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El Hombre Sin Nombre

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So here's another question then for the Uberti aficionados. Is there a preference on which distributor to go through? Is it better to go through someone like Long hunter (bought 4 guns from them already this year alone), or get the gun first and then decide who and where to get the work done? How about price? What is a good price to pay for one stock versus one that has work done? And anything in between?

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Just brought a brand new .44-40 Winchester sporting rifle (straight stock, 24" barrel) home today. It's a masterpiece. I'm not going to do a thing to the action. Only and I mean only Goex ffg or fffg will ever find it's way into that barrel as long as I'm alive. I already have a Uberti 1873 short rifle but if you read the fabulous Western novel: Brules by the late Harry Combs, you will never be happy until you have the longer version. The only thing that I might do to the rifle would be to rub on two coats of Tru-Oil to the wood. The walnut is very smooth and has nice figuring but the finish not very exciting.

 

Eeek! I just read on the Winchester site that they are limiting production of my new rifle to 250. Now I'm wondering if I should just put it back in the box and keep it in the back of the safe. Seriously!

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Here is an image of the new Winchester and my old faithful CAS Uberti short rifle (which at one time actually was a sporting rifle with the longer barrel):

 

http://s1203.photobucket.com/user/valcano/media/IMG_4433.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

 

PGW offers a replacement bolt that is hollow (read lighter) and has a plug extension that eliminates the original bolt with rebounding hammer. If there is a problem with ignition one of those would be a good idea. It would be very interesting to see an image like the one above that depicted the new Winchester 73 along side an original with the same options as the new one. I'm still not sure that it would be in the best interests of posterity to shoot what already is a rare piece.

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I can't disagree more with the statement that the Winchester is not match ready, out of the box. I have 3 and all are smooth and accurate without any work.To compare it with an Uberti that has an action job and short stroke is just plain ridiculous. The idea is to compare both guns brand new, the Winchester is way ahead , and it's made much better. My point is they both cost the same and the only way the Uberti is better is with an action job , this is one of a thousand opinions .

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I can't disagree more with the statement that the Winchester is not match ready, out of the box. I have 3 and all are smooth and accurate without any work.To compare it with an Uberti that has an action job and short stroke is just plain ridiculous. The idea is to compare both guns brand new, the Winchester is way ahead , and it's made much better. My point is they both cost the same and the only way the Uberti is better is with an action job , this is one of a thousand opinions .

You think the Win is "match ready" out of the box?

 

Why?

 

Phantom

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It really depends on how fast you shoot if something is "match ready" out of the box. I have owned both box stock and one was match ready at the time because it was my first match and also first time shooting that gun. But at this point either gun box stock is going to slow me down.

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I have a couple Uberti's and a new Winchester. One Uberti has been in service for 12+ years, no short stroke, I don't like short strokes, never could get use to them. I changed the front sight on the Winchester, disabled the lever safety, and it works better, for myself, than my old Uberti. I'll probably sell off my Uberti's and buy another Winchester. The screws on the Uberti's are very soft, not a problem with the Winchester. I'd rather be longstrokin' than shortstrokin'.

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It really depends on how fast you shoot if something is "match ready" out of the box. I have owned both box stock and one was match ready at the time because it was my first match and also first time shooting that gun. But at this point either gun box stock is going to slow me down.

With that definition...EVERYTHING is "match ready".

 

:blink:

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With that definition...EVERYTHING is "match ready".

 

:blink:

The point is a box stock gun may be match ready for one shooter because of their speed but not even close for another shooter due to their ability to shoot much faster. So No , it depends on application if a gun is match ready from the box. In your case I would say no to shooting a stock gun in a match. But you already know that.

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Match ready out of the box seems to be the term used by paid reviews, personally match ready is when you find out your guns faults and make them able to take the abuse we put the through and run smooth. Nothing worse than finding out something jams, doesn't feel right or just doesn't work as expected.

 

I have a new Winchester in 45lc it's a very nice rifle that I bought to replace my Uberti that I sold last year. I spent a year getting the Uberti the way I. Wanted it . So is my new wichester match ready absolutely not , I have not ran it in a match and will need time to find its weakness and feel 100% confident in it

imagejpg1_zps0d7be484.jpg

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The point is a box stock gun may be match ready for one shooter because of their speed but not even close for another shooter due to their ability to shoot much faster. So No , it depends on application if a gun is match ready from the box. In your case I would say no to shooting a stock gun in a match. But you already know that.

