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SASS HAS BIGGER FISH TO FRY


Judge Gardner

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I think the Territorial Govenors Could spend there time more wisely then if a 68 year cowboy can shoot duelist with adjustable sightes. They need to come up with a way to get the younger Cowboys in to the sport with out having to spending 3,000.00 pluse dollars just to get started. The sport is dieing off due to old age this thing with the sights is not helping.

 

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First, it's not the TG's job to concern themselves with expanding the membership.

 

Secondly, it's not that much money ($3000), when compared to many other competitive games/sports.

 

You put "RVing" as an interest of yours...how cheap is that???

 

Phantom

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$3000 is a lot of money to spend to start any hobby from scratch and potential new people need a bit more than "it's cheaper than a lot of competitive sports" to break the bank. While true, for the majority of us this sport is no more competitive than beer league softball.

 

It's not the TG's job to expand the game (not that I have any idea what their job is), it's all of our jobs to expand. Otherwise the decrease and deceased rate will mirror each other.

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$3000 is a lot of money to spend to start any hobby from scratch and potential new people need a bit more than "it's cheaper than a lot of competitive sports" to break the bank. While true, for the majority of us this sport is no more competitive than beer league softball.

 

It's not the TG's job to expand the game (not that I have any idea what their job is), it's all of our jobs to expand. Otherwise the decrease and deceased rate will mirror each other.

Are there "Hobbies" that are less expensive then CAS? uh...yeah.

 

So what...

 

CAS is more then a hobby. It's a game/sport. It's a competition. Relatively speaking, it's a moderately low entry cost activity.

 

And no, it's not anyone's Job to expand the game. That's the Job of SASS HQ. Does that mean that we don't promote the game??? Nooooo...but to say that the TG's should be concentrating on issues other then rule issues is silly as their "JOB" is just that.

 

man...sometimes...

 

Phantom

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Hi Folks,

 

According to SASS, the following describes a TG's duties. http://www.sassnet.com/TG-Main-001A.php

 

"A Territorial Governor is:

  • A life member of SASS
  • Appointed/elected by the SASS affiliated club members he or she represents
  • The affiliated club's official representative at SASS Territorial Governor meetings
  • Committed to serving the interests of his or her club consistent with the promulgation and preservation of Cowboy Action Shooting and "the Spirit of the Game."
  • RO II Certified.
  • Computer savvy with current e-mail address on file at all times.

Role Summary

A-001A.gifTerritorial Governor is the elected/appointed representative of his or her SASS affiliated club. The Territorial Governor's term of office expires each December 31st. There is no limit to the number of terms one individual may serve.

The Territorial Governor not only represents his constituents to the national body, but also represents the national body to the membership. As with any good politician, the Governor may have personal reservations regarding a position adopted by the Governors, but is always in a position to support and defend "the party line".

The SASS Board of Directors recognizes the Territorial Governors must be in a position of more than mere advisors for this vision to work.

While the SASS Administrative Office and the SASS Corporate Officers have their roles and responsibilities and are chartered with making the decisions necessary to run the company, those issues, policies, and decisions that directly impact the rules of the Cowboy Action Shooting? game will be voted upon by the Territorial Governors.

Questions and issues may originate anywhere, but once they are forwarded to SASS Headquarters, the SASS national organization will frame the questions for the Governors, collect the Governor responses, and construct the proposed revised rules or policies. These proposed revisions will then be reviewed and approved by the Governors.

While many of the Territorial Governor votes will be at the national and regional match meetings chaired by the Wild Bunch, the Territorial Bulletin will generally be used to set the agendas and often used to distribute voting issues. Instructions will be provided in the Bulletin describing the response process.

Specific Duties

  • Territorial Governors gather comments, criticisms, needs, suggestions, and proposed rule changes, and communicate these to the SASS Board of Directors
  • Maintain current knowledge regarding Cowboy Action Shooting and SASS, its history, philosophy, purpose, presence, direction, and Spirit of the Game
  • Communicate the Cowboy Action Shooting story locally/regionally to further the growth of the game
  • Represent and support SASS, its philosophy, and its purpose to club members
  • Network with other clubs and Territorial Governors"
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Adjustable sights are not an issue.

The initial cost are also not that high if you go in to any sport with intentions of being competitive.

 

Mountain Biking ouch.......

off road motorbike another ouch.!

how about golf

 

Yes, you can get in to those sports on the cheap but to be at a competitive level, it's going to cost big dollars.

