John Boy Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Remington STS - 209's Length - 0.2930 Diameter - 0.2395 ... just below rim Winchester - Western - 209's Length - 0.3030 Diameter - 0.2435 ... just below rim So, if your once fired hulls have loose primer pockets, use the Winchesters with the larger diameter And if you have any Remington 57's ... They were used only for old Remington SP cases that were plastic with a fiber "base" wad. About 30+ years old Length - 0.2940 Diameter - 0.2275 ... just below rim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Wonder what the SAAMI specs. are for dia? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 The length of a primer has no significant affect on the fit of a shot shell Primer. The diameter just below the rim, where the primer seats in the case head is the critical dimension. These dimensions are as follows: .240 = Rem. .241 = CCI, Fed, .242 = Nobel Sport, Win, Wolf, .243 = Cheddite, Fiocchi, .244 = Rio. These dimensions are from an article by Tom Ceretto in Trapshooting USA, issue 4, page 50, Nov/Dec 2009 RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheatin Charlie Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 The guys I worked with that shot sporting clays told me that once you use Fiocchi in a hull the primer pocket is too loose to use other primers. But are ok to continue to use Fiocchi primers in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I was in a pinch and bought some Rems a couple years ago, fortunately only 200, had to tear the shells apart because the primer was set too low! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missouri Marshal SASS #50682 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Here is a funny one, I reload the red Federal Top Gun hulls but I can't us Federal primers. They are too small. A lot of the time they will just fall out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nota John, SASS #51089L Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Have had some problems lately with some Win 209's. Primer cup set low inside the primer sleeve, light primer strikes, FTF. Nota John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Charlie, for some reason, international shot shells have are larger diameter than the hulls made in the US. Exception is RIO: Currently, RIO shotshells are sold in more than 70 countries and are regularly used by millions of hunters and shooters all over the world. Kid, thanks for the post ... really covers the water front of sizes by manufacturer Grits, SAAMI Shotshell pdf is 106 pages but in the diagrams or text, I didn't see anything about primers - dig in also if you want to http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/209.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 This is all I can find. http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/gsparesa/media/guns/PrimersandPrimerPocketDimensions.png.html They are call'd '209' because of the dia. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I was in a pinch and bought some Rems a couple years ago, fortunately only 200, had to tear the shells apart because the primer was set too low! Have had some problems lately with some Win 209's. Primer cup set low inside the primer sleeve, light primer strikes, FTF OK, I'll make it a tri-fecta! I've got a couple of (1000 count) cases of Fed209A primers that have the primer set too low in the battery cup. These were made about 3 years ago. (BTW, Federal did not take my letter describing the problem to heart and offer to make it right.) It's worth taking a look at ANY batch of shotshell primers that you purchase to check that the primer is seated right in the battery cup (the outer shell). If it is "too" low, expect that your firing pin will at the worst possible time in a match fail to set off the shell. A brand that seems to make it very easy to visually check primer cups is Cheddite, which I have switched to for most of my loading. The cups are made with a very large flat, rather than the rounded surface that lots of our American brand primers have. Quite easy to check that the cup surface is flush with the finished loaded round. And, Cheddites are slightly oversize diameter, so they fit loose primer pockets fine. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cent Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Disorderly Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Hmmm...I know shotgun recipe's are very specific...shot, wad and hull...do they specify primer too? I see it in pistol and rifle but use what I can find without much concern (I chrono all loads anyway). But if primers are different sizes then maybe one needs to use that specific primer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Hmmm...I know shotgun recipe's are very specific...shot, wad and hull...do they specify primer too? I see it in pistol and rifle but use what I can find without much concern (I chrono all loads anyway). But if primers are different sizes then maybe one needs to use that specific primer? Yes, a specific primer is usually specified for any given load in loading manuals. Different shotshell primers can dramatically affect pressures and most manuals will caution not to substitute different primers for the one specified for any given load. Having said that, most of us loading shotshells for CAS are downloading and any increase in pressure from switching primers will not be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I've been loading BP shotgun shells in the past year. I've used any hull that came to me free. I used Winchester 209 to load all of them. I found the Winchester primers would not fit tight in RIO hulls. I could push them in with finger pressure and pull them out if I could get my finger nail under it. I also found if a hull was reloaded a couple of times, it was likely to have the primer too deep. For any rounds I loaded for a match, I used once fired hulls and still checked primer seating depth after the priming stage to see if was set too deep. Any over .010 deep, I'd recover the primer and toss the hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I was in a pinch and bought some Rems a couple years ago, fortunately only 200, had to tear the shells apart because the primer was set too low! Yep, when I first started reloading shotshells I picked up some Rems locally...........way to many failures to go bang Since then I've stuck with Win without a problem. Don't know what all those numbers mean, but..........I also shoot CFDA with 209 primers in a special 45 Colt case, RIO is the best for not getting hung up on the recoil shield Not that this has anything to do with this thread Good Luck Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 When loading Shot Shells to low velocities, (usually lower than the books show), it's prudent to use a hot primer in order to get a good clean powder burn. Low velocities means lite powder drops and low chamber pressures. Therefore using the hot primers will not cause excessive pressures, but will indeed promote better and cleaner powder burns. Therefore I use nothing but Federal 209A primers in all my CAS loads. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Interesting reference showing "spec" differences between American and European shotgun primer diameters, and various manufacturers of the straight-wall hulls commonly found. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=388303 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Thanks Joe for the link - tucked it away for reference. KId, got your reference squirreled away too Never Know When a Primer Discussion Might Come Up at a Social Gathering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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