I know...just givin ya a little rub ;):P

 

I think the general understanding of Match ready is kinda as Mr. Site's stated. "Stock" guns that are used in CAS are going to be relatively clunky compared to those that are not straight out of the "Box". Even those guns that have had nothing done to them since they left the "Box" but have had many hours of use will be more "Match Ready".

 

Anywayz...y'all know that ;)

 

Phantom

 

PS: Match Ready certainly doesn't have to include mod's like SS kits, etc...action work plus springs can make all the difference in the world.

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I have a couple Uberti's and a new Winchester. One Uberti has been in service for 12+ years, no short stroke, I don't like short strokes, never could get use to them. I changed the front sight on the Winchester, disabled the lever safety, and it works better, for myself, than my old Uberti. I'll probably sell off my Uberti's and buy another Winchester. The screws on the Uberti's are very soft, not a problem with the Winchester. I'd rather be longstrokin' than shortstrokin'.

If you ever saw how fast Assassin fires his rifle in a match you'd be as shocked as I was to learn that he doesn't short-stroke his lever guns! Deb and I have had several lever rifles tuned by Cody C and Nate Kiowa but have never short stroked them either. We shoot mostly BP so what's the point when you have to wait for smoke to clear most of the time anyhow. If Little Deb and I ever get back into CAS, and that may happen on a limited basis in 2015, speed won't be the priority it once was, So my 73 is match ready. I'm so impressed with the new Winchester 73 that now I want a Model 92 Case Hardened Sporter .44-40 and a Model 94 Sporter .38-55. Does this ever end?

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I shoot an Uberti 18 inch straight stock with a C&I 4th gen short stroke in it. I've put about 20,000 rounds through it so far with no issues at all.

 

I handled two new Winchesters last week and they were not even close to mine in terms of the length of the stroke, the smoothness of the actions or triggers. It may be that we have gunsmiths and parts that will allow a stock Winchester to be tuned to run as well or better than a slicked up Uberti, but out of the box the two Winchesters I tried were not ready to shoot in a match.

 

I've heard quite a bit about the Winchesters having higher quality metal, but it's not clear to me how we 'know' this. They haven't been around long enough to see how they hold up to CAS type usage, so how do we know that their metal is better?

 

The problem most folks focus on is the rim shelf breaking off the Uberti bolts. This was not an issue until the short stroke guns became more common. In other words I think it has to do with how the SS kit is timed. My experience after many years of working these guns is some SS work doesn't contain the pressure as well as others which can stress the bolt head breaking the tab. Once there are more of the winchester out there time will tell.

 

So you're saying that your fine tuned, short stroked, race ready Uberti is smoother than a brand new Winchester out of the box? That's not really a fair comparison is it? Shouldn't the comparison be between out of the box guns? I have spoken to folks that work on both and the consensus seems to be that after work the Uberti are still slicker and faster. The Winchesters require less work and are made with tighter tolerances and higher quality out of the box. I've worked on neither so I'm just the messenger.

 

As for the metal, well I don't know this, but plenty of folks that have experience with metallurgy do and they're the ones saying it. I am still new so I can't speak for the past, but I imagine that Rugers faced the same comparison at first and now it's become common knowledge that Rugers hold up better in the long haul. I wonder if that will be the case with the Winchesters in a few years. I guess time will tell. It does seem to me that the most ardent defenders of Uberti are the same folks that have sunk a lot of money in them over the years and are trying to defend themselves by dissing the Winchesters. At least that's my opinion and we all know what opinions are worth.

 

I personally don't see anything wrong with liking both. If I had unlimited funds I would have both, or more in every caliber available. I love my '66 and it has very little work done on it, isn't all that smooth and certainly not short stroked. I might do it someday, but a short stroke isn't going to place me at the top of anyone's boards anytime soon. While a stock Winchester might not be ready for you to shoot in a match, I am certain that it will be just fine for me. But I am a looks good first and shoots good second kind of guy so what do I know?

 

Sorry, apples and oranges.

