LARGE, CLOSE TARGETS?

[Wyatt]

This topic always reminds me of the Three Bears

 

Papa Bear likes them too far

 

Mama Bear likes them too small

 

Baby Bear likes them juuuuuuuuuust right

 

How do you get Goldilocks Cowboys to your match?

[Cypress Sun]

I've heard plenty of middle of the road shooters say, "Boy, I shot that one clean in 24 seconds".

 

Never heard one say, "Boy, shot that one clean in 50 seconds".

[Spades Hanlin SASS#66204]

It always amazes me to listen to someone grumbling about how big and close the targets seem, then not be able to shoot the match clean????

 

Maybe just maybe they fell into the big close trap!!! You know the one... Yeah thats the point of the game,COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING!!!!

 

Now set em big and close and lets GITTER DONE!!!

 

 

Spades H.. HOW IN THE #$%&^ DID I MISS THAT BARN DOOR???????????

[Noz]

The only time I have seen a target too close was at a major match a few years back. A pistol target was hit on the edge and it turned 90 degreed away from the shooter. Before the next shooter came to the line, the RO grabbed the front edge of the stage, leaned out and straightened the target. It was less than 5 feet.

Our stage run very close to SASS recommendations and we occasionally will get a complaint about them being too far. However when our good shooters are running in the low thirties on our range then they go to a close shoot, they run in the twenties.

[Gawd Awful]

I don't mind the targets at REASONABLE distances. The targets are the same for everyone.

What I don't like and will not shoot if I know they are there are targets with cutouts or even knockouts so a bullet can pass through an opening in the target. That turns the shooting match into luck and sometimes give advantages to the shooter that know ahead of time that you can't double tap in the same spot because of a knockout.

I am not fond of odd shaped targets either as it causes misses depending on which direction your gun is moving if you break the shot as soon as your sights cross the target. (I really hate those SASS cowboy targets. I shoot between the legs all the time.)

 

And yes, it irritates me to waste lead by missing.

 

Large and close is what most people will smile about, but make sure your targets are in good shape and you set them so you don't get splatter off the ground or target stand. People don't like being hit by lead splatter often.

 

I know this is strange coming from me, but well said Ace. I agree 100 percent.

[Colt McAllister]

So a 16"x16" pistol target at 10 yrds. is to difficult? I can see a steady diet of those would get a little difficult. Now, that size of target at 7 yrds. is a very generous target that would make for a great match. Nothing is more boring than dumpsters at 4 yrds. Which seems to be the trend. As far as rifle targets go, I would have loved to seen 13 yrd to 20 yrd targets. It's the steady diet of 7 yrd to 10 yrd rifle targets that puts me to sleep. I always loved the thin edge of speed, fundamentals, and quality of action jobs on the guns that it took to win matches when a 7 yrd 16x16 pistol target was concidered a very hittable and fair target. Also when a 16x16 rifle target at 12 yrds was a close burn em up rifle target. Now those targets are too small and too far targets that will send shooters running to the club down the road. Interesting. What changed?

[Warden Callaway]

I've heard plenty of middle of the road shooters say, "Boy, I shot that one clean in 24 seconds".

 

Never heard one say, "Boy, shot that one clean in 50 seconds".

Boy! I shot that one clean in 46.13 seconds! (My best stage shooting gunfighter at last match - average a little over 50/stage.)

[Litl Red]

Sounds like a threat: Don't set your targets close enough and NOBODY WILL COME PLAY WITH YOU AGAIN!

 

Sounds sorta like: Don't do it my way and nobody will like you.

 

I'm with Colt McAllister in wondering what changed? Targets that take aiming send shooters running to the club down the road? Yeah, what changed in the makeup of the American population?

[Blastmaster]

What changed?

Shooting fundamentals have generally deminished.

 

Aiming has become secondary.

 

How fast can one cock/lever their firearm is the skill set now, plus subconscious minded smooth transitions to next firearm. Don't forget the gaming/reading of the stage on where and how to stage firearms to minimize movement. Don't forget knowing the rules and knowing just how far into the gray/black one can go and not be penalized.

 

You will also notice that majority of targets are set horizontally on same plane so sweeps are smoother and faster cause of minimal vertical sight adjustment necessary between targets.

