Dumb question on Lee Factory Crimp die.

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

Is it possible to have the floating carbide sizer ring installed upside down? Cannot find any info online anywhere. Thanks

[Jackson Rose, SASS #45478]

Yes, don't ask how I know. Look inside the ring and you can see the crimping shoulder. when you do you will figure it out.

[John Boy]

This will give you an idea which way the collet goes in the body of the die

 

 

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

Thanks guys, had it right.

[John Henry Quick]

I'll add another dumb question (yours really wasn't dumb):

 

I have a Lee Factory Crimp Die for .44 WCF (.44-40) and instead of a nice, rounded roll crimp like one would expect, it produces what looks more like a ring stamped into the end of the case. It appears to do the job, but I fear that it may cause casemouth splits earlier than one would normally expect. Having said that, I've got 5 or 6 reloads out of my cases so far without issue. I understand that the .44 WCF is different than straight-walled cases and the die itself is clearly different than the other crimping dies I own. Is this normal ?

[Wagon Box Willy]

JohnHenry, I get the same thing on my 45 colt if I set it too tight, I just back it off from there until I get a normal crimp.

[John Henry Quick]

JohnHenry, I get the same thing on my 45 colt if I set it too tight, I just back it off from there until I get a normal crimp.

 

I tried that. I have it set to crimp just deeply enough that I can't feel the edge of the casemouth when I run my fingertip over it. My loads are packed tight with powder ( ), so I'm not worried about the bullet getting pushed in - I just don't want an edge sticking out that might hang up on anything or slow things down.

[Wagon Box Willy]

I load Big Lube J/P-45 which have a crimp groove so no worries about the case mouth sticking out.

[Griff]

I'll add another dumb question (yours really wasn't dumb):

 

I have a Lee Factory Crimp Die for .44 WCF (.44-40) and instead of a nice, rounded roll crimp like one would expect, it produces what looks more like a ring stamped into the end of the case. It appears to do the job, but I fear that it may cause casemouth splits earlier than one would normally expect. Having said that, I've got 5 or 6 reloads out of my cases so far without issue. I understand that the .44 WCF is different than straight-walled cases and the die itself is clearly different than the other crimping dies I own. Is this normal ?

 

A Lee Factory Crimp Die by its very design will NOT give a nice smooth roll crimp. The gaps in the collet will always leave little "fingers" of raised brass. If you want a smooth roll crimp, use a bullet with a cannelure and a Roll Crimp die. That does however, necessitate keeping your brass trimmed to length and properly adjusting the die.

[Wagon Box Willy]

Griff, I don't think the pistol FCD's have a collet, just a one piece carbide sizer that also crimps.

[Noz]

The pistol dies do have a collet.

 

I have gone away from the FCD because I felt like I was losing too many cases (mainly in 32-20 but more lately in the 44-40) due to the crimps in the case mouth splitting.

 

I now use the seating/crimping die and run the loaded case just far enough into the sizing die to remove any bulge that may occur. It takes some delicate adjustment to keep the case mouth from bumping the forward edge of the crimp groove in the bullet.

[Wagon Box Willy]

So my definition of a collet is split with 3 or 4 segments like this and forms the crimp by compression. Now my definition may be wrong but that was what I was referring to

 

Having said that neither my 45 colt or 45acp FCD's have a split collet. They have a one piece ring pictured below.

 

 

And the crimp is made by the internal machining which the case is forced into, the ring is not compressed. Both pictures are from the Lee 45 colt FCD

 

[Yusta B.]

Yes, the collet dies are for bottleneck cases. ie 32-20, 44-40, etc

[Rio Brazos Kid]

I'll add another dumb question (yours really wasn't dumb):

 

I have a Lee Factory Crimp Die for .44 WCF (.44-40) and instead of a nice, rounded roll crimp like one would expect, it produces what looks more like a ring stamped into the end of the case. It appears to do the job, but I fear that it may cause casemouth splits earlier than one would normally expect. Having said that, I've got 5 or 6 reloads out of my cases so far without issue. I understand that the .44 WCF is different than straight-walled cases and the die itself is clearly different than the other crimping dies I own. Is this normal ?

John,

What they are not telling you, and apparently you are not aware of, the LEE Factory Crimp die for the 44WCF, (which is a slightly bottleneck cartridge, is a completely different type of die than the LEE Carbide Factory Crimp die, which is made for straight sided Pistol cartridges.

 

The Factory Crimp die for the 44WCF is a collet type die. It has NO resizing ring as does the Carbide Factory Crimp die, made for straight sided Pistol cases.

