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.357 or 38 spl?


Big Arm Hannigan

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First, a disclaimer. I am NOT asking for specific load data. What I want to know is which brass to buy. I want to load for a Smith model 60 3" (I know, not a single action) and a lever action rifle, preferably a Marlin, but don't have one yet. Did see a new one at a Cabelas yesterday and it was very nice. Did not seem to have the problems mentioned with remlins. I am going to order brass tomorrow so want to know what most recommend. I will be using mostly light plinking loads, especially in the Smith (although, it is a .357), but may want heavier loads now and then. Are you able to load light loads in .357 brass with its extra length or not? Seems if that is possible, then .357 brass would be the most flexible.

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personally I like using brass that fits the chamber. less bullet jump to chamber or throat. seems to feed smoother in lever gun. go to hogdon reload manuel and you will find a range of loads to satisfy almost everyones needs. just the idle thoughts of an idle fellow GW

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You can load some pretty stout .38 specials if you have need to....just make sure the brass you buy is rated +p.

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You can load some pretty stout .38 specials if you have need to....just make sure the brass you buy is rated +p.

This is from the Starline brass web site for .38 spl brass. Quote...

 

 

"38 SPL+P has no difference from the standard 38 SPL, other than headstamp designation for load segregation. This is due to the fact that our standard case design will handle +P pressures with no problems".

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Big Arm:

 

If you decide to go with the Marlin Cowboy 'Competition' 1894, it will ONLY accept .38 Spl. They might be nearly impossible to acquire now, but ya never know.

 

My opinion on brass: big bunches of .38 Spl and a small bunch of .357

 

You may not want to shoot magnum loads often, but you will love the performance of a true .357 magnum load in a rifle.

 

 

..........Widder

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First, a disclaimer. I am NOT asking for specific load data. What I want to know is which brass to buy. I want to load for a Smith model 60 3" (I know, not a single action) and a lever action rifle, preferably a Marlin, but don't have one yet. Did see a new one at a Cabelas yesterday and it was very nice. Did not seem to have the problems mentioned with remlins. I am going to order brass tomorrow so want to know what most recommend. I will be using mostly light plinking loads, especially in the Smith (although, it is a .357), but may want heavier loads now and then. Are you able to load light loads in .357 brass with its extra length or not? Seems if that is possible, then .357 brass would be the most flexible.

 

I've seen cowboy pards use both 38 and/or 357 for rifle & revolver. Depending on the rifle 357 feeds better for some. I use 38's in all with no problem with a 38 158 RNFP and Trailboss. Bullet jump; the distance the bullet has to go to get to the rifling. There's way more factors at work here than that distance which affects accuracy. None of us are shooting MOA, unless you're using the rifle/load to shoot long range. For main match stuff, its a non-issue.

 

Light loads. Especially with your little S&W, preferred. Yes you can load 357 light. this is from the IMR site, loads are lowest shown and max;

357mag Titegroup 125 LRNFP 1,055 - 1,274

357mag Clays 125 LRNFP 984 - 1,260

38sp Titegroup 125 LRNFP 856 - 985

38sp Clays 125 LRNFP 810 - 978

These are examples. Note that LOTS of cowboys shoot loads less than these either by using a different powder or going against the recomendation against using loads under the minimum. 100FPS isn't much, but it will make a difference in recoil in that little S&W. Try some loads and see what works for ya!

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Big Arm:

 

If you decide to go with the Marlin Cowboy 'Competition' 1894, it will ONLY accept .38 Spl. They might be nearly impossible to acquire now, but ya never know.

 

My opinion on brass: big bunches of .38 Spl and a small bunch of .357

 

You may not want to shoot magnum loads often, but you will love the performance of a true .357 magnum load in a rifle.

 

 

..........Widder

Well that would probably be out of my price range anyway. I do have a LTD V 1895 and a cowboy 1894 in 44-40. Probably just an ordinary rifle would be fine. I saw a new regular one at a store yesterday and it was very nice.

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First there are several models of 1894 Marlins. Some are chambered for 357, while others are chambered for 38 Spl. only. So look at the stamp on the barrel, to find what it's chambered for.

 

If it's chambered for 38 Spl., then you have no choice but to use 38's. If its chambered for 357, then you have a choice. However, be advised that MOST Marlins chambered for 357, usually do not like 38 Spl. cartridge length ammo, unless they have been smithed by a knowlegable smith, to operate reliably with the shorter 38 Spl. ammo.

 

My personal advice is to use 357 cases, (if the rifle is so chambered), in all your ammo, rifle or pistol. That way the ammo will work and feed in the rifle, and fit the revolver as well.