 

All part of the game and fun factor

[Most Wanted]

I think your wrong about the aiming part. The fastest shooters can tell you where they missed just about every time. It's just hard for some to believe they are aiming at that speed. They didn't get there by not working their A$$ off. So for them ALL of their shooting fundamentals are spot on. Just need the slo mo cam to catch it.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Love the criticism of those that like bigger/closer targets...that they are somehow less capable of fundamental gun handling...or that 16" at 10 yards is difficult for them.

 

That's just pure ignorance of the talent and mind set of those that like bigger/closer targets.

 

This game brings ZERO dollars into the pockets of it's competitors/members/participants. The ONLY reason folks do "it" is for the entertainment value "it" offers. Bigger/closer offers more entertainment for more people. I think until this concept becomes apparent to those that don't care for the Bigger/Closer targets they will continue to use smoke and mirrors to try and divert the issue to one's ability or some nefarious desire to dumb down the game.

 

Cheers!

Phantom

[diablo slim]

We have both types of shooting on our range....

Big and close for regular SASS shooters who want big and fast.

We also offer Cody-Dixon .They shoot at the rifle targets with

their pistols and big far targets(50 yrds or more) with their rifles.

Everyone has fun their way.....

[N. Da Brig]

LOL!!! Large and close targets?!? For me...regardless of size, shape, and/or distance...they all shrink to the size of a postage stamp once that buzzer sounds!!

 

I'll never shoot fast...all I want to do is create some bang and clang...AND HAVE A FUN TIME!!!

[Pit Bull Tex]

Big and close or far and small.I don't care as long as I get to shoot.I have seen some I thought were to close,but I still had a blast shooting and got a P for not using my head.If they are really close shoot at the corners.If they are what you think are to far aim a little better.The good shooter will still shoot the small and far targets faster that the Pack.They great shooter will beat the pack by more if they are far and small.I just think this GAME is to much fun to worry about how big or how small the targets are.It is to much fun to worry how close or how far the targets are.The middle of the pack shooter will be in the middle of the scoring no matter where the target are and how big they are.Just give me a good posse marshal and lets shoot.I have missed a target as big and a VW and I missed it with my rifle and it was also a pistol target.My only miss for the match.If you don't look at the target you can miss them.I just love the game and the people and lets just shoot.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

...Have you ever gone home from a match (probably a monthly) upset with your performance only to discover when the scores are posted that you won your category or maybe the match? I have, it doesn't feel good.

Hubby and I used to shoot a non-SASS match at Chabot park. One year, at the annual, I missed 14 rifle on the first stage. The rifle round total was 30 on the stage. I was disheartened until the next lady shooter missed 16. I came out top cowgirl at that annual. I was elated, amused, and mystified.

 

We used to attend every match until we moved. It was fun; but, not my favorite match. Contrary to what some say, shooting targets that small and far, does nothing for your speed, well it didn't for me..

[billy broncstomper]

As a fairly new shooter (about 4 months) I'm not sure my opinion counts for much. But here it is. I vote for what sass recommends for target size and distance. I also think bigger and closer than that is OK also. Don't think smaller and farther is good for everyone. IMO. My wife and I both love this game more than words can say. We shoot every weekend, Saturday and Sunday. Any shoot within 3 hrs is close enough. We've shot with several different clubs and have more to shoot with for the first time. My point is we've shot at big and close and small and far clubs. The big and close shoots are more enjoyable for everyone. Anyone who doesn't think so might want to tag along with a new shooter for a day at both types of shoots. Keep track of the big smiles a new shooter gets from shooting a stage clean. I think you might see a difference. I really don't mind the smaller and farther targets, I just love shooting. But I have seen my wife so discouraged over the number of misses at a shoot,I wasn't sure she wanted to shoot anymore. Noboby likes to walk off a stage with 5 or 6 misses or more! We we've been told the smaller and farther targets will make you a better shooter, don't agree with that either. It has surprised me the number of other new shooters we run into in our travels, not very many. I say move the targets in, make em descent sized and let everyone have fun. We need more new shooters. All this rambling is just my opinion, no disrespect to anyone.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Hubby and I used to shoot a non-SASS match at Chabot park. One year, at the annual, I missed 14 rifle on the first stage. The rifle round total was 30 on the stage. I was disheartened until the next lady shooter missed 16. I came out top cowgirl at that annual. I was elated, amused, and mystified.