 

I did none of the above...I did do sail boats starting at age 7 building my own 8' sailboat. (still have it)

Over the years moved up the ladder to 28' boat. Big mistake moving from 22' trailerable to 28' in the water all the time.

example: 22' in 1976 was $5200, today the same boat is over $15,000.

 

Our sport really has very few choices in guns. None of them are cheap and to have top of the line race guns, well $3000 seems less expensive than other sports.

 

My opinion is, this sport or any shooting sport is dying because all media reports are negative. Kids are growing up without ever being exposed to hunting, or sports shooting. They are not taught safe gun handling and use. Instead, they are being raised that guns are evil and no one should have or touch one. But then the selection of violent computer games is endless. Games that teach killing people or zombies or creatures is no big deal and has no consciences. Just hit restart and everything is back and you can do it all again.

 

Adjustable sights are not what is keeping people from coming to this sport.

 

I can see this will become a lengthy opinion piece so I think I will just stop here with my opinion....

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If you're going to quote me, you might want to actually comprehend what I said first. I said it is not the TG's job, yet you seem to claim otherwise.

 

This sport/game will die if people keep using the "it's not that expensive, other sports cost more, play something else if you don't like it."

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Of course the usual disclaimer that mileage may vary,

 

IF,

 

Most SASS shooters are of the age of having children & grandchildren, why don't they help them & encourage them into the sport?

 

Most shooters have enough guns etc to equip another shooter, or could afford to kit them out.

(yes, some are barely able to afford to shoot as it is, but I think the majority could manage it just fine.)

 

If there really was the desire lit like a fire in a grandchild to shoot SASS wouldn't you think that between 2 parents, 4 grandparents & "x" other relatives they could get things together & make it happen?

 

In many sports there is no to play without spending "X" amount of dollars to get started.

 

It's all about priorities of where do people want to spend their money.

If a family of 4 is going out to eat 2x a week & movies 2x a month, etc. it all ads up.

(Not to mention if any of the adults smoke, drink, gamble etc.)

 

For that matter, "we" should try to get more adults, friends co-workers etc. into the sport so they can bring their families in.

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PS It is the rare SASS member that does not "Communicate the Cowboy Action Shooting story locally/regionally to further the growth of the game." I believe that we all like to talk about our beloved sport whenever we have the opportunity.

Frankly, I see zero difference between what is asked of a TG and what the typical SASS member does outside of MAYBE going to the Summit and voting.

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I shoot Senior Duelist and none of my pistols have adjustable sights. Do I think there'd be an advantage in having pistols with adjustable sights....NO in any of the categories we have. I have several non SASS guns with them and they do serve a purpose with those. But for what we do I can't see an advantage or disadvantage of having them. What it does do if it passes is make a person just getting into this that already has a pair of Blackhawks have to go buy more guns or just not shoot. I know there are categories that they can be used in, but that takes away some of the choices that shooter has. I think this whole thing is making a mountain out of a molehill.

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If you're going to quote me, you might want to actually comprehend what I said first. I said it is not the TG's job, yet you seem to claim otherwise.

 

This sport/game will die if people keep using the "it's not that expensive, other sports cost more, play something else if you don't like it."

Please try and be less insulting. I comprehend what you are attempting to say.

 

And it's you opinion that it's expensive. I don't think so.

 

Furthermore, I think it's hilarious that you comment on me quoting you...yet you insert your own comment in quotation marks as to imply that I said the comment ("it's not that expensive, other sports cost more, play something else if you don't like it").

 

Too funny!

 

Phantom

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OK, I'll bite. How would you make it less expensive? The costs are fixed, more or less. We all know that someone could buy a couple of remington 58's on sale at cabelas for $400 a pair. Cheap leather at cabelas would set you back another $100, less if you use your own belt. A Baikal or Stoeger is around $350 new, a Rossi about $525. So for less than $1500, ammo and all, our new guy is shooting his first match. Far from the $3000 figure. I submit that if that is still too high, they should not be considering joining this game until their finances work themselves out.

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I shoot Senior Duelist and none of my pistols have adjustable sights. Do I think there'd be an advantage in having pistols with adjustable sights....NO in any of the categories we have. I have several non SASS guns with them and they do serve a purpose with those. But for what we do I can't see an advantage or disadvantage of having them. What it does do if it passes is make a person just getting into this that already has a pair of Blackhawks have to go buy more guns or just not shoot. I know there are categories that they can be used in, but that takes away some of the choices that shooter has. I think this whole thing is making a mountain out of a molehill.