 

Yes you can load down the 357 ammo to 38 Spl. (and +P), velocities. Not a problem. But you cannot load 38 Spl. cases to the high velocities, (and pressures), that you can in 357 cases.

 

So, if appropriate for the rifle, the 357 cases are the route to go. If the rifle is chambered for 38 Spl., then 38's are the way to go.

You can always load a few 357's for your pistol, if you desire.

 

RBK

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If the rifle is chambered for .38 Special, the large amount of .38 and small amounts of .357 for the S&W.

If the rifle is chambered for .357, then you will want use it with what works best. If the rifle is in .357, you can try a couple hundred rounds of both sizes.

Georgia Arms sells cowboy-level loads in Starline (the best) brass. You can buy from them online and build your brass inventory quickly.

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If you shoot a lot of 38 special in guns chambered for .357 a ring of carbonized fowling will build up in the very front of the chamber. Unless you clean this out on a real regular basis it will prevent you from chambering .357s.

Depending on the powder as few as 100 rounds can create enough build up to prevent the rounds from chambering. It is harder to remove than the fowling in your barrel but there are tricks to assisting in its removal.

The best one I have found is to shoot a match using APP or Holy Black. Removes the fowling and you can have fun doing so. ;)

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Big Arm-It sounds like this won't be for cowboy shooting so the nod may go to the 357 but I would have both on hand, one thing that hasn't come up is load density, for light loads the 357 won't be as efficient and will be easier to double charge.

I use both brass routinely in my 357 J frame size revolvers, 38 for plinking and home protection and 357 for woods walking.

Are you new to MT? I try to shoot at the Big Fork cub a couple times a yr, Cowboys from Eureka, Bigfork, and Missoula shoot at my club near Noxon (Rocky MT Rangers)from time to time.

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Order .38 spl brass, load the low level loads that will feed well through your rifle for CAS shooting and revolver plinking.

 

For now, just buy self-defense .357 loads for your hot loads situation. If you had to use them for self-defense, there is no lawyer argument that you made up something that was "really dangerous" for a gullible jury to make an award over.

 

There is a whole handful of reasons to use the differences between the two cartridges to your advantage. Besides, the .357 brass will be significantly higher cost and difficulty finding it.

 

Good luck, GJ

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You can load some pretty stout .38 specials if you have need to....just make sure the brass you buy is rated +p.

The brass is the same-The +P note is for the gun specs.

 

O.P.-Go with .357 cases, IF you can find'em.

OLG

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Howdy,

I might have some .357 fired brass somewhere around.

If you cant find new .357 let me know and I will look.

I haven't fired .357 lately just 38 sp for fun.

This would be nowhere near new brass.

Best

CR

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38 brass is 1/4th the price of 357 brass. I got once fired 38 brass for about $70/100. I've seen some 357 brass as high as $250 per 100...

 

If you need max power you'll want 357 brass, but it's nto much fun to shoot in a pistol. Great in a rifle for hunting though.

For plinking/fun/CAS/target work 38 is all you need.

 

For good/relaible feeding in your rifle you'll want to load OAL of 1.5" or so. If you have no 'need for speed' then shorter will be fine. I shot my rossi 92 for a good while with no issues. It's only with the speed of CAS competition that I started jacking out life rounds. Loading them longer stopped that.

 

If you shoot a lot w/ 38 you may have a buildup of lead/crud in the chamber that makes it hard to chamber a 357 case. I've not had this occur, but have talked to some that have. Not hard to fixl, just something to be aware of.

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38 brass is 1/4th the price of 357 brass. I got once fired 38 brass for about $70/100. I've seen some 357 brass as high as $250 per 100...

 

If you need max power you'll want 357 brass, but it's nto much fun to shoot in a pistol. Great in a rifle for hunting though.

For plinking/fun/CAS/target work 38 is all you need.

 

For good/relaible feeding in your rifle you'll want to load OAL of 1.5" or so. If you have no 'need for speed' then shorter will be fine. I shot my rossi 92 for a good while with no issues. It's only with the speed of CAS competition that I started jacking out life rounds. Loading them longer stopped that.

 

If you shoot a lot w/ 38 you may have a buildup of lead/crud in the chamber that makes it hard to chamber a 357 case. I've not had this occur, but have talked to some that have. Not hard to fixl, just something to be aware of.

 

Cow Chip: if you are paying $70/100 for once used brass, I hate to tell you that you're getting ripped off big time. Heck, I'll sell you 100 for only $60.

 

;)

 

..........Widder

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This week I picked up about 3000-4000 rds of 38 once fired brass..................for free

 

There were so many I gave away half, I can always get more...........for free

 

I just saved $2,100 to $2,800

 

It's good to have friends ;)

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Recently .357 brass has been harder to find than .38 Special. Hopefully that won't always be the situation.