 

We used to attend every match until we moved. It was fun; but, not my favorite match. Contrary to what some say, shooting targets that small and far, does nothing for your speed, well it didn't for me..

I shoot at chabot as well. That's the one I was referring to where you get to use rifle caliber rifles if you want. They also let you stoke your shotguns so those with 97 are even faster. Variety is the spice of life.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

I shoot at chabot as well. That's the one I was referring to where you get to use rifle caliber rifles if you want. They also let you stoke your shotguns so those with 97 are even faster. Variety is the spice of life.

Hi Big Hip Iron,

 

I miss the folks there. It was a different group than I usually see east of Sacramento, where I shoot mostly now. I'd attend an annual there; but, they no longer have them...

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

PS Hubby cleaned the match once. That was a big deal as it is rarely done.

[Brimstone Bill Willson]

I like the big and close for the pistols, but I would like big and far for the rifle.

[Guest Grass Range #51406]

So for the most part speed ( large & close) is more important than accuracy?

[Marauder SASS #13056]

More important to me is a match with some good variety. Yes, I like most of the stages to be relatively close and fast, but have a variety of targets and distances.

 

As well as a variety of sequences, at least half of the stages having some movement.

 

Maybe some slightly unusual targets, such as a moving target (that is hittable), A Texas Star for example.

 

That takes more creativity and work from those that write and set up stages. So it is difficult to do long term, but when it is done, it sure makes things fun.

 

Another thing is that many times clubs each have their own "personality". So some are fast and furious, some have a little more movement, some a little more difficult targets, etc. Of course you can go too far with any of those ideas, but as long as it is reasonable - and folks continue to enjoy it. I really like that variety. We are fortunate to have that him in Georgia.

 

And that helps prepare me for essentially any (big or non-local) match I may attend. Now some matches I may not want to return to, but those are pretty rare.

 

So folks that prefer one type or another can go to that club. But generally we all like the different challenges so we support as many clubs as we can. I only wish I could go to some more of them more often

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

As a fairly new shooter (about 4 months) I'm not sure my opinion counts for much. But here it is. I vote for what sass recommends for target size and distance. I also think bigger and closer than that is OK also. Don't think smaller and farther is good for everyone. IMO. My wife and I both love this game more than words can say. We shoot every weekend, Saturday and Sunday. Any shoot within 3 hrs is close enough. We've shot with several different clubs and have more to shoot with for the first time. My point is we've shot at big and close and small and far clubs. The big and close shoots are more enjoyable for everyone. Anyone who doesn't think so might want to tag along with a new shooter for a day at both types of shoots. Keep track of the big smiles a new shooter gets from shooting a stage clean. I think you might see a difference. I really don't mind the smaller and farther targets, I just love shooting. But I have seen my wife so discouraged over the number of misses at a shoot,I wasn't sure she wanted to shoot anymore. Noboby likes to walk off a stage with 5 or 6 misses or more! We we've been told the smaller and farther targets will make you a better shooter, don't agree with that either. It has surprised me the number of other new shooters we run into in our travels, not very many. I say move the targets in, make em descent sized and let everyone have fun. We need more new shooters. All this rambling is just my opinion, no disrespect to anyone.

While you may be new to the sport it appears you have a excellent grasp on the game. There has always been a amount of elitism in the game pertainig to target placement. Some of the smaller farther crowd really feel like they have a superior view over the locsl yokals who just want to ring steel. In the end folks always vote with their money and feet. As always if you want to see a change show up and volunteer at your locsl club and then listen to feedback. If you aren't willing to make a difference then you will never know.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

I don't really care for too big and too close as long as everyone shoots the same targets. Went to a match once where two guys tried to slow some people down. The "fast" shooters shot targets that were smaller, further away and more spread apart than the "slow" shooters. The "fast" shooters still won and the club officials made it VERY clear those two would never be writing stages and setting up the match again.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Remember that we are playing cowboy and generally close up street fights. Not sniper matches.

 

(If you like silhouette matches, then find some or go to long range side matches.)

 

The main exception is Hickok and his famous fight where it was a single long pistol shot.

 

So we are doing the Shoot out at the OK corral (although miss named ) That was VERY close and had life-sized targets. Guess what, there were many misses, but accuracy had some impact!

 

The Luke Short and Jim Courtright talk about close and big!

