SASS HAS BIGGER FISH TO FRY

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

At my local range I have noticed if anyone comes up to see what its about, Frederick Jackson Turner is the first person, maybe only person, to engage them and talk to them, even let them try out guns afterwards. A lesson learned.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

 

 

Philly Slim, I think I like yu!!!!! :wub:

Grizz brought the dirt with him--

 

Hey 'Kid'-What,, no love for us duelist shooters-

Great vid

BTW: The poster Cheyenne Horning on the y-tube site. She shoots with us at High Desert Cowboys, and is my 'adopted' daughter.

OLG

[Red Cent]

Did I miss all the posts on all the reloading gear that is needed?

[Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884]

At one time, Metallic Silhouette Shooting was one of the biggest shooting sports around. The local club, 25 years ago, was highly attended and even had the luxury of not concerning themselves with recruiting new shooters. They recently, "went out of business."

 

I started CAS over 20 years ago at the tender age of 38. I got my whole family involved at some point, wife, 3 sons, daughter in law, brother in law, etc.

I was and am likely, one of the youngest members of that generation that watched Westerns and I was limited in my interest to the Lone Ranger, Zorro, (both kinda like Batman, my real interest along with Superman) and John Wayne.

 

I think that we are at a point where we have peaked, at least as far as shooters who were drawn here by experiences in their youth and I think this has been the biggest draw from the beginning until now. In the future, I think interest will diminish unless something in done to implement other shooting sport procedures; qualifying, prizes, etc. I'm not saying that's what should happen but what might happen.

 

I think CAS will soon be on the decline. That's just the way things go.

 

Fillmore

[Snakebite]

Fillmore.... You have a keen eye... and I agree. There is another thing that can keep this game alive. You might recall that one of my biggest talking points when I'm on the stump is the FACT that if the local clubs strongly support each other, then this game will go on for a long time to come. If they do not support each other, they will die off one at a time... Not all the clubs seem to take that to heart.... they forget that the road goes in both directions.... but if their numbers start falling drastically, which at some point they will, then they might wish that they had been more supportive of their neighbors. Being the Last Man Standing won't help this game one bit.

 

Snakebite

[Tom Bullweed]

Our game has to grow locally. People do not typically start out going to End of Trail and investing the maximum. The only role of the SASS TGs in growing the sport may be to share ideas tried at various clubs like having loaner guns, novice shooter events and information ready to handout to people wanting to learn the game. The CC and this forum are too much information for the complete novice.

Yes, it is imperative that our game grows. Other shooting sports have suffered to the point of going away or becoming insignificant. In my state IDPA and IPSC are nearly gone. I used to shoot three hi-power matches a month; now there is one.

Growth depends on individuals bringing more individuals to the game and local clubs making the curve easier for people to become invested.

[Whiskey Kid]

I too, believe we need to recruit the 50-60 year olds. They have the money and time and they saw some of the "modern westerns". The days of "Gene and Roy" are gone, just ask a 30 year old.

Ghost I appreciate your opinion and your work with TSRA, but I think you are wrong, on several levels, with this opinion. By recuting older players to the game you are only buy a limited amount of time. You have to recruit younger to get staying power. I am also a little taken back by your statement that 50-60 year olds have all the money. Perhaps they have more, but thats not a really the limiting factor. We make time and money for what we enjoy, its human nature. More limiting is the fact that gun enthusiast are a small pool to pull from, perhaps 25% at most, but you probably know the numbers better then me. As I stated earlier, I am a shooter on the low side of the wrangler category that didn't watch westerns. I know shooters younger than me that didn't either and yet we are here. Reliving our childhood is not going to be the draw. As you said, "The days of Gene and Roy are gone," having a blast shooting guns that are fun, with great people is! If we, SASS, keep that in mind we can continue to grow this sport!

[Blastmaster]

I too, believe we need to recruit the 50-60 year olds. They have the money and time and they saw some of the "modern westerns". The days of "Gene and Roy" are gone, just ask a 30 year old.

I suspect the 60YO and younger really don't know Gen and Roy. The 60YO and older know more of John Wayne. And John Wayne fans are getting fewer and fewer since his passing.

 

BTW, JW passed June 11, 1979...like 17 years ago. Buckaroos and Juniors were not even born when JW was alive.

