Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 …and why? I went from .45 to .44-40 about 7 years ago because I switched to BP. Lately, I've been thinking' about shooting more smokeless. (less money, easier loading etc) I know, I know (Soot Lords don't start on me)……just curious as to why you shoot this caliber in smokeless?? I'll be doing it because all my CAS guns are .44-40 and I love this caliber, BP or smokeless. What say you?? Rye
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 As you said, easier loading, less money and, also, easier to clean brass and guns. Recoil is a little different but, if you don't use full house loads, the recoil is fine.
Yul Lose Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I shoot 44-40 smokeless because I have Pedersoli Lightning rifles and I don't get the blowback that I did with .45 Colt. I have a 73 and a couple of old Vaqueros and 2 colts in .45 that I rarely shoot. In my experience Lightnings don't perform well with a lot of blowback.
Tyrel Cody Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 and why? I went from .45 to .44-40 about 7 years ago because I switched to BP. Lately, I've been thinking' about shooting more smokeless. (less money, easier loading etc) I know, I know (Soot Lords don't start on me)just curious as to why you shoot this caliber in smokeless?? I'll be doing it because all my CAS guns are .44-40 and I love this caliber, BP or smokeless. What say you?? Rye Don't do it Not that much easier to load, not much cheaper(if you can find smokeless), not nearly as much fun! But I will say that when I shoot the long range side matches I will use smokeless so I don't have to use a blow tube or swab the bore. MUST have a good crimp if your gonna use smokeless.
G W Wade Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 not worthy enough to shoot the holy black. but found a great deal on 73 carbine in 44/40 to replace 92 rossi 44 mag for shooting wild bunch. absolutely love that carbine, came in old west finish (we think cause nobody up here has ever seen another) which makes a real nice looking rifle IMHO regards GW
Beartrap SASS#57175 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Only shoot BP in my 44-40 main match '73s, but have got another that's dedicated to shooting smokeless for Wild Bunch matches. I don't mix 'em up cause I don't want to upset any of 'em! (: Those pretty little cartridges work just as well eliminating blow by with smokeless and keep the lifter and internals really clean. 44WCF RULES!!!!!!!
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 13, 2014 Author Posted November 13, 2014 Don't do it Not that much easier to load, not much cheaper(if you can find smokeless), not nearly as much fun! But I will say that when I shoot the long range side matches I will use smokeless so I don't have to use a blow tube or swab the bore. MUST have a good crimp if your gonna use smokeless. Not much cheaper? Tyrel, I have to pleasantly disagree, between buying SPG lubed bullets, loading full house loads and shotgun, I figured it costs me at least 12-15 dollars more PER shoot! At 4 shoots a month that adds up, I'm not a rich man not a poor man either but just being frugal!! Plus the cleaning factor and extra time to reload is always worth something, heck this all cuts into my TV time!!!
Tyrel Cody Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Not much cheaper? Tyrel, I have to pleasantly disagree, between buying SPG lubed bullets, loading full house loads and shotgun, I figured it costs me at least 12-15 dollars more PER shoot! At 4 shoots a month that adds up, I'm not a rich man not a poor man either but just being frugal!! Plus the cleaning factor and extra time to reload is always worth something, heck this all cuts into my TV time!!! Fair enough. I'm probably saving some by using regular lubed bullets and a bit lighter load in the shotgun. Do you bulk order BP?
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 13, 2014 Author Posted November 13, 2014 Yep, a case costs me $325.00 approx from Powder Inc. and one case is not enough for the whole year. 2 pounds of smokeless should be more than enough including shotgun. Bullets are roughly 5 -6 cents more each. This adds up like I said I go to 4 shoots a month from Apr-Nov and throw a few 3 dayers in there too!! When I really hate cleaning is when I go to an out of town shoot. Everyone is chillin' or takin a shower and I'm cleaning my guns!!! That really kinda sucks! But to stick to the OP, I really love this old caliber, 44WCF is waaaay cool! Rye
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Rye, Smokeless will not work in 44-40. Sorry CR
George Rodgers Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Clean cases, clean rifle action, easy to load up to 0.429" bullets. I like trailboss, tight group, clays, hp-38 in smokeless loads.
River Jordan, SASS 18742 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 …and why? I went from .45 to .44-40 about 7 years ago because I switched to BP. Lately, I've been thinking' about shooting more smokeless. (less money, easier loading etc) I know, I know (Soot Lords don't start on me)……just curious as to why you shoot this caliber in smokeless?? I'll be doing it because all my CAS guns are .44-40 and I love this caliber, BP or smokeless. What say you?? Rye ..because Roy sang about his 44---not his 45
Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I shot smokeless 44-40 for a few years in classic. My powder of choice was clays. I hope it returns before much longer. I've been using app recently and find it is much easier than the true black. I still use Goex in the C&B though. I don't clean between two day matches. Although your mileage may differ.
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Howdy I used to shoot 44-40 Smokeless when I first started in CAS. The first rifle I used was a nice original Winchester Model 1892, made in 1894. This rifle is also responsible for me turning my nose up at rifles chambered for 45 Colt. Anyhoo, I used to shoot it with Smokeless until the Black Powder bug bit me and bit me bad. I used to load with Unique and a 200 grain bullet. Was it easier than shooting real Black Powder? Not much.