 

Several years ago SASS wanted to experiment with significantly changing the game, so they ask match directors to move targets further out, wider apart, up and down, etc. While attending such a match, I noticed that not only was I frustrated, but nearly everyone was very grumpy - and didn't really know why.

 

But they were missing more and they noticed they were performing so much worse compared to the better shooters they normally know and measure themselves by.

 

So I graphed out the averages and also graphed out several shooters I was familiar with. What the study showed was what many here have said. The top shooters "ran away" with the match. They did SO much better than others. (You see they practice a lot more and include both speed and accuracy. They have good eyes, some strength, etc.)

 

As you moved down the score board, the gaps became wider and wider. Shooters only sort of realized the bigger gaps but they were very frustrated.

 

And most of the top shooters also sensed the frustration, either with their own performance or their friends. Several said they did not enjoy a match where their pards were not having fun.

 

With several great matches in Georgia, we set up a match close to me - which is really RARE! Unfortunately we only had that range for a couple years. But I was surprised to see folks traveling as far or farther than I have to travel. So I asked them why? They surprised me because they said that our matches gave variety which included having them have some stage they could really shoot fast - fast for them. It was such a thrill. We had not really intended such, but it worked out that was as we just designed as we enjoyed.

[Guest Cinch, SASS#29433]

Love the criticism of those that like bigger/closer targets...that they are somehow less capable of fundamental gun handling...or that 16" at 10 yards is difficult for them.

 

That's just pure ignorance of the talent and mind set of those that like bigger/closer targets.

 

This game brings ZERO dollars into the pockets of it's competitors/members/participants. The ONLY reason folks do "it" is for the entertainment value "it" offers. Bigger/closer offers more entertainment for more people. I think until this concept becomes apparent to those that don't care for the Bigger/Closer targets they will continue to use smoke and mirrors to try and divert the issue to one's ability or some nefarious desire to dumb down the game.

 

Cheers!

Phantom

 

Don't forget it has made SASS membership soar!! Now let's tab over and read the Chronicle...

 

Super big and super close are fun for the gun drainer types but a good mix is what's needed. I have monkeyed with all types of target placement, ways to trip up transitions, and even had a stage with no targets just drain your guns out the window (not popular and times soared).

 

Stage times can drop for folks that shoot in the 10's to 20's with closer targets. Folks that shoot in the 30's will see a minor drop and folks that shoot in the 40's and up might shoot cleaner. There is a limit to how fast some folks can process the shooting order and this is really the biggest factor in stage times. Have a complicated sequence and different complicated rifle sequence on the same stage and watch what happens.

 

Multi tap targets as well as very closely spaced targets make a big difference also. Set up 3 targets to shoot Nevada sweep at 4 yards from the firing line closely bunched. Then set up the same with 6 yards between them and watch the difference. It begins to negate (not totally eliminate) rapid levering or thumbing advantage, and makes one find the sight to make the hit.

 

There are those that are pro big and close and there are those who don't favor that for one reason or the other, but variety is the spice of life and in the long run makes better shooters. There are those that set up matches for 13 second shooters when 75% of the match is made up of 50 and 60 second shooters. This has become the new normal and while seeing someone rip off a smoking run is fun for a minute it only serves to remind folks on the ride home how far away they are from that. Maybe they can do it someday but more likely maybe they can't...

 

I don't think one or the other is right or wrong but I get tired of the big and close group being overly snide in their comments to the very small (16x16 @ 8 yds) and very far (16x16 @ 15 yds) group. As for me I know what that doo-hickey what makes the rear sight go up is for and if I need to raise it one or two notches I will and will still try to rip'em off as if they are 15 feet way.

 

Be Nice and Good Shooting!!

[Diamond S Doug]

^{For a recurring match I think it is more important to meet the expectations of the participants. Set the standard so people know what to expect, your attendance will tell you if you are on the right track. People go to Bordertown for big, fast, close, and in your face targets. It makes for a fun, fast paced match. Winter Range is a bit farther out with some technical stages and variety, moving targets or poppers. Both are always sold out and for different reasons, if you put Winter Range stages at Bordertown you will have a lot of dissatisfied customers because that is not what they are there for.}

 

^{For me as long as I'm not the only one at the shoot it's a good time.}

[Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385]

What l like is setting the targets at a distance that attracts folks to go fast but if your fundamentals arent sound your probably not going to shoot clean, but if your out for a clean match it's completely doable.

