Winchester 1897 ejection

[Black Mike]

I previously posted looking for advice on how to resolve ejection issue on one of my 1897's. I got lots of good suggestions and maybe the best advice to get rid of it and go double.

 

Anyway after playing with left and right extractors and ejector springs I still could not match the ejection I got with my other 97's.

 

My latest focus was on the little ejector pin that is drifted into the left side of the receiver.

 

The original measured 1.85 mm on front side of pin and 1.93 mm on the back side.

 

The new one measured 2.10 mm on both sides. Doesn't seem like a big difference.

 

Put the pin in and it seems like I the shells are ejecting a good three feet.

 

I don't know if I have solved the problem yet, will have to take the shotgun up to the skeet field for a test run. I'm probably dreaming.

 

Have any other 97 shooters found the same with this small piece?

[Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388]

Actually, even though it is a "small piece", it is a very important and often overlooked part when rebuilding and/or trouble shooting a 97. Take it out and see how it ejects. The 97 extraction and ejection function is a "balancing act" between the extractors till the shell hits the ejector spring and then the ejector. As the left extractor passes the ejector, it releases the tension on the shells rim and at the same time the ejector spring puts tension on the back of the shell when it hits the ejector and throws the shell out to the right along with the right extractor pulling on it. Didn't see your first post, but how far do you want or expect the shell to be thrown ?

[Black Mike]

I had an action job done on this 97. When I first got it back I had an issue with the bolt not traveling all the way back. It would hang up about 1/4 inch or so before the end every other shot. I had this fixed by a good smith and it seemed fine for a year or so. I shot about a dozen SASS events this year. Over time the ejection got weaker and weaker until every other shell or so would barely release and stay in the breach even when slamming it as hard as I could. It looks like it is working at an acceptable level now. I only used three feet as a comparison to my other 97's. I have two earlier ones that eject very well with little effort.

 

I have replaced a number of ejection springs and left hand extractors on my 97's as needed and always seemed a simple fix. This one had me scratching my head.

 

Thanks for your response.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Look for a broken 'leg' on the left side extractor. Very common-

Also ck to be sure the ejector tip is still slightly angled towards the chamber.

Many of the aftermarket ejectors are not tempered correctly and un-fold back towards the bolt's face.

OLG

[Black Mike]

Thanks OLG. Had to replace a broken leg left extractor this season. Learning all the time. Hey, if your not shooting your not gonna break stuff. I also learned from a diagram posted here how to hone the ejector tip to help ejection. A national champion SASS shooter told me getting some 97's tuned is more black magic than logic sometimes. I now know what he meant.

 

At least I can pull the carrier and bolt and replace right and left extractors and ejector spring and reassemble in five minutes or less as I had plenty of practice on this shotgun.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

97's are like 1911's-What doesn't work in one, may work in another.

Avoid the cheap ejectors-They are NOT made of the heat-treated spring steel like the originals are.

Also, look for the longest 'finger'(what touches the case)you can find. You want the edge of 'finger' to just clear the notch in the bolt and no shorter. Additionally, keep the full width flat on the 'finger' where it rides in the bolt's notch.

OLG

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Thanks OLG. Had to replace a broken leg left extractor this season. Learning all the time. Hey, if your not shooting your not gonna break stuff. I also learned from a diagram posted here how to hone the ejector tip to help ejection. A national champion SASS shooter told me getting some 97's tuned is more black magic than logic sometimes. I now know what he meant.

 

At least I can pull the carrier and bolt and replace right and left extractors and ejector spring and reassemble in five minutes or less as I had plenty of practice on this shotgun.

 

Do you have that link for honing the ejector tip?

[Southpaw Gringo, SASS # 74217]

OLG is correct about cheaply made ejectors. There are cheaply made left extractors out there also. Usually the ones from Numrich Gun Parts. Those things are way out of spec! I learned the hard way on those. Parts from places like The Smith Shop and Cowboys And Indians are good to go. The problem you had on your 97 when the bolt was not opening all the way might have been with the left hand extractor. It may have been replaced and the new one had too much of a sharp "hook" on the tip of it. To much and it wont release the shell when it bumps the ejector. Most parts like the extractor and ejector are made with a little more material at hooks and tips so you can fine tune them to the gun. Having a troublesome 97 and working on it is a good way of learning how the parts all work together. Been there! Done that! Hope you figured yours out.....

[Black Mike]

Trying to find link. Know I saved it somewhere. Here is photo. Obviously exaggerated.

 

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Is the one on the left the "before?"