Hi Charlie,

 

I'm sure you know this; but, your post does not indicate it. An individual can shoot duelist or two-hands on each gun with Blackhawks in the age-based categories. They would not have to buy more guns.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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Please try and be less insulting. I comprehend what you are attempting to say.

 

And it's you opinion that it's expensive. I don't think so.

 

Furthermore, I think it's hilarious that you comment on me quoting you...yet you insert your own comment in quotation marks as to imply that I said the comment ("it's not that expensive, other sports cost more, play something else if you don't like it").

 

Too funny!

 

Phantom

Try to be less insulting? Hey pot, this is the kettle. You're black too!

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I don't think cost for younger shooters is the issue most have the cash look at what they spend on gaming

 

Xbox $350

New game $60 and how many games do most have? My son has around 20. ($1200) and growing all the time

 

Cell phones

Flat screen tvs

Tablets

Computers

 

The money is there most don't know about cas

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OK, I'll bite. How would you make it less expensive? The costs are fixed, more or less. We all know that someone could buy a couple of remington 58's on sale at cabelas for $400 a pair. Cheap leather at cabelas would set you back another $100, less if you use your own belt. A Baikal or Stoeger is around $350 new, a Rossi about $525. So for less than $1500, ammo and all, our new guy is shooting his first match. Far from the $3000 figure. I submit that if that is still too high, they should not be considering joining this game until their finances work themselves out.

Yet every time someone asks what to buy here they are directed towards ~$1300 rifles and $200 action jobs.

 

I think that people being quick to share with new shooters helps a lot with the costs of entering the sport. I still have another pistol to buy and another shot gun and rifle for my wife, yet we are able to shoot every match.

 

What I worry about is what does SASS do when manufacturers stop making some of these guns? If Uberti goes out of business, there's a lot of guns that can't be bought anymore.

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First, the cost argument has been tossed around for longer than I have been shooting CAS (seventeen years). IT IS NOT THE COST!!!! You can make literally any hobby as expensive or as cheap as you like.

 

It is now, and has always been THE PEOPLE you want to hang out with. If folks are having fun, they stay. If they aren't having fun they tend to leave. It's pretty simple. If we spend out time arguing amoungst ourselves it puts off a negative vibe - folks leave. If we concentrate on having fun - folks stay.

 

The adjustable sight rule, well, most likely needs to go away considering all the other things we now allow, but it's not the end of the world.

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I think the Territorial Govenors Could spend there time more wisely then if a 68 year cowboy can shoot duelist with adjustable sightes. They need to come up with a way to get the younger Cowboys in to the sport with out having to spending 3,000.00 pluse dollars just to get started. The sport is dieing off due to old age this thing with the sights is not helping.

You speak of RV'n and your Sharps rifle-How much you got tied up there? :rolleyes:

3K into a hobby ain't much.

Look at what one trick'd out AR15 goes for in modern 3gun. Say nut'n of a full dress 1911 or shotgun. Don't even get me started on trap or skeet.

Maybe you should spend more time involved with this game. Before you start throw'n rocks and try to tear it down.

OLG

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As you posted this almost in unison with my post, I shall assume you didn't see my post. :unsure:

 

Please "give it up" and move on with the discussion in the OP.

I didn't insult anyone...

 

Don't appreciate the "Give it up"...

 

Phantom

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First, the cost argument has been tossed around for longer than I have been shooting CAS (seventeen years). IT IS NOT THE COST!!!! You can make literally any hobby as expensive or as cheap as you like.

 

It is now, and has always been THE PEOPLE you want to hang out with. If folks are having fun, they stay. If they aren't having fun they tend to leave. It's pretty simple. If we spend out time arguing amoungst ourselves it puts off a negative vibe - folks leave. If we concentrate on having fun - folks stay.

 

The adjustable sight rule, well, most likely needs to go away considering all the other things we now allow, but it's not the end of the world.

I agree with you that we all stay or go based on the people. Cost be damned. That's not where the cost is prohibitive. It's expensive to get them in the door. All hobbies are expensive in both money and time. The question is how do we get new people to join when the startup cost is certainly not cheap? I try to tell folks that's it's the initial cost that hurts, but then it's a one time fee and maintenance is not that bad. We all know that isn't true since we end up with second and third guns (and more). I just think saying it's not expensive is insulting. They can count their money as well as I can.
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For me it was a lot of work to shot 100 rounds. And I am not a people person. But that said they are the best people I have every shot with. And unlike other shooting spots the better the shooter the friendlier they are. Always trying to help.

