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1897 Chamber Length ?


Clemsum

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I have a 1897 type E (830xxx) made in 1931 per the SN chart on Marauder's web site.

It has a 28" modified choke barrel but does not have the chamber length indicated on the barrel. I think this would indicate a 2 1/2" chamber. Is this correct and would it be worthwhile to have the chamber lengthened?

 

Were 2 3/4" chambers ever standard on '97s and if so when was the change made?

 

Clemsum

 

 

 

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Well, sorta...

 

All 97's have 2 3/4 inch chambers - BUT NOT modern 2 3/4inch chambers.

 

The chambers were made when shotgun shells all used a roll crimp which resulted in a slightly shorter shell than modern 2 3/4 inch shells.

 

So All of the chambers are just a little short - and the lengths do vary, but all are short.

 

Are they safe with modern shells? Yes, because the shell can still open up into the beginning of the forcing cone. But it probably does slightly increase the pressure compared to having a standard, modern length chamber.

 

Some of the sold frame 97's have a lot thinner barrels than the other 97s so some folks do not recommend lengthening the chamber, just in case.

 

But for all the others, there is plenty of metal to use the one-piece chamber and forcing cone cutter. These lengthen the forcing cone from the old 1/2 inch to a much kinder 1 1/2 inch forcing cone.

 

Many folks say they can tell a lot of difference in the felt recoil when they lengthen the chamber and forcing cone.

 

The tools are not expensive, but if you only have one or 2 guns, it is probably better to have the work done as it is not an expensive operation.

 

Or ask around at your gun club as you may find a member with the tools to do the job. Just don't force anything, go slow and measure often. I'm more a mechanic than a gunsmith but even I could do it!

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Marauder is a handy man to have around!!..my rule of thumb is if it don't say 2-3/4 it aint GW

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A reamer can be had for around $100.00. It can be operated with a ratchet. Need to know how to run a reamer. Need cutting oil. Vise. I have solid frames and they have had their forcing cones lengthened. Need to polish afterwards.

 

Model 12s in the late 20s were manufactured with 2 /34" chambers. The 1897 chamber thing has been argued all over and I have heard of more that say what Marauder said. Kinda silly to produce M12s chambered for the modern round and not the '87.

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One wonders why they didn't mark the length on the guns back then. I am restoring a couple of old doubles and neither are even marked with gauge. No mention of case length or even choke.

 

I found a "C" series 97 takedown in great condition. In asking the same question of the OP, I got all kinds of answers. I was still under the opinion that the chamber and forcing cone were too short for modern star crimped shells. I was also told by a professional gunsmith that he wouldn't recut the forcing cone because it would make the barrel too weak. I continued asking until I found a cowboy gunsmith that did the chamber and cone cut for $20.

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Or in the alternative just use two and a half inch shells made to use in old doubles.

 

Several companies offer them. I am especially partial to the B&P sub sound

I strongly advise against that. While your 97' make operate correctly there are a bunch in this sport being used that are not. I've seen a few major out of battery discharges on 97's while using 2 1/2". Not pretty especially if you are a left hander.

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Before the SASS Wire, we were on the CAS-L mail list.

 

We had reports of almost 50 97's from around the nation and the readings varied slightly in the chamber length, but none were equal to the modern shells.

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I strongly advise against that. While your 97' make operate correctly there are a bunch in this sport being used that are not. I've seen a few major out of battery discharges on 97's while using 2 1/2". Not pretty especially if you are a left hander.

What would make a 2-1/2" shell be prone to firing out of battery?

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The shell is short and can do a side ways slip or skew as it is attempting to enter the chamber, the bolt right hand extractor hits the shell primer causing a pre-mature shell discharge. Thus an out of battery discharge, also known as an OBD.

 

The OBD can also be caused by the removal on the safety flag, which engaged by the bolt rises to protect the shell from skewing and hitting the extractor.

Never remove the safety flag from a 1897, it is there for your protection and safety.

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WC, maybe. A 2 1/2 can skew just enough even with the flag intact. Sometimes the flag can stick. The scoop however, is multi fold, based on 16+ years as a CAS gun plumber.

The short chamber does not allow the modern plastic hull to open fully, which acts as an obstruction in the bore. It raises chamber pressure and thus generates increased felt recoil.

The short forcing cone in a stock barrel also raises chamber pressure must a smidge and increases felt recoil.

Re-cutting the chamber to a modern 2 3/4 dimension and extending the forcing cone R elieves the excess chamber pressure and reduces felt recoil. You will. notice the reduction in recoil the very next time you shoot the gun. It is well worth the cost to have it done.

 

Coffinmaker

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I strongly advise against that. While your 97' make operate correctly there are a bunch in this sport being used that are not. I've seen a few major out of battery discharges on 97's while using 2 1/2". Not pretty especially if you are a left hander.

 

 

Well I only use trombone guns in WBAS. Mostly use Chinese 97s and 93/97s. Sometimes originals. None will take 6 in the mag so I load 5 AA featherlites and one of the short B&Ps. Been doing it for years, never a problem. Maybe I am just lucky which I usually ain't.

 

Problem would be moot if we just loaded 5 in the mag as it was designed by JMB to take but NOOO we have to do the 6 round load for some reason I cannot comprehend. Burns my biscuits

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The 1897 Winchester is not a Safe Shotgun for our Sport. I am very surprised it has lasted this long. I started with a 97 and have been using a SXS for some time now.

As a Left Hand Shooter that ejection port is very close to my Left Eye and face. With a possible OBD the Right Hander has a bit more protection.

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