The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I've been looking everywhere! I've contacted everybody from Chiappa, to VTI and Taylors! I have a Marbles Improved model tang sight and a Chiappa 1886 .45-70, that came off my 1873 Uberti. The Chiappa and its pre drilled hole, and the screw I have for that fits. The long screw does not! The factory screw from the rifle I tried to have measured by my local Fastenal, thinks it's 12-28 but they didn't know for sure, and said to go to a gunsmith! Ya right! The only smith around here said to have one made, would cost more then the sight is worth! Chiappa, doesn't know what size it is, and has an email out to the factory to make a longer one, but they haven't heard back yet! I talked to Lassiter, and said he could make a longer one by adding a bit to a factory tang screw since he has done that before! Brownells, doesn't have an application for Chiappa, nor does Numrich! VTI doesn't list the Chiappa 1886 either! Buffalo Arms said they could make one, and suggested a smith in MO that could too. I want to see if anybody knows, or has any idea what to do? Marbles Arms is also confused over the application, but to call back after New Years. I'm thinking somebody on here has run into the same issue with a Chiappa 1886. Chiappa's description of the rifle claims it is made to be completely interchangeable with an original Winchester, but nobody can confirm that statement! I'm a mechanic, and not a machinist, so please don't tell me to just make one! I don't trust my welding ability anyway!
Reuben McCoy Rankin # 34239 Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 If you know the exact size and thread count Lee Shaver in Lamar Mo. can make one for not a lot of money. His email is leeshaver74@yahoo.com
Warden Callaway Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Look at what MidwayUSA has to offer. They have several types of tang screws for sights. I just happened to use a Marble's that was 12-32 by 1.75 long on my old New Baker shotgun project. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/363314/marbles-improved-tang-peep-sight-screw-set-15-blue They have several sets. This is the one I used.
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 Look at what MidwayUSA has to offer. They have several types of tang screws for sights. I just happened to use a Marble's that was 12-32 by 1.75 long on my old New Baker shotgun project. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/363314/marbles-improved-tang-peep-sight-screw-set-15-blue They have several sets. This is the one I used. Looked on there too! IF the size Fastenal said it is, is correct as 12-28! He said it also could be metric with a .9 pitch.
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Lee Shaver does have 10-28 screws. That is the screw I needed to attach the Soule Sight I bought from him to my Armi Sports (Chiappa) Sharps
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 If you know the exact size and thread count Lee Shaver in Lamar Mo. can make one for not a lot of money. His email is leeshaver74@yahoo.com Lee Shaver is the smith Buffalo Arms suggested! I can do that, but hoping to find a actual supplier of the screw! Who knows how long it will take to get it from Lee. However that may be my only option!
Cat Brules Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 There's lot you didn't tell us and your topic information is a bit unclear to me. I think you are looking for a screw longer than the one you have, ---thread pattern? This is critical. A local machine shop may be able to help. DON'T let the screw you have out of your hands or sight for any reason! ---the screw you have may be a 12-24 size, rather than 12-28, if Chiappa used common sizes ---how long do you need? ---head type? Pan head? ---steel, brass, stainless? Maybe doesn't matter now. ---slotted, phillips or other may not matter now Point is, determine ideally what you need and what you're willing to accept before you go looking. Call Jack First, Inc in South Dakota and discuss. The length you need and thread pattern and head type are pretty critical. Knowing how much thread you need on the screw shaft is very helpful. An industrial supply house such as McMaster Carr or Grainger might be able to help. Google all these outfits. Hope this helps.
Warden Callaway Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Looked on there too! IF the size Fastenal said it is, is correct as 12-28! He said it also could be metric with a .9 pitch. Couldn't you take your gun to Fastenall and have them try a couple of "suspect" sizes to figure it out? Or just buy a sample of each and take home to try? I'd think you could just try running the test screw in from the bottom. Obviously, don't force it. If it's the right size, it should go in by finger force. Once you know the for sure size, the hunt will narrow. If you can only get one the right size and long enough, but wrong head design, you could modify it on drill press or even hand drill.
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 There's lot you didn't tell us and your topic information is a bit unclear to me. I think you are looking for a screw longer than the one you have, ---thread pattern? This is critical. A local machine shop may be able to help. DON'T let the screw you have out of your hands or sight for any reason! ---the screw you have may be a 12-24 size, rather than 12-28, if Chiappa used common sizes ---how long do you need? ---head type? Pan head? ---steel, brass, stainless? Maybe doesn't matter now. ---slotted, phillips or other may not matter now Point is, determine ideally what you need and what you're willing to accept before you go looking. Call Jack First, Inc in South Dakota and discuss. The length you need and thread pattern and head type are pretty critical. Knowing how much thread you need on the screw shaft is very helpful. An industrial supply house such as McMaster Carr or Grainger might be able to help. Google all these outfits. Hope this helps. Fastenal thinks its 12-28 and for head shape, I would assume it to be an "oval" slotted screw! The one I need would be 1.800 to 1.875 length! I'll check with Jack First!