 

Folks that think setting targets further out and smaller is some how narrow the gap are just dreaming,it does the exact opposite as many have said, and it just frustrates most folks.

 

That being said I dont really care for a manipulation match with huge targets at 4 yds either.

 

Always a fun topic to read.

 

AO

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Hi Big Hip Iron,

 

I miss the folks there. It was a different group than I usually see east of Sacramento, where I shoot mostly now. I'd attend an annual there; but, they no longer have them...

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

PS Hubby cleaned the match once. That was a big deal as it is rarely done.

That's great AM. Where do you shoot in Sac? I've started making the rounds to as many local and near local matches as I can just to get a feel for what's out there. I haven't been to enough clubs enough times to decide who's best yet, but my loyalties are currently with Richmond since they were my first.

[Deadlee Headlee SASS 54317 L]

We have 3 berms that we can set up for our match so we have to shoot 2 stages on each set of targets. I am just starting to shoot again and I have not written a stage for a while now. When I was writing them regularly I liked to set up 1 stage with the pistol targets 1-2 yards closer and the rifle targets 1-3 yards closer than the SASS recommendations, the next stage close to the recommendations, and the last stage set with the pistol 1-2 yards farther and the rifle 2-4 yards farther. That way the match has sequences that can appeal to shooters that favor different target distances but still offer a challenge to all. Clean matches are always very attainable.

 

Shoot fast

Have fun

 

-Deadlee

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Big!

 

I loved Richmond too. Mostly, I shoot Diamond Dick's Cowboy Town east of Sacramento. Occasionally, Hangtown Vigilance Committee.

 

http://www.californiagunslingers.com/

 

Regards,

 

Allie

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

When some folks hear small and far, they imagine as Cinch said "very small (16x16 @ 8 yds) and very far (16x16 @ 15 yds)." I'm guessing that is not what the Bart Solo is speaking of. Bart, feel free to chime in if I'm wrong.

 

Over the years I've travelled to a lot of matches in a lot of places. Much of it has been the typical big match touring that most imagine, but a fair amount of it has been me finding myself in an area during the normal course of travelling and while I'm there I'll seek out a local match. I've found that certain areas tend to be "small and far" areas with most all if not all of the matches in that area having a totally different concept of the game. Ten yards or better on pistol targets that might not even be 16 x 16. Rifle targets in the shape of coiled snakes with the centers being no more than 8 inches set at distances unimaginable to most folks reading this thread, sometimes all but hidden in shaded areas. I once shot a match where the rifle targets were dominos (with numbers that you shot in numerical order, but nothing resembling any kind of sweep) across a friggin' hollow in amongst trees at about 75 yards. The delay in hearing the impact messed with my head. I had never seen anything like it nor have I since to that extreme.

 

Any shooter from most of the clubs across the country who is typically in the top 25% could have been top cowboy there. Their shooters didn't understand fast. At the time I had not been shooting but a few months. It was the first time I had been top cowboy and would be the last time for a long time simply because I typically shoot where shooting fast is not frowned upon and the assumption is not made that if you shoot fast, you're not looking at your sights. In other words, I shoot at clubs that are very similar to the clubs where most people shoot...where not all targets are huge and in your face, but they're normal sizes and distances.

 

Bart, the bad news is where this little bitty, far away concept exists, it's near impossible if not impossible to convince them that they should consider changing. They'll kill a club dead as a hammer before they'll change. As Brother King said, they'll blame it on the economy. The club with the dominos is gone, long gone.

 

Nobody's mind is going to be changed on the Wire. The only people I've seen change their mind are the ones who begin to travel. Welcome aboard, Bart!

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

So a 16"x16" pistol target at 10 yrds. is to difficult? I can see a steady diet of those would get a little difficult. Now that size of target at 7 yrds. is a very generous target that would hold make for a great match. Nothing is more boring than dumpsters at 4 yrds. Which seems to be the trend. As far as rifle targets go, I would have loved to seen 13 yrd to 20 yrd targets. It's the steady diet of 7 yrd to 10 yrd rifle targets that put me to sleep. I always loved the thin edge of speed, fundamentals, and quality of action jobs on the guns that it took to win matches when a 7 yrd 16x16 pistol target was concidered a very hittable and fair target. Also when a 16x16 rifle target at 12 yrds was a close burn em up rifle target. Now those targets are too small and too far targets that will send shooters running to the club down the road. Interesting. What changed?

