Blacksheep Ron Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 Looks like you have gotten a free ad for your gunsmithing business. Do not expect cowboys to flock to your door? Better look elsewhere. kid, If you have seen the work performed on these firearms you wouldnt want to use them. I wanted to know the SASS rule and one person gave me the best answer page 3 of the handbook. A local RO told me that is standard to eliminate safties. I have enough work and am not advertising here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I thought Norinco was just an importer. Norinco equals the People's Liberation Army. Norinco is just a cover name for manufacturer, exporter and whatever else is needed to help us grow our trade deficit. The wily Chinese knew that stamping PLA on guns would not fly too well so bingo the Norinco moniker was adopted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Doggle Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 NORINCO: China North Industries Group NORINCO is a state-owned enterprise lawfully incorporated in China and operates according to law. Apart from its legitimate business in conventional weapons and military equipment, the corporation is also actively engaged in the manufacturing and trade of civilian products, and has developed a global trade and information network, and a diversified international market. NORINCO(G) is sometimes referred to as the Ordnance Industry Group. China North Industries Group, NORINCO (G), had over 300 subelements including factories (157 medium to large factories), research institutes, and trading companies. It established over 100 joint ventures and had more than 20 overseas offices and 60 branches. Read on... http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/norinco.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 kid, If you have seen the work performed on these firearms you wouldnt want to use them. I wanted to know the SASS rule and one person gave me the best answer page 3 of the handbook. A local RO told me that is standard to eliminate safties. I have enough work and am not advertising here. Well I'm sure you're a much better gunsmith then those idjuts that do work on our cowboy guns. Now...this "RO" that you spoke with...just what safeties did he/she tell ya are standard eliminations for us idjuts???? Just...curious... Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 NORINCO: China North Industries Group NORINCO is a state-owned enterprise lawfully incorporated in China and operates according to law. Apart from its legitimate business in conventional weapons and military equipment, the corporation is also actively engaged in the manufacturing and trade of civilian products, and has developed a global trade and information network, and a diversified international market. NORINCO(G) is sometimes referred to as the Ordnance Industry Group. China North Industries Group, NORINCO (G), had over 300 subelements including factories (157 medium to large factories), research institutes, and trading companies. It established over 100 joint ventures and had more than 20 overseas offices and 60 branches. Read on... http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/norinco.htm Pretty much correct from what I have been told. Norinco was the chinese government entity that oversaw the exports of the various chinese companies. Generally the communities and the local workers own the factories. Norinco represented the state. In the 2000's Norinco got crossways with the Bush admin. They were caught selling missile tech and parts to Iran. Ever since you don't hear of them. We still get Chinese shotgun here so the the export authority has probably just changed names. IAC was/is a USA based importer. They don't manufacture anything as far as I know. Which company was it made a SxS shotgun with rebounding hammers...PLUS a crossbolt safety...PLUS an "auto" tang safety? Talk about overkill to comply with import restrictions! By the time all of the safeties had been overcome to enable the firearm to function as intended, the clock in the timer had flipped over. The Liberty II was like that. Tang safety, hammer blocks and rebounding hammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I understand disabling the auto and other layer safeties(cross bolt) being there for hunter who carry loaded guns. So removing those to make the gun CAS friendly is ok in my mind because we are not in positions where those would help us. But safeties that keep the gun from firing out of battery should not be removed they can beredesigned( use a lighter spring). Because if you need it and don't have it someone is going to get hurt with the gun pointed in a safe direction because the to is in line with the receiver opening if debrei fires out of it because of an out of battery detonation and nothing with stop it as. It will take the path of least resistance ie the open hole in the receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 all of the out of battery ADs I've seen the lever was no where near closed,,, two things have happened,,, 1, for some reason a round wouldn't fully chamber and the shooter smacked the lever trying to get the round to chamber and the firing pin struck the primer = bang the other is when the ejector has hit the firing pic both had nothing to do with the lever safety.