[Cowboy Junky]

The money thing is just an excuse many times. People that like it will enough will make the investment......people that are on the fence use the money excuse. I can't tell you how many people tell me they can't afford it and THEN go on to brag about $10,000 worth of guns they have minutes later they may or may not even use........lol.

[Yul Lose]

I suspect the 60YO and younger really don't know Gen and Roy. The 60YO and older know more of John Wayne. And John Wayne fans are getting fewer and fewer since his passing.

 

BTW, JW passed June 11, 1979...like 17 years ago. Buckaroos and Juniors were not even born when JW was alive.

More like 36 years ago.

[Snakebite]

WHAT!

John Wayne died!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

That's BS!

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Adjustable sights are not an issue.

The initial cost are also not that high if you go in to any sport with intentions of being competitive.

 

Mountain Biking ouch.......

off road motorbike another ouch.!

how about golf

 

Yes, you can get in to those sports on the cheap but to be at a competitive level, it's going to cost big dollars.

 

I did none of the above...I did do sail boats starting at age 7 building my own 8' sailboat. (still have it)

Over the years moved up the ladder to 28' boat. Big mistake moving from 22' trailerable to 28' in the water all the time.

example: 22' in 1976 was $5200, today the same boat is over $15,000.

 

Our sport really has very few choices in guns. None of them are cheap and to have top of the line race guns, well $3000 seems less expensive than other sports.

 

My opinion is, this sport or any shooting sport is dying because all media reports are negative. Kids are growing up without ever being exposed to hunting, or sports shooting. They are not taught safe gun handling and use. Instead, they are being raised that guns are evil and no one should have or touch one. But then the selection of violent computer games is endless. Games that teach killing people or zombies or creatures is no big deal and has no consciences. Just hit restart and everything is back and you can do it all again.

 

Adjustable sights are not what is keeping people from coming to this sport.

 

I can see this will become a lengthy opinion piece so I think I will just stop here with my opinion....

You have an opinion? I never noticed that before.

[Oklahoma Dee]

Ghost I appreciate your opinion and your work with TSRA, but I think you are wrong, on several levels, with this opinion. By recuting older players to the game you are only buy a limited amount of time. You have to recruit younger to get staying power. I am also a little taken back by your statement that 50-60 year olds have all the money. Perhaps they have more, but thats not a really the limiting factor. We make time and money for what we enjoy, its human nature. More limiting is the fact that gun enthusiast are a small pool to pull from, perhaps 25% at most, but you probably know the numbers better then me. As I stated earlier, I am a shooter on the low side of the wrangler category that didn't watch westerns. I know shooters younger than me that didn't either and yet we are here. Reliving our childhood is not going to be the draw. As you said, "The days of Gene and Roy are gone," having a blast shooting guns that are fun, with great people is! If we, SASS, keep that in mind we can continue to grow this sport!

Thanks for speakin up there young one!!! Some of the best shooters comin up are under 49 years old.

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

Been hitting the CAS range since I was 20 and now at 33 have seen a whole lot of changes in the game. I got started on my own, my folks are not shooters I loved cowboys, western history etc. and that was the draw for me. While I think it's important to have youth in the game (gonna have a little one of my own shooting with me very soon) I am also of the opinion that they will not make or break our game. In the last 13 years I have seen a whole bunch of "kids" come and go. College, jobs and relationships had the most to do with them no longer shooting. It always concerns me when I see folks wanting to make changes in our game or want to "improve" things in the name of getting younger folks in. We have never been a mainstream game nor will we ever. Getting modern gun competitors to give our sport a second look is always going to be tough. I don't want the core identity of SASS and CAS to change in a attempt to increase numbers. We had a influx of shooters once that was incredible and I think we could have it again. But it won't be easy, and it won't come from "modernizing" our game. This is a amateur shooting sport. The allure of completion can be fleeting, especially for those that depend on it keeping them interested. In 2010 my wife was carrying my son. I was at the height of my practice schedule. My goal was top overall at Winter Range that year, I wanted it so bad I was consumed with it. Well I was blessed enough to accomplish my goal. But I have never felt such a strange feeling. Proud but underwhelmed. I still had to pay for my own gas on the way out of town LOL. I didn't expect any more but I didn't expect to feel the way I did either. It really put the game back into perspective for me. I had always been involved with my local club and by that time had already had a few years of being the MD of our state shoot. But I rediscovered why I started shooting in the first place and the relationships and the desire to give back took over my desire to be competitive. I get more excited about helping a new guy get outfitted and helping folks improve their shooting skills than I do about winning any match. If we try to make changes that are based on competitive results and hoping that it keeps people interested I think many would be disappointed in the results. What holds folks is what brought so very many of us to the game to begin with. The opportunity to get away from the real world and put some ammo downrange in a friendly supporting environment that allowed you to be as slow or as fast as you want cause at the end of the day it all pays the same. Don't get me wrong when the beep goes off I give it all I have still to this day whether it's EOT or the local match. I guess the core of what I'm trying to say is that in my experience the competition and results based on that are not enough to keep folks in it for years to come, there has to be another hook. We have it. It's up to the shooters to embrace it. I'm sure many will disagree and feel free to flame away. Just wanted to share my thoughts in the most honest and frank way that I know how. I am sure there are spelling and punctuation errors throughout as I have been accused of being a scholar. Happy new year to all.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Deuce.............Ya stated it very well.