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 Couldn't you take your gun to Fastenall and have them try a couple of "suspect" sizes to figure it out? Or just buy a sample of each and take home to try? I'd think you could just try running the test screw in from the bottom. Obviously, don't force it. If it's the right size, it should go in by finger force. Once you know the for sure size, the hunt will narrow. If you can only get one the right size and long enough, but wrong head design, you could modify it on drill press or even hand drill. Fastenal, barely wanted to even address this! He didn't have or show a listing for a 12-28 screw or nut, but tried my screw in a 12-32 nut, and only caught the first thread!
Chili Ron Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Howdy, Seems like you have got yourself a correct screw and just need a longer one, right? So take the correct screw to a hardware store where they have open bins and find a nut that fits your screw just right. Now write down the size and specs from that nut. And take that nut over to the bins that match your correct screw and find the longer screw that fits the nut. Put the nut back in the bin where it came from and buy the correct longer screw. This should take about ten minutes....whats the fuss? If the screw sticks out from the rifle after putting the sight on either buy a shorter screw or grind off a bit of extra metal and put on a dot of blue or magic marker black. Is there some complexity to the task Im missing? Best CR
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 Howdy, Seems like you have got yourself a correct screw and just need a longer one, right? So take the correct screw to a hardware store where they have open bins and find a nut that fits your screw just right. Now write down the size and specs from that nut. And take that nut over to the bins that match your correct screw and find the longer screw that fits the nut. Put the nut back in the bin where it came from and buy the correct longer screw. This should take about ten minutes....whats the fuss? If the screw sticks out from the rifle after putting the sight on either buy a shorter screw or grind off a bit of extra metal and put on a dot of blue or magic marker black. Is there some complexity to the task Im missing? Best CR The size I have is NOT a common thread! If Fastenal doesn't have anything like it, NO hardware store will either! Its a gun screw, not a machine screw! Not to mention, I don't live in a real big city that sells muffler bearings or blinker fluid! Some things just can not be had locally! That! Is what you are missing! Good Day!
Sedalia Dave Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Go to your local hardware store the one that actually sells hardware usually an Ace or TruValue and not a big box store or Fastenal. MOst have been in business for several decades in the same location. They will have a isle full of 2" X 12" cardboard boxes fill of screws and nuts of almost every size and thread pitch including metric. Ask the person at the counter where they keep their < Hillman > hardware. Take the screw and try different nuts (Metric and standard) until you have one that A.) threads on using only your fingers. B.) it will not wiggle when fully threaded on the screw. Now using the size that the nut is supposed to be get a screw that is supposed to mate to it and see if it screws into the nut. You have to to this because A$%^@ cannot put things back where they got them. Once you have a screw that properly fits the nut buy them both it from the store. Now make sure it will thread into your rifle. If it does now you know exactly what size and pitch you need. You need the nut in case you have to buy a screw that is too long for your rifle and need to cut it down. Before cutting it thread the nut on the screw. Cut the screw using an abrasive wheel on a dremel tool or a jewlers saw. DO NOT use a hacksaw. After cutting you remove the nut and it will straighten the threads and remove any burs from the cutting process. The tang sight on my 1895 Marlin was too long but had plenty of thread so I just cut it to fit using the above method.
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 If somebody has an original Winchester 1886, could you perhaps take your rear tang screw out and measure the threads on it to see if the count is 12-28 to confirm it or mine uses the same everything a Chiappa does!?!?
Cat Brules Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Howdy, Seems like you have got yourself a correct screw and just need a longer one, right? So take the correct screw to a hardware store where they have open bins and find a nut that fits your screw just right. Now write down the size and specs from that nut. And take that nut over to the bins that match your correct screw and find the longer screw that fits the nut. Put the nut back in the bin where it came from and buy the correct longer screw. This should take about ten minutes....whats the fuss? If the screw sticks out from the rifle after putting the sight on either buy a shorter screw or grind off a bit of extra metal and put on a dot of blue or magic marker black. Is there some complexity to the task Im missing? Best CR Yeah, I think there may be some complexity that makes the search problematic. He's looking for a firearms screw. IF the manufacturer is following old specs and even if they didn't, it can be tough sometimes to find replacement screws of all the various dimensional data being discussed here. Head types, thread patterns thread lengths on the screw shaft will vary considerably from those seen in common, generically-available industrial applications "fasteners." Very often, specific screws are custom for a particular firearm. Knowing can be a process and often it's hard to know until you go looking.
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Call the techs at Brownell's 800-741-0015 http://www.brownells.com/ OLG
Sedalia Dave Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 The size I have is NOT a common thread! If Fastenal doesn't have anything like it, NO hardware store will either! Its a gun screw, not a machine screw! Not to mention, I don't live in a real big city that sells muffler bearings or blinker fluid! Some things just can not be had locally! That! Is what you are missing! Good Day! Fastenal is not the store they once were they carry mostly standard sizes. They no longer sell individual screws, you have to buy the whole pack. An old fashioned hardware store with all the cardboard trays is more likely to have the correct screw than Fastenal ever will and even if they don't have the exact screw you can at least verify the size and thread pitch. I have been exactly where youare now and my local Mom and Pop hardware store has bailed me out more than once. Then go here http://www.mcmaster.com/#screws/=v9hk7gand see if you can match it up
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 Call the techs at Brownell's 800-741-0015 http://www.brownells.com/ OLG Been there, did that! No application, or anything specific to the size for a Chiappa!