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 all of the out of battery ADs I've seen the lever was no where near closed,,, two things have happened,,, 1, for some reason a round wouldn't fully chamber and the shooter smacked the lever trying to get the round to chamber and the firing pin struck the primer = bang the other is when the ejector has hit the firing pic both had nothing to do with the lever safety.... I have had ONE OOB in my life and it was while shooting my '97 at a speed SG side match at GOA a few years back. Although no-one knew for sure what exactly happened, it appeared that the primer of the shell was struck by the outside extractor while trying to feed and close the action on a round. I don't recall knowing of any safety that could have prevented this OOB AD. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I had two out of battery AD's with my 66 Winchester. Lever safety would have prevented it. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I had two out of battery AD's with my 66 Winchester. Lever safety would have prevented it. Ike You have no way of knowing that for sure. I have a 73 With the lever safety and have had a few OBDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I'll have to agree with Irish Ike. Running guns without a lever safety is just asking for trouble. Would never do it. Running guns without a working lever safety cause, (or allow), most OOBD's. However, I see your argument. Under certain circumstances, OOBD's can happen, even with a working lever safety. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Under certain circumstances, OOBD's can happen, even with a working lever safety That is the gospel truth there! There are ways to fool the existing lever safety due to the shape of the bar so that you can get an OOB firing from a 73 as the lever is open so far that the firing pin impact goes to a little weak but still firing (OOB) to so weak that all can do it slightly dent the primer (kicked out round). If you don't release and stay off the trigger as you are opening the lever, it can be an easily duplicated error. To fix, you have to learn not to outrun your trigger pull! Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I'll have to agree with Irish Ike. Running guns without a lever safety is just asking for trouble. Would never do it. Running guns without a working lever safety cause, (or allow), most OOBD's. However, I see your argument. Under certain circumstances, OOBD's can happen, even with a working lever safety. RBK The 66 has no lever safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Just going to throw something out there for thought. A shooter has an out of battery discharge with a modified safety bearing gun. A bystander is injured. This bystander now decides to sue SASS, the club and the shooter for knowingly and willfully modifying a safety to create a dangerous situation,, for the parent organization for allowing such in their rules. Smart attorney's staff searches for "out of battery discharges" Then they discover this thread in which a large portion of the writers state modifying the safety (safty) is unsafe. The lawyer trots that into court and shows the jury same. Do I need to continue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Just going to throw something out there for thought. A shooter has an out of battery discharge with a modified safety bearing gun. A bystander is injured. This bystander now decides to sue SASS, the club and the shooter for knowingly and willfully modifying a safety to create a dangerous situation,, for the parent organization for allowing such in their rules. Smart attorney's staff searches for "out of battery discharges" Then they discover this thread in which a large portion of the writers state modifying the safety (safty) is unsafe. The lawyer trots that into court and shows the jury same. Do I need to continue? So which out of battery discharges are caused by missing or modified safeties? 97s are the most frequent. They are caused by shooter not getting round into opening far enough to be on carrier and extractor hits firing pin as shooter slams action closed. 66 and 73 out of battery discharges are caused by a round not fully entering chamber and the shooter racking the lever back and forth causing the firing pin to over come it's spring and hit the out of battery round firing pin,etc. 66s do not even come equipped with a safety. Pretty hard to have an out of battery discharge on a double or revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Let me see if I understand this Out Of Battery Discharge correctly: 1. the firearm is loaded 2. a live round is being worked thru the action with the intent of going into the chamber. 