 

The NORMAL crimp is NOT a roll crimp, but in fact is effected by the collet squeezing the case mouth into the crimp groove. No vertical pressure is applied to the case. All pressure comes from the side, pressing (what you are calling a ring), the neck of the case mouth into the crimp groove.

 

This die does NOT in any way, provide a roll crimp. However the crimp it performs is excellent, and will not ever crush the case at the bottle neck, as will easily happen with a roll crimp. Just adjust it to effect a crimp deep enough to hold the bullet from possible movement. That is how that particular crimp die works. Excellent crimp die for those very thin bottle neck cases.

 

RBK

[John Henry Quick]

John,

What they are not telling you, and apparently you are not aware of, the LEE Factory Crimp die for the 44WCF, (which is a slightly bottleneck cartridge, is a completely different type of die than the LEE Carbide Factory Crimp die, which is made for straight sided Pistol cartridges.

 

The Factory Crimp die for the 44WCF is a collet type die. It has NO resizing ring as does the Carbide Factory Crimp die, made for straight sided Pistol cases.

 

The NORMAL crimp is NOT a roll crimp, but in fact is effected by the collet squeezing the case mouth into the crimp groove. No vertical pressure is applied to the case. All pressure comes from the side, pressing (what you are calling a ring), the neck of the case mouth into the crimp groove.

 

This die does NOT in any way, provide a roll crimp. However the crimp it performs is excellent, and will not ever crush the case at the bottle neck, as will easily happen with a roll crimp. Just adjust it to effect a crimp deep enough to hold the bullet from possible movement. That is how that particular crimp die works. Excellent crimp die for those very thin bottle neck cases.

 

RBK

 

Thanks! BTW, I see you're from Alvin. I lived in Clear Lake City on El Camino Real many years ago...

[Noz]

My apologies. My dies are 44-40 and 32-20 and upon reflection they are considered rifle cases.

[Bramble Mountain Buzzard]

I spend a couple dollars more and get the Redding factory crimp when possible. Have never been sorry for that decision.

[Guest Cactus Cris SASS#2790]

For what it's worth- I have been using the Redding crimp die for years. Load only BP and very few smokeless ( for friend for WR ) and have never had problems. I also use the Dillon 44 mag seating die. Cast Big Lube bullets or use the Sundance 44-40 200 gr for APP or smokeless. Not sure Sundance is still in business as I have not shot CAS for 2 yrs. and needed bullets.

[John Henry Quick]

For what it's worth- I have been using the Redding crimp die for years. Load only BP and very few smokeless ( for friend for WR ) and have never had problems. I also use the Dillon 44 mag seating die. Cast Big Lube bullets or use the Sundance 44-40 200 gr for APP or smokeless. Not sure Sundance is still in business as I have not shot CAS for 2 yrs. and needed bullets.

 

I still prefer the Big Lube's from Springfield Slim when I shoot the real thing, but I've started using Ringer's Bullets with APP with great results.

[Rio Brazos Kid]

I spend a couple dollars more and get the Redding factory crimp when possible. Have never been sorry for that decision.

 

Funny this comes up on this thread. I have used the Redding Profile Crimp die for many years. In my experience it is far superior to the LEE dies. I have recommended it on this forum several times, but never get any feedback about it.

 

Where ever, and for the applicable calibers, the Redding die is absolutely the way to go. All that being said, for use on bottle neck rifle calibers, the LEE Factory Crimp die is unbeatable.

 

RBK

[Nickel City Dude]

I had a problem with my 44-40 rounds once. One of the bullets telescoped into the casing when using my 1873 Carbine and stopped me dead. I lost 30 seconds on one stage because of it. I then got the Lee Factory Crimp Die and haven’t had any problems since. I didn’t know that anyone other than Lee made a factory crimp die.

[John Boy]

A Lee Factory Crimp Die by its very design will NOT give a nice smooth roll crimp.

Griff, I reload 454190's on the Dillon 550B with the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. The Lee die is set to produce a nice rounded roll crimp on the ogive. In fact, this is one of the items I check before the reloads go into the box to insure when the rifle carrier lifts the round to the chamber - it does not hang up at the mouth of the chamber

[Rio Brazos Kid]

Griff, I reload 454190's on the Dillon 550B with the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. The Lee die is set to produce a nice rounded roll crimp on the ogive. In fact, this is one of the items I check before the reloads go into the box to insure when the rifle carrier lifts the round to the chamber - it does not hang up at the mouth of the chamber

 

John Boy,

This is quite possible with the 45 cal rounds. However the 44-40 die is a completely different design, and will NOT leave any sort of roll crimp what so ever. Two completely different design dies. A Redding Profile crimp die will leave a roll crimp, but the LEE will not.

 

RBK