 

What happened?

Choice - that's what happened.

 

The number of events and clubs to choose from is much larger than it was 10 -15 years ago.

No longer does a shooter "have" to attend a match just because that is the only game in town.

And as shooter began to get choices - the events that emphasized fun, fast, big and close grew while the "challenging" groups went stagnant or declined in attendance.

 

I don't go to a cowboy shoot to "become" a better shooter.

I already know how to shoot.

I attend cowboy action shoots to spend time with my daughter, my friends and to "play" cowboy for a few hours.

And part of that play time is to have fun, laugh and forget the real world.

 

When a match begins to feel like work; it is no longer fun.

When it is no longer fun; I will find something else to do.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

So for the most part speed ( large & close) is more important than accuracy?

 

One of the biggest fallacies in Cowboy Action Shooting.

Accuracy is much more important in Big & Close events than it is in Distance matches.

 

Don't believe me? Look at the numbers.

What is the time penalty for HITTING a target? "Zero", you respond, "There is no time penalty for a hit"

But there is - the time penalty for a hit is however long it takes you to aim and make a hit.

On distant targets - that penalty could be 1 second for some and three seconds for others (and they may still miss even after that)

So if I miss on a 1/4 second aimed shot - my penalty is 5 1/4 seconds for that shot.

The deficit to the aimed shot (that hits) is only 4 1/4 seconds and maybe as little 2 1/4 seconds.

And if they miss? I can beat them simply on manipulation speed.

I maybe able to outrun a missed shot here and there.

Especially knowing that "Clean Shoots" are very rare with certain clubs.

 

Aint going to happen with Big & Close.

The penalty for a hit is still aiming time - but with Big & Close, no one is taking 3 seconds to aim (and still missing after that)

The penalty for a miss is still the same, 5 plus aiming time.

But with Big & Close - the difference required to make an aimed shot versus a missed shot is so insignificant that you cannot out run misses.

 

If you are going to win - you may be able to do so in a distant match with a number of misses and a couple of bobbles; your gun speed alone may be enough to save you.

With Big & Close - if you are not fast AND pretty near perfect in hits, transitions and movements - you will not win.

 

Accuracy counts for more when the targets are close.

[Warden Callaway]

 

Here is a video I shot at our last match. I don't have the exact target distance but I'd say they are within SASS guidelines and certainly not CLOSE, close. The pistol targets are large. The skillet rifle target takes some concentration to hit. The other two a little better.

 

I don't like our shotgun targets. They are small and too close. We get almost no lead splatter coming back from pistol and rifle targets but often get stung by splatter from shotgun targets. Some of it may be due to them setting at an angle - not to the shooter, but to stage.

 

Notice there are a concentration of hits in the center of every target so I'd say they are big enough.

 

The "Callaway Kid" (no relation) is shooting. He had top score of 160 for 6 stages clean.

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

So a 16"x16" pistol target at 10 yrds. is to difficult? I can see a steady diet of those would get a little difficult. Now that size of target at 7 yrds. is a very generous target that would hold make for a great match. Nothing is more boring than dumpsters at 4 yrds. Which seems to be the trend. As far as rifle targets go, I would have loved to seen 13 yrd to 20 yrd targets. It's the steady diet of 7 yrd to 10 yrd rifle targets that put me to sleep. I always loved the thin edge of speed, fundamentals, and quality of action jobs on the guns that it took to win matches when a 7 yrd 16x16 pistol target was concidered a very hittable and fair target. Also when a 16x16 rifle target at 12 yrds was a close burn em up rifle target. Now those targets are too small and too far targets that will send shooters running to the club down the road. Interesting. What changed?

 

 

I like pistol and sg targets big and close. We have one target we used to use called Bigfoot probly about 3 feet wide by 6 feet tall and close. Pistol dump I still throw a round off as do many other folks. Truly there is no target too big or close to miss. BUT I hate rifle targets right behind the pistol targets. It is just crazy. The purpose of the rifle is the projection of power over a distance, NOT to see who can toggle the bloomin' thing the fastest. BORING. No rifle target should be closer than 10 yards if it is sorta big, make that 20 if it is real big. Really really big rifle targets are fine, we are a speed match shooting at riders or buffalo not a squirrel match.

 

I like the big and close for the pistols, but I would like big and far for the rifle.

 

 

+1 EXACTLY!