Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 At the TG Summit last week Misty Moonshine promised to take a couple of issues to the WB and try to get an amendment/clarification to those issues. I just got this by email a few minutes ago. Notice on the "lever" rule the words "open and empty" are now gone. The basketball rule has also been clarified. Long guns "closed/open" issue: (from 11th Convention, Dec. 2013) Long guns will be cleared and discarded with barrels pointing safely downrange. If the action of a long gun closes after being cleared then the competitor will, at the conclusion of the stage, show it to be clear to the TO. No person other than the competitor may handle the long gun prior to opening the action and showing the long gun to be clear. Appropriate penalties will apply if the long gun is not clear.Shooting on the move: The rules for movement (Basketball Traveling rule) does not relate to shooting on the move . Shooting on the move is expressly disallowed. The "basketball traveling rule" was originally intended to pertain to a competitor who inadvertently cocks a firearm in a position other than the designated firing position or was moving both feet whilst engaging targets at the firing position. One foot may be moved to adjust stance or correct balance. The Basketball Traveling rule was not intended to relate to multiple movements between shots (e.g. Shooting multiple shots during continuous movement.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 As I read it, if my double is emptied and closes as it is vertically restaged there is no penalty if shown clear at end of stage. Back where we were a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 and the penalty for "Shooting on the move".......is? Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Long guns.... I shoot my double barrel shotgun. I open it and make sure the two hulls come out. My question is this...... Can I then close it so I can stand it or place it in a long gun rack that is basically designed for rifles and 97 shotguns or against a vertical wall or prop? ----------------------- Use to be that if placing the long gun back on a prop and it caused the action to close then that would be okay. ie putting long gun in scabbard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 What's the over/under for pages on this thread alone? Looks like the old rule which was superceded by the new rule that was really the old rule. And ahhh, the walking and shooting a '97 just had to be addressed being the big problem that it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I still feel that refering to the "basketball travelling rule" is a huge mistake. This is a rule that is NEVER enforced. By defining our rule in that light, we are implying that it is a rule that is to be ignored And I am not joking here. I'm serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 and the penalty for "Shooting on the move".......is? Stan RO 1 Page 18 number 22 doesn't apear to be updated yet to reflect the clarification, but movement with live round under cocked hammer is SDQ first offense and MDQ the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I'm completely confused now??? I thought I understood the OLD rule, then thought I had figured out the NEW rule, now I don't understand what the new,new rule means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Thanks Larsen, I just got the email from Misty also, had to read it twice to be sure it's correct. Hope this settles it once and for all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Yep, the action rule is now black and white. The test isn't how much the action might be open, the test is whether the long gun is clear. Back to the way it was implemented at last year's Winter Range. (And as it will be implemented at this year's Winter Range!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Enuff Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Because sprinting to the shotgun position is sooooooooo much safer. I've got a longer post saved up for this occasion but my heart just isn't in it to fight this terrible clarification right now. It's been common practice for YEARS already to define shotgun engagement between positions for shotgun. "Shotgun fallers may be engaged anywhere between A and B." Our State matches have used it. Our Regionals have used it. Practically every club I shoot monthlies at uses it. Some of these are people who have been in SASS since the early days. I certainly havn't heard complaints about the smoother flow of the stages from new or old shooters. Doing stages where you have to shoot the stick out of the door to open it then move forward to engage targets gets really difficult when you ironclad the position of the feet between shots like that. Everything just got harder than it needed to be. It's been SAFER and CALMER on the stages. Forcing a shell grabbing sprint to the position while desperately looking for where your foot is planted was never safer or more fun to begin with and a middle ground was developed and implemented and has been in place for a long, long time. Why kick this hornet nest now? The rules being what they are pretty much limited the movement to this kind of usage anyway. Now we face the issue of having to push for all-or-nothing change to the rules when we were getting by fine. No one really wants to engage the battle to officially put full movement while shooting into SASS at this point in time, but if they eliminate all leeway for it in stage design especially with the shotgun then the push for change will get real loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 and the penalty for "Shooting on the move".......is? Stan ;(. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 If any of you want an interpretation on DiD post, here it is: ;(. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Moving with a cocked gun...SDG. Simple as that. Don't do it. The rule remains as it was. The clarification came about with people wanting to move as they shoot and no foot planting. It's a rule thats been in place and any TO or club that doesn't choose to follow it is doing a mis-justice to the shooter and SASS. The new wording on actions being open is much different. It now says, 'cleared and discarded' and no judgement calls on whether the shooter intentionally closed the action or it was an accident. Action closes shooter owns it and will take what ever penalty is needed....if it wasn't cleared before discarding. For those of you that start bashing the Wild Bunch about not listening to the members. Both of these clarifications were supported by the TG's, who attended. And it was discussed at the ROC group. And the Wild Bunch has now forwarded. So everyone agreed and this is not, I repeat not something being imposed by the Wild Bunch without the membership participating. Just trying to put that out there before the flamers leap to the conclusion it's another Wild Bunch decision. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Moving with a cocked gun...SDG. Simple as that. Don't do it. Ike Wow, I am in trouble now, my double is cocked whenever it is OPEN and I move with it. Do I need close it. fire both sides on empty chambers and then move?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 the basketball rule has always been enforced where ever I've shot.... and no, not just because I was there!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The basketball rule never overruled "moving with a cocked gun". I am well aware of the penalty for that. Again my question is "what is the penalty for moving during a shooting string?" Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Wow, I am in trouble now, my double is cocked whenever it is OPEN and I move with it. Do I need close it. fire both sides on empty chambers and then move?? GCK, yer kidding, right? If that were the case, you'd be violating the rule as soon as you left the LT. Sure would make the sg string more complicated if ya' had to close it, open it (cocking) and load before the 1st shot!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 The basketball rule never overruled "moving with a cocked gun". I am well aware of the penalty for that. Again my question is "what is the penalty for moving during a shooting string?" Stan Stan your question is too vague. There is a difference between shooting "and" moving and shooting "while" moving. The latter is against the clarified rule. The former depends on the stage description. For example, shoot S1 and S2 from bale A. Shoot S3 and S4 from fence B and shoot S5 and S6 from barrel C. Firing from the positions indicated, moving between the shooting positions, and following the "safe to move" rules there would be no penalty. In that regard nothing is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 GCK, yer kidding, right? If that were the case, you'd be violating the rule as soon as you left the LT. Sure would make the sg string more complicated if ya' had to close it, open it (cocking) and load before the 1st shot!! I was just commenting on the statement that moving with a cocked gun was a SDQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Purty much figgered that. Too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Stan your question is too vague. There is a difference between shooting "and" moving and shooting "while" moving. The latter is against the clarified rule. The former depends on the stage description. For example, shoot S1 and S2 from bale A. Shoot S3 and S4 from fence B and shoot S5 and S6 from barrel C. Firing from the positions indicated, moving between the shooting positions, and following the "safe to move" rules there would be no penalty. In that regard nothing is different.What is the penalty for violating the clarification noted above? Shooting on the move is disallowed. Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Wow, I am in trouble now, my double is cocked whenever it is OPEN and I move with it. Do I need close it. fire both sides on empty chambers and then move?? Yes you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Yes you do. Wrong. See post #21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Yes you do. A double sg has never been considered "cocked" until it is closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I still don't get it. If you have 6 sg targets spread out, can you slamfire and walk at the same time? A guy would still be in the basket ball rule doing so, if he didn't take 2 steps with it locked and cocked. Oh, and whats the penalty for doing so if not legal anymore? That's the only question I have..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Wrong. See post #21. Sarcasm, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I'm taking 6 pages before the end of the Super Bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I still don't get it. If you have 6 sg targets spread out, can you slamfire and walk at the same time? A guy would still be in the basket ball rule doing so, if he didn't take 2 steps with it locked and cocked. Oh, and whats the penalty for doing so if not legal anymore? That's the only question I have..... That situation is exactly what the clarification seems to be addressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Sarcasm, my friend. It fits real well here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Thanks. I just needed to be sure. Not trying to get anyone worked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 So the way it reads "barrels pointed safely downrange" means no more restaging long guns vertically? If so, yeehaa!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The closed action rule clarification is a very welcome change. Thank you to the WB and ROC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The closed action rule clarification is a very welcome change. Thank you to the WB and ROC. +1+1+1+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The basketball rule never overruled "moving with a cocked gun". I am well aware of the penalty for that. Again my question is "what is the penalty for moving during a shooting string?" Stan that IS something that will need to be addressed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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