Charlie Whiskers Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I shoot mostly 38's now, but a few times a year I dig out my 44-40's. That's what I started with when I 1st started shoot CAS I had a 66 and 73 along with a 75 Remington and an OMV. I didn't reload then and was buying cases of either Winchester or Ultramax cowboys loads depending on which was less money at that time. I have an FFL so I was able to buy it at dealer cost. When it got up to the high 20's per box, I decided it was time to switch. Went to 38's and was buying factory reloads until the price for 1000 rounds got up to around $140. Bought my 550 then and been reloading for both since. I use Titegroup in both. I still like the 44-40 because it is a cleaner cartridge to shoot, but I shoot enough places now that its just cheaper to load for the 38's. I average around 5-6000 rounds a year. To some that's not many and a lot will go through that many just practicing. I'm not one to practice. Every shoot I go to is a practice.
Cheatin' Chamberlin Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 After trying BP. Smokeless just lost all of its appeal to me. If you are looking to reduce cost and some clean up time. Try using APP. You can use standard lube bullets. Clean up is easy. Reduce your loads so your powder consumption is less. But on the flip side I do use my Winchester 44/40 in Wild Bunch. I use Unique with a 200 grn RNFP. No blow by what so ever. It is a great cartridge no matter if you use smokeless or Black powder. Cheatin'
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 13, 2014 Author Posted November 13, 2014 I've tried APP and don't care for it, if I can't have the boom and flames then I may as well shoot smokeless.
Nickel City Dude Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I am relatively new to SASS and when I started I came from the N-SSA where all we shoot is black powder. I had an 1860 Henry in 44-40 and was shooting BP out of it with N-SSA so when I went to buy revolvers I looked for 44-40 ones. What I realized real fast is that after shooting 3 close pistol targets all the smoke from BP made it difficult to fine the next target. At this point I decided to change to smokeless powder. I had some Alliant Promo handy from loading for Skeet and called Alliant and got a recipe for the Promo in my 44-40. At about the same time I lucked into a deal for a like new Uberti 1873 carbine also in 44-40. At our local matches there isn’t any extra points given for BP and clean up is much easier with Promo than it was with BP. Black powder does have some romance attached to it but my scores have improved and I spend less time with cleanup. Just my two cents.
Cheatin' Chamberlin Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I've tried APP and don't care for it, if I can't have the boom and flames then I may as well shoot smokeless. The boom and flames do add to the fun!!!!!! Cheatin'
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I've tried APP and don't care for it, if I can't have the boom and flames then I may as well shoot smokeless. Same here. Plus, it smells better CR
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 What I realized real fast is that after shooting 3 close pistol targets all the smoke from BP made it difficult to fine the next target. It ain't supposed to be easy. From the handbook: "It is expected the blackpowder competitor shall contend with smoke obscured targets." By the way, guess who wrote that? At our local matches there isn’t any extra points given for BP and clean up is much easier with Promo than it was with BP. Nobody gets extra points for shooting Black Powder, except the satisfaction that comes with it. Black powder does have some romance attached to it but my scores have improved and I spend less time with cleanup There are more important things than shooting fast.
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 13, 2014 Author Posted November 13, 2014 I just reset my Dillon 550 to smokeless, using Tite-Group right now. I forgot how easy it was to load on the 550 with smokeless. I didn't use the powder measure for BP, I hand dip and it takes forever. I just may like this smokey-less stuff after all!!
Tyrel Cody Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I just reset my Dillon 550 to smokeless, using Tite-Group right now. I forgot how easy it was to load on the 550 with smokeless. I didn't use the powder measure for BP, I hand dip and it takes forever. I just may like this smokey-less stuff after all!! I think I may need to call dawg and have an intervention
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I think I may need to call dawg and have an intervention Road Trip! We gotta git hiz mind right agin CR
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I might not go that far, but the man does need some help . A few matches of breathing fresh air should help clear his mind
jrswanson1 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I have to use smokeless for one match a month as it's in an indoor range, so no BP allowed. If I can afford to attend, I will go to the last outdoor match of the year with my BP 44-40 and 32-20 rounds. Still haven't gotten the equipment for BP shells yet.
Cheatin Charlie Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 "When I really hate cleaning is when I go to an out of town shoot. Everyone is chillin' or takin a shower and I'm cleaning my guns!!! That really kinda sucks!" You need to hang out with a better class of people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Rye, Smokeless will not work in 44-40. Sorry CR If you check on page 468 of the Western Version you will also find it is against the rules 37c :-{
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 14, 2014 Author Posted November 14, 2014 If you check on page 468 of the Western Version you will also find it is against the rules 37c :-{ Actually on page 527 of the Western Version the rule has been modified 1894S, was added to allow smokeless so the bad guys can't see where yer shooting' from! Also see Arizona Rangers (Sgt. J.T. Rye Miles) for historical accuracy on the new smokeless ammunition.
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Actually on page 527 of the Western Version the rule has been modified 1894S, was added to allow smokeless so the bad guys can't see where yer shooting' from! Also see Arizona Rangers (Sgt. J.T. Rye Miles) for historical accuracy on the new smokeless ammunition. Did you really think you could announce this and not take a little grief? Save a little BP so you can join in the fun from time to time. CR
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 14, 2014 Author Posted November 14, 2014 I'm not going ALL smokeless, so I'll be sure to have some BP loaded if I'm gonna shoot with you!!
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 I'm not going ALL smokeless, so I'll be sure to have some BP loaded if I'm gonna shoot with you!! Well, I'll be back in Ohio next year for the state BP match (with a shotgun that works), but maybe the IBPG will work out? CR
Tyrel Cody Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 But all your guns are seasoned with FFg. You'll have to buy all new guns or risk making your old ones angry.
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 14, 2014 Author Posted November 14, 2014 But all your guns are seasoned with FFg. You'll have to buy all new guns or risk making your old ones angry. Cool I get to buy all new guns???
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