3. BANG.....the ammo ignites before the action is closed. Question: Can somebody tell me WHAT SAFETY DEVICE we have on our firearms that 'if engaged' would prevent this? If the action on my Marlin is open or partially open and a round goes off, its not because of the hammer falling and hitting the firing pin... because the hammer IS NOT touching the firing pin anytime my action is open. Now, closing the bolt and having the Extractor (which protrudes out from the bolt face) contact the primer of a 'canted' round can cause an OB, but NO safety could have prevented it. This past summer, TN Tombstone and I (at the ULT) worked on a nice 73, with all the safety functions installed. It was jammed up hard. I told Tombstone to be cautious and keep his fingers out of the action while trying to force the lever to move either up or down. KABOOOOM! We can't prove it but it appeared that the firing pin was protruding enough with sufficient force to ignite the primer, just from a the force of trying to get the action to work alittle. There was NO slamming of the action, no sharp objects involved while pushing on the cartridge to get unstuck, etc..... This was a true OB. How could any safety prevented it? I admit to not knowing anything about the 66 or 73, but I'm curious as to what safeties prevent OB or is most of these actually an AD? EDIT: GCK, it looks like you and I were thinking of the same thing at the same time but you got your thoughts typed out faster. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 OBD's can and do happen from stuck firing pins, that can be caused by dirty or bent firing pins. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purly SASS # 57438 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I have had two out of battery incidents with a 73. The safety has not been removed. Both times the bullet was started in the chamber but fired before the lever was fully closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I have had two out of battery incidents with a 73. The safety has not been removed. Both times the bullet was started in the chamber but fired before the lever was fully closed. Usually caused by trying to cram a round in the chamber that don't wanna go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Just going to throw something out there for thought. A shooter has an out of battery discharge with a modified safety bearing gun. A bystander is injured. This bystander now decides to sue SASS, the club and the shooter for knowingly and willfully modifying a safety to create a dangerous situation,, for the parent organization for allowing such in their rules. Smart attorney's staff searches for "out of battery discharges" Then they discover this thread in which a large portion of the writers state modifying the safety (safty) is unsafe. The lawyer trots that into court and shows the jury same. Do I need to continue? Defending lawyer would have to turn to a more authoritative source, such as the NRA or NSSF firearms safety rules, and pull out the one that goes something like: 3. Don't Rely On Your Gun's "Safety" Treat every gun as though it can fire at any time. The "safety" on any gun is a mechanical device which, like any such device, can become inoperable at the worst possible time. Besides, by mistake, the safety may be "off" when you think it is "on." The safety serves as a supplement to proper gun handling but cannot possibly serve as a substitute for common sense. You should never handle a gun carelessly and assume that the gun won't fire just because the "safety is on." Never touch the trigger on a firearm until you actually intend to shoot. Keep your fingers away from the trigger while loading or unloading. Never pull the trigger on any firearm with the safety on the "safe" position or anywhere in between "safe" and "fire." It is possible that the gun can fire at any time, or even later when you release the safety, without your ever touching the trigger again. Never place the safety in between positions, since half-safe is unsafe. Keep the safety "on" until you are absolutely ready to fire. Regardless of the position of the safety, any blow or jar strong enough to actuate the firing mechanism of a gun can cause it to fire. This can happen even if the trigger is not touched, such as when a gun is dropped. Never rest a loaded gun against any object because there is always the possibility that it will be jarred or slide from its position and fall with sufficient force to discharge. The only time you can be absolutely certain that a gun cannot fire is when the action is open and it is completely empty. Again, never rely on your gun's safety. You and the safe gun handling procedures you have learned are your gun's primary safeties. From NSSF's firearms safety rules at: http://www.nssf.org/safety/basics/ Good luck, and be safe! GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 The absolute best safety you can use for any CAS rifle, especially a 66 or 73 is a case checker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 and not slapping the lever to get it closed!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 and not slapping the lever to get it closed!!!! You mean, like this...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bHdNTd_sMo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 You mean, like this...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bHdNTd_sMo yup,,,, Dunt du that!!!!! Bad mojo!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Om my 66 I pulled the trigger before it was in battery. I was used to my 73 with the lever safety. Running the gun faster than I should with the 66. Both times it bent the lever. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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