LARGE, CLOSE TARGETS?

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

Their focus is on making their customers happy...just like everyone's match should be focused on. Farther = less happy for the majority.

 

That's this game...it ain't Bullseye or any other distance/accuracy shooting discipline...it's CAS.

 

Phantom

 

Agreed. That's what I've been saying all along! This is supposed to be fast and fun. big targets up close lt even mediocre shooters (and lets face it, most of us are mediocre) can get most of our shots on that big piece of steel.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

So, here are the recommendations from SASS

 

 

 

Are you saying the targets are closer than these minimums?

The major matches we enjoy have many targets less than the SASS recommended distances as well as larger targets.

[Hells Comin]

Cowboy ACTION shooting-(CAS)

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

There is a reason that Folks watch NASCAR - fast, simple (appearing) courses and the personal delusion that with the right equipment and practice anyone could do it.

 

Big & Close Cowboy Action allows us the same ideas. The course isn't necessarily the biggest challenge, it is the speed at which you navigate the course. Big & Close allows anyone to pretend to be Badlands Bud/ Deuce Stevens/ Matt Black/ SASS Kicker. We get to shoot faster than we thought possible, (no matter how fast is our "normal") and when a 40 second shooter rips off their first sub 30 second stage...

Well you know what the snail said when he rode the turtle, don't you?

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

 

Big & Close affords that kind of feeling and fun to a match and to the shooters participating.

It is a rush that will never be replicated by the club, match director or event that insists on bullseye, accuracy style matches.

[Buffalo Bill Mathewson, 37826]

Too close is when it is easy to mistake the rifle targets for pistol targets and when your missed pistol round hits the ground at the base of the pistol targets you earn a DQ for hitting the ground within 5 feet of the firing line. Too far and small is when my sure hit sight totally eclipses the target.

 

Other than that all is good.

 

BBM

[Black Mike]

At one shoot this year we decided to put our targets just a tad farther than the recommended minimum and used some small and odd shapes. By the 4th stage instead of saying the stage lines I began to hear some scary comments about the stage writers. All in fun of course ( I hope).

 

Anyhow, the next shoot we went big and close and we even made up the one pictured below for all ten pistol and rifle. The times were very low, but we did have some misses, great fun and laughter.

 

While some of us like to see some small and distant targets, the consensus for our local group is big and close. So that's what it will be, most of the time.

 

 

[Lead Ringer]

We have a local club who does the far and small. They take pride in the fact that the seldom have a clean match shooter. The other clubs do large and close but throw in some sort of challenge occasionally. They have grown in numbers. The other has shrunk.

Ike

Yep...have heard that more than once😏

Regards,

Ringer

[Warden Callaway]

I'm new to CAS. I've been shooting a calendar year at the local range each month. We don't shoot the winter months so I figured I've shot 8, maybe 9 matches. Shot my first two matches clean (duelist) and my last match clean (gunfighter). The others? Well, gun malfunctions, was sick one match and left early, the dowg eat my homework. But I always come in near the bottom of the list. I calculated I could shoot all shots into the ground as fast as I could and come up with a better score.

 

Years ago I shot handgun silhouette where the chicken target was about 4 square inches and 25 meters out to ram about the size of a watermelon at 100 meters. So I didn't see any challenge in hitting something 100x bigger at 1/3 the distance.

 

Other dimensions are "close together" and "dumping" on one target.

[Beartrap SASS#57175]

Hi Bart,

 

You are not alone. I prefer to hit more targets rather than less.

 

Besides, any SASS member deriding another over a personal preference needs a spanking!

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

I think any moderator that likes cats is plum loco! (do I get a spanking from a cat loving moderator now?) :lol:

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

Me,

I like small.

I like far.

I like big.

I like close.

I like any combination.

 

Just as long as the targets don't get moved during the match, I'm fine with it.

 

Dang it, Beartrap...you got there before me because I was reading while your was typing.

[Korupt Karl]

Yep...have heard that more than once

Regards,

Ringer

I agree.....our club in Indiana changed a few years back to a variety of size and distant, but if they are smaller we put them close and if bigger we might have them close or farther out. Our average target is 26 xs 26.

 

Our club used to have 25 to 30 when we were small and far...now we range 40 to 60 at a shoot. Paradise Pass is truly paradise.

 

http://www.paradisepassregulators.com/

 

KK

 

I'll add a plug for Ohio and Michigan State shoots as well....come see the Midwest.

[Blastmaster]

Just think, it will not be long till someone comes up with an economically electronic SA pistol/cartridge and electronic target(s).

 

The electronic revolvers could be of any weight/size the shooter desires and would have an audio speaker that emits a pre selected sound of,,,,ping,bang, boom, or click, when the hammer falls on chamber that has a special light emitting beam cartridge.