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 Yeah, I think there may be some complexity that makes the search problematic. He's looking for a firearms screw. IF the manufacturer is following old specs and even if they didn't, it can be tough sometimes to find replacement screws of all the various dimensional data being discussed here. Head types, thread patterns thread lengths on the screw shaft will vary considerably from those seen in common, generically-available industrial applications "fasteners." Very often, specific screws are custom for a particular firearm. Knowing can be a process and often it's hard to know until you go looking. Ya, what you said!
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 Fastenal is not the store they once were they carry mostly standard sizes. They no longer sell individual screws, you have to buy the whole pack. An old fashioned hardware store with all the cardboard trays is more likely to have the correct screw than Fastenal ever will and even if they don't have the exact screw you can at least verify the size and thread pitch. I have been exactly where youare now and my local Mom and Pop hardware store has bailed me out more than once. Then go here http://www.mcmaster.com/#screws/=v9hk7gand see if you can match it up I have a request at McMasters too! They don't stock that thread either!
Cat Brules Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Call the techs at Brownell's 800-741-0015 http://www.brownells.com/ OLG ditto that. Pay attention to the tech's name. Some are sharper or more willing to help than others. If you get little or no help first time, call back a couple hours later and trust you get a different one. Start over with the second or third one.
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Get a inch and metric thread gauge, and measure the thread of your stock bolt. OLG
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 ditto that. Pay attention to the tech's name. Some are sharper or more willing to help than others. If you get little or no help first time, call back a couple hours later and trust you get a different one. Start over with the second or third one. Get a inch and metric thread gauge, and measure the thread of your stock bolt. OLG Done that! on the thread gauge! As for Brownells again, and again, I will do it on Monday after New Years instead of dealing with the skeleton crew!
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 FWIW & IIRC-- My japchester '86 tang screw is 12/28, and I got it from Brownell's. OLG
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 When I get back from the Doc's office. I'll measure mine for thread pitch and OAL. OLG
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 When I get back from the Doc's office. I'll measure mine for thread pitch and OAL. OLG That will work! Thanks!
Warden Callaway Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Maybe call Marble's. They have a number of kits to mount their sights. It my be a matter of figuring out the right one. I feel your pain. The tang screw was all but stripped on my old Baker shotgun. From all the measuring and using thread gauge, I couldn't come up with anything standard that would work. Even took the screw to Westlake Hardware and tired to match it. I had the 12-32 tang screw that was just a bit bigger. Ended up getting a 12-32 tap from Midwayusa and recuting the thread.
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 Maybe call Marble's. They have a number of kits to mount their sights. It my be a matter of figuring out the right one. I feel your pain. The tang screw was all but stripped on my old Baker shotgun. From all the measuring and using thread gauge, I couldn't come up with anything standard that would work. Even took the screw to Westlake Hardware and tired to match it. I had the 12-32 tang screw that was just a bit bigger. Ended up getting a 12-32 tap from Midwayusa and recuting the thread. I will again on Monday! There hasn't been anybody in the office since before Christmas! Same with VTI and others!
Cat Brules Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I know you said you've done this, but next week, after the New Year, get hold of Marble Arms again and speak to their technician, Troy. See if he will do an extended search for you and come up with a proper screw, even if it's too long. Marble Arms 906.428.3710
Sedalia Dave Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Here are the exact specifications for non metric screws and bolts from 0-80 to 1/4-56 http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/screws/unified.cfm And metric 1.6-35 to 100-6 http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/screws/screwm_coarse.cfm
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 I know you said you've done this, but next week, after the New Year, get hold of Marble Arms again and speak to their technician, Troy. See if he will do an extended search for you and come up with a proper screw, even if it's too long. Marble Arms 906.428.3710 I will! I just can't believe it isn't available by application from any of the sites on the web! The response I first got from Chiappa was the screw was suppose to be a 10-40, and I know that is wrong! Just priceless!
Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Don't bother with Jack First, I tried to get a tang screw for my Miroku 73 and they said they don't have individual screws, just what comes with the tang sights. I live only a few miles from them and was face to face with them. They aren't what they used to be either.
The Polish Pistolero Posted December 31, 2014 Author Posted December 31, 2014 Don't bother with Jack First, I tried to get a tang screw for my Miroku 73 and they said they don't have individual screws, just what comes with the tang sights. I live only a few miles from them and was face to face with them. They aren't what they used to be either. I tried to call them a few minutes ago, and no answer anyway! No harm, no foul!
Guest Grass Range #51406 Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 The Fastenal guy sounds like a dandy! Anybody with a pitch gauge can tell pitch in a second. Make from a blank screw kit (Brownells) and cut to length and thread. $5 from your gunsmith
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