Starline says if you order now .357 mag brass will be shipped on the 16th of January. It costs $80 per 500. Once fired 38 special should cost less than $70 a thousand not per hundred!

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Big Arm-It sounds like this won't be for cowboy shooting so the nod may go to the 357 but I would have both on hand, one thing that hasn't come up is load density, for light loads the 357 won't be as efficient and will be easier to double charge.

I use both brass routinely in my 357 J frame size revolvers, 38 for plinking and home protection and 357 for woods walking.

Are you new to MT? I try to shoot at the Big Fork cub a couple times a yr, Cowboys from Eureka, Bigfork, and Missoula shoot at my club near Noxon (Rocky MT Rangers)from time to time.

Not really new to Montana, although in Montana time I guess so. We have lived here for 7 and a half years. Actually owned our property for more than 20 years, but finally moved here in 2007. Seems if you haven't lived here for 30+ years you are still a newcomer. That's fine with us. We have not shot cowboy action since we moved here. In fact, it wasn't until last spring when we started competition shooting again. We are doing USPSA and 3 gun. We are as bad or maybe worse at it as we were in cowboy. Will have to look up your club and come visit next spring. I assume you don't have shoots during the winter.

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Not really new to Montana, although in Montana time I guess so. We have lived here for 7 and a half years. Actually owned our property for more than 20 years, but finally moved here in 2007. Seems if you haven't lived here for 30+ years you are still a newcomer. That's fine with us. We have not shot cowboy action since we moved here. In fact, it wasn't until last spring when we started competition shooting again. We are doing USPSA and 3 gun. We are as bad or maybe worse at it as we were in cowboy. Will have to look up your club and come visit next spring. I assume you don't have shoots during the winter.

That's correct, first shoot usually april, check out rockymountainrangers.com be great to meet you folks.

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If you shoot a lot of 38 special in guns chambered for .357 a ring of carbonized fowling will build up in the very front of the chamber. Unless you clean this out on a real regular basis it will prevent you from chambering .357s.

Depending on the powder as few as 100 rounds can create enough build up to prevent the rounds from chambering. It is harder to remove than the fowling in your barrel but there are tricks to assisting in its removal.

The best one I have found is to shoot a match using APP or Holy Black. Removes the fowling and you can have fun doing so. ;)

Sedalia Dave is spot on about the carbon fouling in the chamber. A pard I shoot with had been using .38 spl in his pistols and rifle for some time and did not scrub out the chambers very well. When he decided to go to the range and shoot some full load .357, he found they would not chamber. It took him a lot of work to scrub out the pistol cylinders, and the rifle was a whole different story as it was a Rossi and getting a tool into the chamber was much more difficult.

 

I only shoot mag brass in mag firearms - and load for what ever purpose I need them for.

 

If one wants to shoot .38 spl (or .44 spl) in a mag firearm, make sure you scrub out the chambers on a regular basis, and even keep a dummy mag round happy to do a fit check.

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I guess your question has several answers:

--- should you buy .38special or .357magnum brass to reload?

I suggest you buy .38special because it's cheaper, easier to find, cheaper to reload, etc. If you want to keep +P or .357 on hand for other requirements, just buy it as a single box of factory ammo with the type of bullet you want. You may have to order this ammo, as many local suppliers won't have it in stock these days. Of course, save the brass. Don't buy ammo made to military specifications, as very often it has crimped-in primers....quite problematic to reload. You can see the crimp as usually three little bumps in the primer pocket around the primer. Too much thouble to deal with.

I suggest you only buy premium USA-mfg commercial ammo if you do buy factory made.

 

---What brass should you order?

As noted above, order .38special brass. The +P brass is not easy to find and if you reload to those pressures sometimes, mark the box, instead of relying on a headstamp or a mark on the brass. With factory ammo you know what you have and with reloads it's easy enough to mix up brass and reloaded ammo. A good method to know is to use visibly different profile bullets. The +P headstamp is to ID the load; the brass is the same.

 

Yeah you can load light smokeless powder loads in .357mag brass. Unsure about black powder, but that doesn't sound like an issue for you.

What brand of brass? Many here will recommend Starline.

How many pieces? If you aren't shooting CAS or other competition, 300 to 500 pieces should be enough. For new brass call Starline or buy it off Amazon or some other site.

 

ONE LAST THING: make sure the Marlin will reliably cycle .38special ammo or you'll need to have it worked to do so.

 

Sorry if the above seems too basic; I just don't know what you know.

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