 

and A Happy and Prosperous New Year to you, KJ and the kids during 2015.

 

 

..........Widder

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Very well said Deuce. I watch the younger shooters and and over the years it is a rare instance that someone that starts shooting at 12 is still shooting cowboy when they are 21. Puberty, driver's licenses, college, and entering the job market take a heavy toll.

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

You have an opinion? I never noticed that before.

I do but I am usually biting my tongue because I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Some time I even hope Darwin thins the heard of some of those with really bad opinions or just do plain stupid things that hurt other people.

 

No offense meant here.

I'm talking about the people on the news and in videos and all the others like them.

 

 

 

 

.

[Straight Arrow Hombre]

Ghost I appreciate your opinion and your work with TSRA, but I think you are wrong, on several levels, with this opinion. By recuting older players to the game you are only buy a limited amount of time. You have to recruit younger to get staying power. I am also a little taken back by your statement that 50-60 year olds have all the money. Perhaps they have more, but thats not a really the limiting factor. We make time and money for what we enjoy, its human nature. More limiting is the fact that gun enthusiast are a small pool to pull from, perhaps 25% at most, but you probably know the numbers better then me. As I stated earlier, I am a shooter on the low side of the wrangler category that didn't watch westerns. I know shooters younger than me that didn't either and yet we are here. Reliving our childhood is not going to be the draw. As you said, "The days of Gene and Roy are gone," having a blast shooting guns that are fun, with great people is! If we, SASS, keep that in mind we can continue to grow this sport!

Everyone's time in this game is limited.

[Snakebite]

Been hitting the CAS range since I was 20 and now at 33 have seen a whole lot of changes in the game. I got started on my own, my folks are not shooters I loved cowboys, western history etc. and that was the draw for me. While I think it's important to have youth in the game (gonna have a little one of my own shooting with me very soon) I am also of the opinion that they will not make or break our game. In the last 13 years I have seen a whole bunch of "kids" come and go. College, jobs and relationships had the most to do with them no longer shooting. It always concerns me when I see folks wanting to make changes in our game or want to "improve" things in the name of getting younger folks in. We have never been a mainstream game nor will we ever. Getting modern gun competitors to give our sport a second look is always going to be tough. I don't want the core identity of SASS and CAS to change in a attempt to increase numbers. We had a influx of shooters once that was incredible and I think we could have it again. But it won't be easy, and it won't come from "modernizing" our game. This is a amateur shooting sport. The allure of completion can be fleeting, especially for those that depend on it keeping them interested. In 2010 my wife was carrying my son. I was at the height of my practice schedule. My goal was top overall at Winter Range that year, I wanted it so bad I was consumed with it. Well I was blessed enough to accomplish my goal. But I have never felt such a strange feeling. Proud but underwhelmed. I still had to pay for my own gas on the way out of town LOL. I didn't expect any more but I didn't expect to feel the way I did either. It really put the game back into perspective for me. I had always been involved with my local club and by that time had already had a few years of being the MD of our state shoot. But I rediscovered why I started shooting in the first place and the relationships and the desire to give back took over my desire to be competitive. I get more excited about helping a new guy get outfitted and helping folks improve their shooting skills than I do about winning any match. If we try to make changes that are based on competitive results and hoping that it keeps people interested I think many would be disappointed in the results. What holds folks is what brought so very many of us to the game to begin with. The opportunity to get away from the real world and put some ammo downrange in a friendly supporting environment that allowed you to be as slow or as fast as you want cause at the end of the day it all pays the same. Don't get me wrong when the beep goes off I give it all I have still to this day whether it's EOT or the local match. I guess the core of what I'm trying to say is that in my experience the competition and results based on that are not enough to keep folks in it for years to come, there has to be another hook. We have it. It's up to the shooters to embrace it. I'm sure many will disagree and feel free to flame away. Just wanted to share my thoughts in the most honest and frank way that I know how. I am sure there are spelling and punctuation errors throughout as I have been accused of being a scholar. Happy new year to all.

