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Do we have the right to kill this guy?


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It's been a heavy and scary week so far.....

 

The Tsarnaev trial started in Boston this week - the guy who set the bombs at the Boston Marathon (or allegedly did so, in case you haven't seen the video).

 

Lots of debate in the press and on the radio about:

  1. Is the jury pool going to be inherently biased, since it will be "death-proofed"; no one will be seated as a juror if they cannot agree that they can apply the death penalty if justified by the evidence (MA has no death penalty, but the Feds do in this case, and the AG's office, from Holder on down, is insisting upon it);
  2. Is it "fair" to apply the death penalty in a non-death penalty state (I know, I know...but it's MA, and the folks here tend to believe that they are instilled with a superior sense of moral rectitude - until it's their kid that is killed);
  3. Should the AG plea bargain this case, taking the death penalty off the table, agreeing to life without parole? (With arguments about the severe emotional burden on survivors - many of whom lost family member, or limbs or multiple limbs to the ball bearing loaded pressure cooker bombs - who must testify and re-live their experiences, as well as arguments about the expense of the trial (multi-millions), the added publicity that some believe this jihadist desires, and the view that a life in prison is more punishment than death);
  4. Can anyone who is charged with a highly notorious terrorist crime during a nationally televised event, that results in multiple deaths and maimings, and is following by a multi-county manhunt, with minute-by-minute TV coverage for days, ever get a fair trial in the same city where the crime occurred? Or anywhere?

And now, we have the attacks in Paris.

 

I've gone back and forth on these "neat" legal and social issues, applied every ounce of my legal and religious training, and have concluded:

 

Terror attacks are NOT "ordinary" crime. They are not simple errant behavior by members of our society. They are attacks by fanatics bent on the murder and extermination of our entire civilization. They are also not "warfare" in the conventional sense; there are no "rules" like the Geneva Accords that apply between nations that have sat down at a table and tried to prevent unnecessary suffering to combatants and non-combatants. Instead, they target civilians and unarmed populations, rather than direct military confrontation between armed combatants. There are no societal norms that will be recognized and obeyed by jihadists, not even against non-militant members of their own religion.

 

I used to be worried about "lowering ourselves" to the levels of animalistic behavior that we have been fighting. That does not bother me anymore. Moral sensibilities are of no value if we find ourselves all dead on the ground, like that Paris policeman executed yesterday on the sidewalk. (Every one of these attacks have been cowardly actions against unarmed civilians - what honor is there in such conduct? What God would urge or approve such killings? ) The debate over "waterboarding" now feels like a joke; our worries about being unfair or uncivilized or unjust are a faded memory.

 

We can give no quarter. We cannot rest. We must do everything within our power to eliminate this threat before it eliminates us. As for Tsarnaev, if he is found guilty, execute him. Period. With no wailing, no second guessing, and no extended appeals. And then turn to the more significant task of the rest of them.

 

I never thought that I would reach this point. But, God help me, I have. I pray that we have the ability, the treasure, and the fortitude to get this done. And that whatever God we pray to, He will forgive us when it is over.

 

LL

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I don't know if we have "The Right" to kill him. But "I" believe we have the moral obligation to do so for the protection of others, both in and out of prison.

 

Just "MY" opinion & probably not popular,

Marlin B

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I have no objection to the dealth penalty for this case, but since he probably believes he is going to Paradise when he is executed, I just as soon see him spend the rest of his life in Supermax where he is in a cell 23 hours a day.

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I agree, if guilty, death. I know, it will give him the martyrdom he likely desires, but he has proven that he has total disregard for the life of others.

 

The threat from the extremists really scares me. They are true fanatics in that they have accepted a concept and will not or cannot accept anything that questions that belief. They have no rules, no concept of fairness, no moral compass. They have but one goal, the total eradication of anyone that does not parrot their ideas.

 

And they are winning. We've lost freedoms, such as ease of travel, surveillance in the name of national security, limited access to buildings once open to the public. Billions being spent because of the fear they generate simply by existing. They've now got people saying maybe we should limit free speech lest we be attacked.

 

They have already radically changed the world, made it less free and secure. If not eradicated, the world will only get worse.

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Something else that plays in - do we want to make him a martyr?

 

Ideally (well, ideally there would be no one like this) people who align with chaotic amoral evil should be eliminated. But for practical purposes, it might be better to just lock him up, never mention his name or show his face in public again.