 

The beam from the revolver would go out the barrel and toward an electronic target (whatever size ya want) that when beam hits it (anywhere cause edgers count too), another sound of ding, splat, zing could be hear for scoring purposes.

 

 

Advantages you ask,,,,

1) no splash back,

2) no lead bullets to load or purchase

3) no worries about sweeping anyone with a real gun that could cause serious injury

4) the targets can be set even closer than they are now. Like,,one foot

5) big savings on ammo and related cleaning supplies

6)environmental friendly (no hazardous lead in ground or smoke to breath)

7) no need to go to ULT

8) can walk around with electronic cartridges in gun cause they can not hurt anything.

9) can shoot a match anywhere (such as a soccer field) because you don't have to worry about endangering surrounding neighbors with real bullets.

10) no need for side berms

11) no need for a loading table, but I guess you still need a table for 6-8 people to shade up until their turn.

12)no brassing

13) no KD target to reset

14) no cease fire for going down range.

15) ol fart safe

16) who would want to steal an electronic beam gun?

17)no LT officer

 

Well you get the idea.

[Tracker Jack Daniels,58780]

 

 

Not around here.

 

Those fast shooters.

Will normally beat you by MORE on those type than they will the B&C targets.

 

I know a lot of folks think like you do on that. But they are wrong. Small and far will slow down the fast shooter

just a little.

 

They will slow down the rest of the shooters a LOT. So they end up getting beat by more than they would have.

 

And that is a fact.

+1

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

So I didn't see any challenge in hitting something 100x bigger at 1/3 the distance.

 

Here's the challenge: Shoot faster. Imagine it's a gunfight. You're up against 24 outlaws who are there to put you in the ground. Kill 'em all before they can get a bullet in you. You don't have to heart shoot them, but you need to get a bullet in 'em to take them out of commission. A knee shot will work. Shoot the gun out of their hand if need be, but you better be quick or you're gonna be pushing up daisies on boot hill. Take the time to aim...but do it quick!

 

Here's the analogy I give visitors who are seeing CAS for the first time: It's like barrel racing. Anyone who can ride a horse can go around three barrels without knocking one over. The challenge comes in doing it faster than the other riders. It's the same in CAS; the majority of shooters would shoot clean every time if they took enough time. Interestingly enough, the penalty for a knocked down barrel is the same as miss, five seconds.

I calculated I could shoot all shots into the ground as fast as I could and come up with a better score.

You need to throw that calculator away. Assuming you could dump a 10+10+4 in 20 seconds (most can't), your time would be 140 seconds per stage...and I've seen your much-quicker-than-that scores.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Years ago I shot handgun silhouette where the chicken target was about 4 square inches and 25 meters out to ram about the size of a watermelon at 100 meters. So I didn't see any challenge in hitting something 100x bigger at 1/3 the distance.

 

Other dimensions are "close together" and "dumping" on one target.

 

 

So you shoot all SASS matches clean.

 

But now. Can you do it at speed???? There is your challenge. Speed it up. Can you still do it clean???

 

As Buck pointed out. You are pretending to be in a gun fight. Just how slow are you going to go in a gun fight.

 

Are you going to let that bad man shoot you 4 times before you get one shot off?? OK. He misses some. But if he hits

you 3 of the 4 before you get one off.

 

Guess what. He still wins.

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

MD's that let their shooters hit targets and shoot simple stages that are neither a memory nor a math contest nor a foot race nor a game of "gotcha" have sold out matches.

 

The others complain about how bad the economy is.

That last line sounds like something George Carlin would have said. Fact is always stranger (and funnier) than fiction.

[Charlie Whiskers]

At most of our monthly shoots we have a mix. I don't mind it at monthlies, but for a big shoot like a State shoot, I want them big and close. More people coming from other areas are used to big and close so that's what we give them. They come back and tell others about it bringing in more folks to shoot with us. Unfortunately it seems our members decided they didn't want to host the State shoot next year.....too much work. So now all we'll be doing are monthly shoots it seems.

[Blastmaster]

You are pretending to be in a gun fight. Just how slow are you going to go in a gun fight.

 

Are you going to let that bad man shoot you 4 times before you get one shot off?? OK. He misses some. But if he hits

you 3 of the 4 before you get one off.

 

Guess what. He still wins.

Wild Bill Hickock was suppose to be pretty good but he wasn't the fastest, but he won because he hardly missed. He had a saying about speed & accuracy, what was it?

 

In real life, shoot as fast as your ability allows. Make the other person make the mistake.

 

CAS has become a speed game, which is just fine. Some people have remarkable hand/eye speed. Kinda like trying to run a 40yd sprint against a remarkable fast of foot sprinter that one will never quite be as good as.