 

Deuce: That is one of the best statements that I have read. I think that it totally represents the CAS game, as it was meant to be. Indeed, winning is fun... I've done a bit of it, but it's "The Game", and the People that have kept me around and involved for all of these years. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

Snakebite

[VICIOUS, SASS#8014]

Howdy;

I used to score and run motorcycle events, hard work and lost my day to day worry's for a few hours. Felt refreshed on Monday morning and ready rip into life.

Why have I been at cowboy shooting for over 25 years? I get lost in the days event and never think about other stuff. Feel great afterwards, ready to rip into life challenges.

That is it period!

[Griff]

Been hitting the CAS range since I was 20 and now at 33 have seen a whole lot of changes in the game. I got started on my own, my folks are not shooters I loved cowboys, western history etc. and that was the draw for me. While I think it's important to have youth in the game (gonna have a little one of my own shooting with me very soon) I am also of the opinion that they will not make or break our game. In the last 13 years I have seen a whole bunch of "kids" come and go. College, jobs and relationships had the most to do with them no longer shooting. It always concerns me when I see folks wanting to make changes in our game or want to "improve" things in the name of getting younger folks in. We have never been a mainstream game nor will we ever. Getting modern gun competitors to give our sport a second look is always going to be tough. I don't want the core identity of SASS and CAS to change in a attempt to increase numbers. We had a influx of shooters once that was incredible and I think we could have it again. But it won't be easy, and it won't come from "modernizing" our game. This is a amateur shooting sport. The allure of completion can be fleeting, especially for those that depend on it keeping them interested. In 2010 my wife was carrying my son. I was at the height of my practice schedule. My goal was top overall at Winter Range that year, I wanted it so bad I was consumed with it. Well I was blessed enough to accomplish my goal. But I have never felt such a strange feeling. Proud but underwhelmed. I still had to pay for my own gas on the way out of town LOL. I didn't expect any more but I didn't expect to feel the way I did either. It really put the game back into perspective for me. I had always been involved with my local club and by that time had already had a few years of being the MD of our state shoot. But I rediscovered why I started shooting in the first place and the relationships and the desire to give back took over my desire to be competitive. I get more excited about helping a new guy get outfitted and helping folks improve their shooting skills than I do about winning any match. If we try to make changes that are based on competitive results and hoping that it keeps people interested I think many would be disappointed in the results. What holds folks is what brought so very many of us to the game to begin with. The opportunity to get away from the real world and put some ammo downrange in a friendly supporting environment that allowed you to be as slow or as fast as you want cause at the end of the day it all pays the same. Don't get me wrong when the beep goes off I give it all I have still to this day whether it's EOT or the local match. I guess the core of what I'm trying to say is that in my experience the competition and results based on that are not enough to keep folks in it for years to come, there has to be another hook. We have it. It's up to the shooters to embrace it. I'm sure many will disagree and feel free to flame away. Just wanted to share my thoughts in the most honest and frank way that I know how. I am sure there are spelling and punctuation errors throughout as I have been accused of being a scholar. Happy new year to all.

Deuce: That is one of the best statements that I have read. I think that it totally represents the CAS game, as it was meant to be. Indeed, winning is fun... I've done a bit of it, but it's "The Game", and the People that have kept me around and involved for all of these years. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Snakebite

 

+1. Very well said.

[Innocent Bystander SASS #24171]

Watch this video, try so view it as if you have never been in this sport, tell me this doesn't look fun!