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I don't care whether it is terrorism, or "simple errant behavior by members of our society", or what. In a society, you cannot have people randomly killing others. Back in the long-ago-times, when society was a village of fifty or so people, and there was no one else around for hundreds of miles, you could ban the killers. "Get the hell out of here and not never come back". They are then not among your society any more.

 

You can lock them up, but that means you must pay to feed/clothe/shelter/guard them, and eventually they are set free back into the society.

 

The best solution is to kill them.

 

People have, over the last hundred years or so, decided that PEOPLE are the supreme race, and should not be killed under any circumstance. Capital punishment is a sin. If we kill a killer, does that not lower us to their level?

 

That's nonsense. People that commit capital crimes, which are crimes heinous enough that they deserve the worst punishment available, can not be allowed to be part of society. Killing them should not upset people any more than killing a rabid dog or a plague-infected rat. It's not the rat's fault. It's not the dog's fault. And it might not be the killer's fault that he is a psychopath But it does not matter whose fault it is. The killer is the result. And society needs to get rid of him.

 

If he is convicted - fry his ass.

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You touch on many issues, and I could probably write a small book in response.

 

As far as the trial getting ready to begin, I have no problem with capital punishment. However, I would say that if he were to plead guilty in exchange for life without parole, then by all means, go that route, so long as the majority of victims and families of victims agree. It eliminates the spectacle, the cost, the traumatic stress on those involved, and assures an outcome. Let him fade into obscurity.

 

As for my feelings on the larger issues, I must admit I am torn. My beliefs teach compassion, and I try to live up to those beliefs. But I admit, I have a very hard time with reconciling those beliefs in the face of beheadings and the murder of the helpless, defenseless and weak. I for one find myself thinking of the evils that should befall those people capable of such acts. We must consider it a war, and we must continue to fight it, and yes, no quarter can be given. It pains me to say it, but perhaps if we were to make it known it would be a living hell for those involved that we catch, then fear of such hell would cause them to think twice. At some point, someone mentioned the methods of the Yaqui or the Apache. While reminding them "God wills it," of course.

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Something else that plays in - do we want to make him a martyr?

 

Ideally (well, ideally there would be no one like this) people who align with chaotic amoral evil should be eliminated. But for practical purposes, it might be better to just lock him up, never mention his name or show his face in public again.

 

 

Then what happens when other followers of "the religion of peace" kidnap 10, 100, or 1,000 people and demand an exchange. If we don't they start executing a hostage a day until we release him?

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Then what happens when other followers of "the religion of peace" kidnap 10, 100, or 1,000 people and demand an exchange. If we don't they start executing a hostage a day until we release him?

 

Or if they bomb a football stadium in retaliation for killing him...what then?

Or if he becomes a role model because we kill him and then there are hundreds of copy-cat pressure cooker bombings in shopping malls. sports stadia, etc? What happens?

We can play all sorts of "what if" or "then what" games, each as unlikely as the next.

 

 

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 14, 2015 - Too lurid, profane for this forum.
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 14, 2015 - Too lurid, profane for this forum.

Loophole,

I believe you're overthinking this one. They should take the guy out to the point where the bombs went off, cover him with pitch, set him on fire and see if he can make it across the finish line. If he does, judge him innocent, give what's left of him a Harry & David's gift basket and a 1st class ticket to whereverinhell he came from.

 

Yes the death penalty is appropriate. The State's lost penalty jurisdiction. No plea bargain should be accepted, but my guess is, there will be some intercession on behalf of this poor misguided muslim boy and he'll get life without. I doubt juries there in Neverland have the stones to execute this guy anyway, regardless of pretrial screening.

 

Can anyone like him receive a fair trial in Boston? I would bet that, "yes" they can. If they moved the trial elsewhere, same thing: Yes, he'd get a fair trial.

 

What's fair to me in this case, drawing and quartering, etc. will probably turn out to be life without, but with weekly visits from his militant mullah, his mamma, takeout pizza and conjugal visits from high end hookers paid for by his local mosque.

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Citizens of a country that has been terrorized by this kind of activity does not have a possibility of death penalty.

IT has an OBLIGATION to use the DEATH PENALTY.

 

As for a fair trial, remember that if the evidence does add up and there is no exculpatory evidence then

there is only ONE valid conclusion. GUILTY as charged.