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FWIW. I always bring a complete setup for kids (.22s & a .410) and for adults (.38s and a 16) with leather and ammo to all of the SASS, CFDA and NRA bullseye shoots that I attend. I am an NRA Certified Instructor and provide FREE classes for Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts and adult leaders. I also provide instruction for youth and have taken them to away shoots for the experience. I also take kids sailing and have them bring any of their parents who want to learn to sail. I used to teach scuba and ice boating but age has pretty much ended those activities.

 

Although working with newbies and youth is often frustrating and challenging, it is also immeasurably rewarding. However, I am retired and, of course, can devote more time to that than when I was working. All of the clubs that I have enjoyed were very accommodating and supportive of the kids and adult newbies.

 

Thousands of young boys and girls get to go sailing in the Sea Scouts and many have begun iceboating and scuba diving without spending the big bucks. That's also true of the shooting sports. However, in my lifetime, I have seen a similar ebb and flow in my lifetime because of economic conditions. Although to younger people this appears to be a crisis, to me, it is just a normal retraction and will pass when the progressive liberal malaise inevitably ends.

 

Thousands of kids race sailboats, thousands go skiing and thousands play icehockey and the heavy expense does not deter them, The same can be true of the shooting sports. Here in Idaho, shooting is the same as living and breathing. When I was forced by economic necessity to have an office in Chicago and live at the end of track in Wisconsin, gun ownership was not as universal but by providing the training and initial equipment, we were able to build the numbers significantly. Kids are the same everywhere but opportunities are not. It is up to each of us to provide them in whatever way we can afford and are comfortable doing.

 

No whining about outside forces will succeed at building our sport. It is up to us and us alone.

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CAS is a way of life with many of our members. (self included). IMO, it is not the cost that is keeping the younger folks from embracing the game.. it is the life and times of today's world. Every other show on TV and the movies are centered around Black Guns... the Video Games are Black Guns. I've watched our local Black Gun type club go from small to LARGE over the past few years. Our club is still very populated, but after almost 20 yrs or total domination, we are now the #2 draw at the range. The ONLY young folks that we have a chance at are those who have some family member that is already in the game. Also.... Old folks like to sit around the fire and shoot the $#!t and reminisce with other Old folks. The younger folks are really kinda left out. At recent match, the youngsters got themselves organized, and had their own posse, which they totally ran themselves. It really brought them together. I noticed that they were grouped at the dinner and the awards ceremony too. It helps to have a peer group who's brain operates on the same frequency as yours does.

 

Snakebite

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Hi Charlie,

 

I'm sure you know this; but, your post does not indicate it. An individual can shoot duelist or two-hands on each gun with Blackhawks in the age-based categories. They would not have to buy more guns.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

 

Allie,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the TG agenda. But IF I did use Blackhawks and it passes then Item #2 would be subject to the standards listed in Item #1. That being fixed sights only. Then age consideration. But it really doesn't matter other than being period correct which could or would ban any pistol with adjustable sights in ALL categories except "B" Western, since they weren't available during "our" time period. I still don't think there's any advantage having adjustable sights for the distances we shoot.

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Arguing with and insulting each other isn't going to help bring in new and younger members. It doesn't look good to prospective new members.

As far as cost of this sport goes, it does cost money to play cowboy. There are ways to keep the expense down, buying used, or borrowing ( which is a good idea, till you find what you like to shoot). I myself don't find it that expensive, compared to many other activities.

I do my best to talk up the sport, talking down to fellow members does not make it that inviting to be a part of.

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Allie,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the TG agenda. But IF I did use Blackhawks and it passes then Item #2 would be subject to the standards listed in Item #1. That being fixed sights only. Then age consideration. But it really doesn't matter other than being period correct which could or would ban any pistol with adjustable sights in ALL categories except "B" Western, since they weren't available during "our" time period. I still don't think there's any advantage having adjustable sights for the distances we shoot.

Hi CW,

 

Here is the deal, if the item passes and the individual wants to shoot an age-based-category duelist style with Blackhawks s/he still can. If s/he wants to shoot the category, Senior Duelist, s/he may not use Blackhawks because the Duelist rules take precedence and do not allow them.

 

I hope this helps with understanding the agenda item.

 

Regards,

 

AM

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