If you want tuff out of the box, Ruger is the way to go, but I don`t consider it to be a clone. The ruger lock works were designed in the 1950's. It is nothing like the colt style lock basically unchanged since 1836.

 

Comparing Rugers to a colt SAA or Colt SAA clone is like comparing 60`s muscle cars to model T`s.

 

You think the Win is "match ready" out of the box?

 

Why?

 

Phantom

If you just want to go have fun, that's one thing but expecting to be competitive with an out-of-the-box stock gun is not likely to happen. I've said this many times. You can take the family sedan to the track once or twice and run hell out of it, but if you do it on a regular basis, you gonna look up and see you crankshaft in the rear-view mirror.

 

Race cars have to be tuned to race, so do guns that are raced.

 

In any race the degree of work is directly proportional to the ability of the competitor. you never want your equipment to hold you back. It should always be a little bit better than you.

 

 

Barrel lengths?

It seems the preferred setup for 38 spec is the 20" octagon. The 357m 24's are just to front heavy for the faster shooters. The 20" oct is not too long to move with but still has some forward weight to help stable up.

As for the 44's & 45"s the 24 inch's are naturally lighter up front only because of the bigger bore/less metal

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I talked to the guys at pioneer gun works and the way they explained it to me is that the new Winchester is not a true clone, but rather what the 73 would have looked like if Winchester kept making that model. I know a lot less than they do, but that sounds a lot like apples to apples to me

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I talked to the guys at pioneer gun works and the way they explained it to me is that the new Winchester is not a true clone, but rather what the 73 would have looked like if Winchester kept making that model. I know a lot less than they do, but that sounds a lot like apples to apples to me

The Uberti is closer to a real Winchester than the current "Winchester" clone.

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Eeek! I just read on the Winchester site that they are limiting production of my new rifle to 250. Now I'm wondering if I should just put it back in the box and keep it in the back of the safe. Seriously!

 

Where does it say that? I was looking a little while ago and didn't see it, also, has that been updated since the reintroduction or is this just the original projections? The reason I ask is because I remember someone getting one of these with the serial number in the 600 range somewhere. Now I don't know if that is 600 across the entire line or just that model of course, but I wonder how accurate the 250 number actually is. By the way, nice rifle! Thanks for posting the pics!

 

 

 

In any race the degree of work is directly proportional to the ability of the competitor. you never want your equipment to hold you back. It should always be a little bit better than you.

 

 

Truth be told, for some people (like me), it will probably be faster than I am for quite some time, being that I have only been really into SASS for about a year haha. However, you are entirely correct. You could have the best driver in the world in a race car, if the car isn't set right, it will not matter. Same applies for guns too, however I believe someone else stated it earlier, "match ready" really depends on what the individual shooter will accept as match ready.

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Tombstone Tex: The serial number on mine is less than 100. You were probably looking at one of the Winchester short rifles. Here is the text from the Winchester site regarding their model 73 Sporter with 24" bbl:

 

  • RECEIVER – Steel; Color case hardened; Steel loading gate; Rear tang is drilled and tapped for scope mount
  • BARREL – 24” full octagon; Polished blued finish; Full length magazine tube
  • ACTION – Lever-action
  • STOCK – Grade II/III walnut; Straight grip; Classic rifle-style forearm; Steel fore-end cap • FEATURES – Semi-Buckhorn rear sight; Marble’s gold bead front sight; Color case hardened crescent buttplate, lever, fore-end cap, and loading gate • PRODUCTION – Limited to 250 units. Contact your Winchester representative for availability

Here is the link: http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=027C&mid=534217

 

Doesn't anybody believe anyone anymore? Sheesh! You'd think I was trying to prove the verity of global warming or that the pres was a bishop of the Mormon Church.

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Val, no disrespect intended. Ant it sure isn't that I don't trust you, its more that I don't trust how often things are updated. Good call though, it must've been a short rifle. Also, one of those situations where a company says its limited, then goes hogwild on production. I mean it sure is interesting that it is a limited run, and I very much appreciate ya posting about it!

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You'd think I was trying to prove the verity of global warming or that the pres was a bishop of the Mormon Church.

 

It will be a cold day in Hell (irony intended) before either is remotely proved...

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The Uberti is closer to a real Winchester than the current "Winchester" clone.

Please explain more. We can debate this in ranger tent at WR. ;)

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