee Pro measures with no problems. My posting was because I've heard of loaders using dippers to insert the BP while loading on a turret press. There is no need for that as you may use the measure of your choice with the mounts I described..

Take Care Fairshake

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I love cream of wheat but I prefer to have it in a bowl with condensed milk and small amount of Maple syrup. The only thing that belongs in a 44WCF case is more powder!!! Ha!! Ha!! To each his own my friend, there is room for all of us, I even include those mouse fart loaded 38's. I even have a BP compression die for my 44WCF cases.

We need to discuss this subject of vanilla ice cream in more depth as I feel the gauntlet has been dropped!!!

When I posted about the pieces to attach other brands of measures on any press, that was not to speak against any brand or style. I know of several shooters who use the Lee Pro measures with no problems. My posting was because I've heard of loaders using dippers to insert the BP while loading on a turret press. There is no need for that as you may use the measure of your choice with the mounts I described..

Take Care Fairshake

 

 

Prior to the 225th anniversary of the Battle of Yorktown in 2006, instructions were given by the National Park Service that paper cartridge blanks were to be packed for storage in the magazine in ziplock plastic baggies (25 per bag if I recall correctly). That caused an uproar, so Peter Schaaphok (Yorktown event coordinator and then President of the Brigade of the American Revolution) wrote to GOEX to see what came from the horse's mouth. His email posted on RevList is copied below:

 

 

Dear List,

 

Regarding the concerns that have been raised about plastic bags

inducing static electricity and thus being inappropriate for the

storage of black powder cartridges, I thought it might be worthwhile

to check with an actual manufacturer of black powder.

 

I thus wrote to Goex and asked about this issue. Here is the response:

 

"There is no safety issue whatever in storing paper blanks filled with

black powder in zip-lock LDPE bags. Static electricity is a non-issue.

Studies by the German military just after World War I demonstrated

that static electricity will not ignite black powder

until voltage levels reach the range of 100,000 volts.

 

"A burning ember or a spark is entirely another matter, but if static

electricity is the concern, you are perfectly safe with storage in a

zip-lock bag."

 

So I guess we can say "MYTH BUSTED!"

 

Yr svt

Peter Schaaphok

 

 

To put this in perspective, when I went through the Basic Electronics Course in 29 Palms, CA, we were taught about Electrostatic Discharge (ESD) and the damage it can do to silicon chips which was the new kid on the block in those days. The instructor said that in order to see an electrical arc through open air, such as when you scuff your feet on a carpet and then touch your buddies earlobe (and who doesn't love doing that?), it requires an electromotive force of about 3000 volts. They further went on to tell us that a typical bolt of lightning is in the neighborhood of 100,000 volts. As you can imagine, I took great care in ensuring that the lightning rod on my radar antenna was properly grounded...

 

The arc being produced in the photos seen at Can a static spark set off black powder are purportedly at 10,000 volts, making it over three times the voltage required to arc through open air.

 

I do not have the scientific knowledge to argue any of those statements in either direction, but I have no reason to believe that my instructors were wrong and I trust Peter when he posted what he said was GOEX's response, so I am willing to believe that static electricity is not a valid reason to avoid standard powder throws.

 

Of course, someone else posted a comment about shearing a grain of sand and causing a metal spark that glows due to heat rather than electricity (which black powder will most definitely react to), but who knows what the odds of that are? I still use a single-stage press and powder my cases in a loading block because I don't load in the high volume that some folks here do. I use a Lil Dandy to throw smokeless and I use a brass flask to throw BP because Lil Dandy is a steel rotor moving inside of a steel body. Am I being overly cautious? Probably, but I'm nearly as fast with my flask as with my Lil Dandy, so I'm comfortable with it.

 

Having said that, I'm confident that static electricity is not a valid reason to avoid using a mechanical powder throw. Has anyone ever seen an explanation from the makers addressing WHY they recommend not using their powder throws with BP?

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