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It really doesn't matter what the verdict is. He'll spend 18-20 years in prison while his lawyers file appeal after appeal as to why this poor misunderstood youth wasn't mentally sound at the time. If it were up to me, as soon as the guilty verdict is announced, take him into a concrete room and put a bullet through his head. Saves time and money as well as giving him what he deserves. Then wash the blood down drain and it's done with.

These idiots aren't going to stop what they're doing. They're all Muslim's so they claim yet they've been killing each other off for centuries. We can't stop it no matter how many troops we send over there. It's another religious war just like when the Protestants and Catholics were all killing each other off in God's name. The only thing they have in common is they hate all non Muslims.

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I'd like this worked out in one of two ways.

 

1- Trial with death penalty in effect. If convicted, given a week to set his affairs in order, then see him hanged. We could put the hanging on pay-per-view and use the proceeds to pay down some of the national debt.

 

2- Plea bargain - no trial. Guy gets life in prison without the chance of parole. Then we allow and encourage people to pay his fellow inmates to make his life even more of a living hell.

 

Edited for typo.

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I wouldn't call it a right, I'd call it a duty to kill him.

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DEATH. I do not want to spend the tax money to keep this slime alive for decades. I certainly do not want to pay for his sex change. I would just hope he would get taken care of before he is axed!

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 14, 2015 - Too lurid, profane for this forum.
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 14, 2015 - Too lurid, profane for this forum.

Kill him? much too easy. Blind him, cut out his tongue, cut off his hands and feet then turn him loose in Alaska

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Obligation !!

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I have just read some very articulate exchange hear that, quite frankly, has just about said all the thoughts swirling in my head. But I do want to say a few things.

 

I have always supported the death penalty. No question, no doubt whatsoever. It just needs to happen swiftly. Guilty? Done. Bye.

 

But.... speedy probably isn't possible. Put him in for life with the general population. What needs to happen will happen a LOT quicker. All them virgins waiting for him in heavan? No need to send HIM there a virgin.

 

This person needs to put to death for his crimes. Chlorine for the gene pool and a fine example for the next one.

 

Retaliation? Hell, this won't make them hate us any more. If they are going to bomb us anyway (for some other reason), lets start giving them LOTS of reasons.

 

Fair trial? Those men made a concious decision to throw fair out the window. We should have the same right to show him that his life aint fair no more.

 

 

I'll stop now. I am not allowed to speak my CORE BELIEFS in public anymore. Wife said. "Too radical" she say....

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I have just read some very articulate exchange hear that, quite frankly, has just about said all the thoughts swirling in my head. But I do want to say a few things.

 

I have always supported the death penalty. No question, no doubt whatsoever. It just needs to happen swiftly. Guilty? Done. Bye.

 

But.... speedy probably isn't possible. Put him in for life with the general population. What needs to happen will happen a LOT quicker. All them virgins waiting for him in heavan? No need to send HIM there a virgin.

 

This person needs to put to death for his crimes. Chlorine for the gene pool and a fine example for the next one.

 

Retaliation? Hell, this won't make them hate us any more. If they are going to bomb us anyway (for some other reason), lets start giving them LOTS of reasons.

 

Fair trial? Those men made a concious decision to throw fair out the window. We should have the same right to show him that his life aint fair no more.

 

 

I'll stop now. I am not allowed to speak my CORE BELIEFS in public anymore. Wife said. "Too radical" she say....

Yup.... Just wipe the vermin off the face of the earth. Quick and swift.... Next in line ;)

 

.... And no...the death penalty is not too easy for these guys as they have a straight ticket to hell...

 

GG

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I don't believe anyone has the right to kill anyone. Society has the duty on those who commit such heinous crimes against that society.

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There is no win in this situation,

Kill him and he's a martyr to be avenged.

Imprison him and he's an inspiration to others and justification, in their minds, to kidnap innocents in hopes of forcing his release.

It's a shame he's still alive.

Either way, the longer the trial goes on the more publicity he gets.

Flip a coin I guess.

:(

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Call me nasty, but life in prison - general population - those folks will know who he is. Just like Dahmer they will hound him and he will last a while before they do him in.

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Call me nasty, but life in prison - general population - those folks will know who he is. Just like Dahmer they will hound him and he will last a while before they do him in.

Or....he will be protected by the many militant Muslims already in there and used as a recruiter.

Times sure used to be simpler.

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Call me nasty, but life in prison - general population - those folks will know who he is. Just like Dahmer they will hound him and he will last a while before they do him in.

How many prisoners in this country are Muslims? They might make him a hero.

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