 

http://youtu.be/Q3iX9xSdyzI?list=PLKuamP0cm-Fyp_dw5t_-D1TC4Qf56ecIs

 

 

Whiskey Kid

Great video, Kid, now, do you have something showing slow shooters enjoying the game?

 

No really, I mean it. I can't tell you the number of times I've shown videos like this to non-SASS members and almost to a man (or woman) they say, "Gee that's great, but I'll never be able to do that." Then I have to say, "Well, I'm not that fast and neither are most of my shooting buddies." But it doesn't matter, unless I can get them out to a match, most won't bother to give SASS a second glance.

 

While these type of videos really appeal to prospective members who are competitive, re: current or former USPSA, IPSC, 3-gun, the same video will turn off someone who is looking for a comfortable, relaxing shooting sport. People who come from buckskinning, NCOWS (I know, a dirty word), or just plinkers, look at something like this and say, "What's in it for me?" Maybe they want to socialize more than shoot, maybe they are looking for a sport that they can dress up in period correct or Hollywood western gear and not care about their scores, maybe they are into peering down the sights and placing each bullet in the same spot.

 

You'll say, "But they can do all that in SASS." You're right, but the videos don't show it. IF you can get someone to a match, you can hook them on the sport, but the videos are not helpful to the above types of shooters.

[Calico Mary]

check out Grizzly Dave's vids of the shoots at Pawnee Station....some are of fast, good shooters, and then there's the rest of us.....

[Grizzly Dave]

IB, show them this one

 

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Been hitting the CAS range since I was 20 and now at 33 have seen a whole lot of changes in the game. I got started on my own, my folks are not shooters I loved cowboys, western history etc. and that was the draw for me. While I think it's important to have youth in the game (gonna have a little one of my own shooting with me very soon) I am also of the opinion that they will not make or break our game. In the last 13 years I have seen a whole bunch of "kids" come and go. College, jobs and relationships had the most to do with them no longer shooting. It always concerns me when I see folks wanting to make changes in our game or want to "improve" things in the name of getting younger folks in. We have never been a mainstream game nor will we ever. Getting modern gun competitors to give our sport a second look is always going to be tough. I don't want the core identity of SASS and CAS to change in a attempt to increase numbers. We had a influx of shooters once that was incredible and I think we could have it again. But it won't be easy, and it won't come from "modernizing" our game. This is a amateur shooting sport. The allure of completion can be fleeting, especially for those that depend on it keeping them interested. In 2010 my wife was carrying my son. I was at the height of my practice schedule. My goal was top overall at Winter Range that year, I wanted it so bad I was consumed with it. Well I was blessed enough to accomplish my goal. But I have never felt such a strange feeling. Proud but underwhelmed. I still had to pay for my own gas on the way out of town LOL. I didn't expect any more but I didn't expect to feel the way I did either. It really put the game back into perspective for me. I had always been involved with my local club and by that time had already had a few years of being the MD of our state shoot. But I rediscovered why I started shooting in the first place and the relationships and the desire to give back took over my desire to be competitive. I get more excited about helping a new guy get outfitted and helping folks improve their shooting skills than I do about winning any match. If we try to make changes that are based on competitive results and hoping that it keeps people interested I think many would be disappointed in the results. What holds folks is what brought so very many of us to the game to begin with. The opportunity to get away from the real world and put some ammo downrange in a friendly supporting environment that allowed you to be as slow or as fast as you want cause at the end of the day it all pays the same. Don't get me wrong when the beep goes off I give it all I have still to this day whether it's EOT or the local match. I guess the core of what I'm trying to say is that in my experience the competition and results based on that are not enough to keep folks in it for years to come, there has to be another hook. We have it. It's up to the shooters to embrace it. I'm sure many will disagree and feel free to flame away. Just wanted to share my thoughts in the most honest and frank way that I know how. I am sure there are spelling and punctuation errors throughout as I have been accused of being a scholar. Happy new year to all.

 

This guy knows his stuff

 

GG ~

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

IB, show them this one

 

 

Very good - just get her to lean into that rifle some

 

GG ~

[Calico Mary]

she had jus started usin' tha rifle at that match, up til that point she'd jus shot pistols....she's gittin' better

[Lazarus Longshot, SASS #44254 Life]

she had jus started usin' tha rifle at that match, up til that point she'd jus shot pistols....she's gittin' better

She's a real cutie! Heck, she's got me beat on style points alone!