[Black Mike]

Left side is before. Right after. I just worked a little on the sharp right angle edge a bit.

[Cat Brules]

I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS but some replies are a bit confusing because terminology seems interchanged to me.

To clarify terminology:

 

-- the extractors are are in the bolt.

 

-- the ejector "set" is a three-part sub-group consisting of:

...... Ejector pin

...... Ejector spring (THIS is the defacto ejector)

...... Ejector pin screw

These parts are installed on/in the receiver.

These parts, respectively, are P/N's 76, 52, & 53 on the most common parts diagram.

 

Part 76, the ejector pin, can "become lost in the shuffle" because it's tiny and is installed INSIDE the receiver. It can fall out unnoticed and be lost or it can be gummed up and be glued in the receiver. IT MAY ALSO be Installed in there upside down (will still do its job albeit not perfectly). The drawing of this little part and it's installed location in the receiver is poorly represented on the common diagram.

 

ALSO, the modern aftermarket left side extractor is often made too thick and may require fitting to work properly. YES, as stated elsewhere, there should be only a SLIGHT positive angle on the left sie extractor hook.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Cat-It would be good to have a link to the drawing you speak of.

OLG

[Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388]

Probably this one............

 

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/97parts.htm

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

The test I do is to slip a dummy shell on the bolt after assembly. You should be able to pull the shell off the left extractor using a little force. The shell should be solidly held in place if you try two pull the shell off of the right extractor. You should not be able to shake the shell off without great effort. If the bolt passes these three tests the extractors are configured correctly.

 

Every left extractor I've ever replaced needed fitting. They are always too thick. A little time with a stone and they fit fine.

[Cat Brules]

Cat-It would be good to have a link to the drawing you speak of.

OLG

Sorry, I keep thinking ever'one's on the same page as me...a bad habit of mine, since I sometimes start at the back of the book!!! :-)

 

Lessee here..... Here is a copy of it I found on (looks like a SASS club's website) the Internet.

 

http://www.rucascowboys.com/win97expodedview.htm

 

You've probably seen this before.

Cat Brules

[Cat Brules]

BTWay..... Maurader is a good, sound resource.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

THX!

OLG

[Lil Dead Drewzter]

Good Thread. After I had to buy a new one, a good one, I noticed that it was a little tight and sharp hooked. I thought I had fitted it enough but It was not ejecting smoothly or consistently in a match. Took it home and tested with dummy rounds. It was hanging on to the shells and it was gouging the rim. I used the test above in post 15 and it failed. Took it out and filed it down thinner so it could move more easily in its groove. Also smoothed the hook a bit. Now it throws em right out every time.

[Coyote Cap, SASS Life #14184]

I don't want to take these secrets to my grave - - - so listen up, so I don't have to post this answer over and over.

 

Stop playing around with the carrier still in the gun !!! I mean it - - - stop doing that !

 

The art of playing a balancing act of left and right extractors, eject and ejector stop block is an art. (no better description)!

 

THIS IS THE SECRET !!

 

Take the carrier out, put the slide and mag tube back on, then and only then, test the ejection.

 

The timing of the drop of the carrier can disrupt a REALLY good ejection. It is either wear at the carrier ramps, or poor manufacturing !

 

What do I consider a really good ejection of a spent hull - - - a minimum of ten feet, straight out the side.

If the hull spins counterclockwise, it struck the front of the frame on exit. The cause - - right extractor too loose. Left extractor too tight.

 

If the hull spins around inside the frame (facing backwards and not exiting) - - the cause is a broken or defective left extractor.

 

If the hull spins clockwise on exiting the frame, - - - the cause is the right extractor is too tight and the left extractor too loose.

 

If the hull flys out straight, but only a few feet - - - the cause is a week ejector spring - - - try a CB-97 ejector, that usually cures it also.

 

If the hull flys out straight for a good ten feet - - - you got it !!!! Don't let anybody touch what you have done !

 

2nd secret - - -

 

Put the carrier back into the gun - - - if the hull still flys out straight for that ten feet - - - you have won the battle !

 

If the hull just barely clears the frame - - - the cause is carrier drop timing - - - look at the ramps, you will see two dents in them.

 

The carrier is failing to drop out of the way and the rim of the hull is being hooked upon exiting the frame.

 

Metal needs to be added to the left and right ramps - - - that is also an art - - - I'm not kidding either !

 

If I suddenly cash in my chips - - - direct your questions to "Outlaw Gambler" (I trained him) !

 

Enough said - - - "Coyote Cap"

Founders Ranch Platinum Member

SASS Life 14184