 

Laz

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I think Whiskey's video was in response to getting younger folks into the game...

 

[Three Foot Johnson]

Did I miss all the posts on all the reloading gear that is needed?

Many of us have reloaded thousands of rounds on cheap single stage presses w/powder dippers. Reloading 120 rounds of rifle/pistol ammo for a match only takes maybe two hours, and shotshells are still cheap enough that reloading them doesn't make sense for the once or twice a month cowboy shooter.

[Houston CAS]

I too, believe we need to recruit the 50-60 year olds. They have the money and time and they saw some of the "modern westerns". The days of "Gene and Roy" are gone, just ask a 30 year old.

 

As someone clinging to being in their thirties for a few more months, I agree. I never had an interest in Gene & Roy when watching westerns with my parents growing up, but give me some John Wayne and Clint Eastwood any day of the week.

 

Steampunk could be a potential comingling/replacement of B Western if handled correctly.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

she had jus started usin' tha rifle at that match, up til that point she'd jus shot pistols....she's gittin' better

Someday if/when I grow up I want to have focus like that buckarette.

I got the pleasure of shooting with her at a monthly and she was determined to be a shooter.

All I can say about that is Way to go Girl!!!

 

Regards

 

 

Gateway Kid

[Calico Mary]

come visit us next summer Gateway and I'll see bout gittin' yu on a posse wit her agin....

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

come visit us next summer Gateway and I'll see bout gittin' yu on a posse wit her agin....

I will take you up on that with one condition....

You gotta be on that posse as well so I can shoot with ya again.

Deal?

 

Regards

 

 

Gateway Kid

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

Been hitting the CAS range since I was 20 and now at 33 have seen a whole lot of changes in the game. I got started on my own, my folks are not shooters I loved cowboys, western history etc. and that was the draw for me. While I think it's important to have youth in the game (gonna have a little one of my own shooting with me very soon) I am also of the opinion that they will not make or break our game. In the last 13 years I have seen a whole bunch of "kids" come and go. College, jobs and relationships had the most to do with them no longer shooting. It always concerns me when I see folks wanting to make changes in our game or want to "improve" things in the name of getting younger folks in. We have never been a mainstream game nor will we ever. Getting modern gun competitors to give our sport a second look is always going to be tough. I don't want the core identity of SASS and CAS to change in a attempt to increase numbers. We had a influx of shooters once that was incredible and I think we could have it again. But it won't be easy, and it won't come from "modernizing" our game. This is a amateur shooting sport. The allure of completion can be fleeting, especially for those that depend on it keeping them interested. In 2010 my wife was carrying my son. I was at the height of my practice schedule. My goal was top overall at Winter Range that year, I wanted it so bad I was consumed with it. Well I was blessed enough to accomplish my goal. But I have never felt such a strange feeling. Proud but underwhelmed. I still had to pay for my own gas on the way out of town LOL. I didn't expect any more but I didn't expect to feel the way I did either. It really put the game back into perspective for me. I had always been involved with my local club and by that time had already had a few years of being the MD of our state shoot. But I rediscovered why I started shooting in the first place and the relationships and the desire to give back took over my desire to be competitive. I get more excited about helping a new guy get outfitted and helping folks improve their shooting skills than I do about winning any match. If we try to make changes that are based on competitive results and hoping that it keeps people interested I think many would be disappointed in the results. What holds folks is what brought so very many of us to the game to begin with. The opportunity to get away from the real world and put some ammo downrange in a friendly supporting environment that allowed you to be as slow or as fast as you want cause at the end of the day it all pays the same. Don't get me wrong when the beep goes off I give it all I have still to this day whether it's EOT or the local match. I guess the core of what I'm trying to say is that in my experience the competition and results based on that are not enough to keep folks in it for years to come, there has to be another hook. We have it. It's up to the shooters to embrace it. I'm sure many will disagree and feel free to flame away. Just wanted to share my thoughts in the most honest and frank way that I know how. I am sure there are spelling and punctuation errors throughout as I have been accused of being a scholar. Happy new year to all.

Perfect perspective. perfect. that is the end of the thread, right there. From a man that's been to the top and realized what's important.