[Bart Solo]

Going fast has its own challenges. A few weeks ago at Gunsmoke they had this great big dump rifle target, that was so darn close you would have thought you could touch it. I jacked out two rounds on that target and had to do two reloads on the clock. I wasn't alone. I watched really good shooters, names you would all know if I mentioned them, do the same thing. The skill is going fast without going too fast. The joy is walking to the unloading table knowing you were fast and clean.

 

I shoot for fun not for food. I want to have fun. Have you ever gone home from a match (probably a monthly) upset with your performance only to discover when the scores are posted that you won your category or maybe the match? I have, it doesn't feel good.

[Sedalia Dave]

I like 'em both. Let's go shoot.

 

Good luck, GJ

+10

[Badlands Bob #61228]

Krazy Kajun wrote a stage last year that had only one big target. It was a 10-10-2 stage with all rounds shot at the big target. Misses didn't count. I was amazed at the number of shooters that jacked out a live round and had to reload the rifle.

[Warden Callaway]

Full disclosure, I've never been fast at anything physical in my life. At 64, I don't think there is enough time to become fast. If I didn't have fast reflexes and coordination at 12, 16 or 30 years old, I'm not ever going to have them.

 

But, I have improved my time from first match to last match considerably. And I've went from duelist to gunfighter in the process. So I'm progressing. A bigger problem than shooting fast and hitting or missing is my reaction from buzzer, transition from gun to gun / change possition and shotgun loading.

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

I understand that most shooters prefer 16"+ pistol targets at 5 yards and 16"+ rifle targets at 8 yards. But to describe ,for example, 14" pistol targets at 8 yards and 14" rifle targets at 10 to 12 yards as far and distant or as a bullseye match is pretty freaking hilarious. Smoking Gator

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Years ago I shot handgun silhouette where the chicken target was about 4 square inches and 25 meters out to ram about the size of a watermelon at 100 meters. So I didn't see any challenge in hitting something 100x bigger at 1/3 the distance.

 

 

If you are not trying to go faster...then you'll never appreciate the challenge that is CAS. You're just shooting silhouette with cowboy guns...wearing cowboy clothes...

 

Too bad...so sad...

 

Phantom

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Have you ever gone home from a match (probably a monthly) upset with your performance only to discover when the scores are posted that you won your category or maybe the match? I have, it doesn't feel good.

?

[Two Spurs]

....I am not fond of odd shaped targets either as it causes misses depending on which direction your gun is moving if you break the shot as soon as your sights cross the target. (I really hate those SASS cowboy targets. I shoot between the legs all the time.)

 

.......

 

Uh....if you shoot between the legs all the time you can't blame that on the target.

[Sedalia Dave]

 

I enjoy shooting a little longer range. I really enjoy shooting Cody Dixon with my 45-70 Marlin.

My home club has a group of Cody/Dixon shooters. At our Saturday match the C/D shooters have the option of shooting either the regular CAS pistol or the more challenging CAS rifle targets with our pistols and the C/D targets with our big bore rifles. We usually shoot the rifle targets with our pistols for the challenge. On Sunday we shoot regular SASS pistol and rifle targets typically the targets are in at the recommended SASS distances but not always. The stage writers mix it up to keep everyone interested.

 

Another club has fast close pistol targets and the rifle targets are big but they are out about 25 yards.

 

3rd club mixes it up some but tends to have fast close targets with a lot more movement.

 

I enjoy shooting at all three clubs mostly because of the folks I shoot with ALWAYS make it a fun match.

[Colt McAllister]

Around here several of the clubs like small, far targets. They speak with derision about clubs that have large or close targets, let alone LARGE, CLOSE targets. Lately I have attended a regional and a couple of state matches featuring LARGE, CLOSE targets. I have come to really, really like that style. Shooting a stage in the low 20s or watching some guy or gal shoot a stage in 13 seconds is a rush. I am looking forward to shooting more matches like that next year, but I don't want to go back to small, far targets. Am I alone? Is it a sign of age that I find shooting at small, far targets to be closer to work than to fun? It is the same game, the same people win no matter where you put the targets, but I find LARGE AND CLOSE to be more fun. Maybe I need to attend a re-education camp or something.

Define small and far and big and close. Lots of opinions being spoke with not enough facts.

[Bart Solo]

?

I shoot places in addition to Powder Creek. What I describe actually happened. I remember several times driving home ready to give up and sell my guns. A couple of weeks later I would get the results in the mail and discover I ranked high up in the standings or even won. It isn't that I shot better than I shot, it was everybody screwed up. Nobody was having a good time.

[Bart Solo]

Define small and far and big and close. Lots of opinions being spoke with not enough facts.

 

small and far -- minimal recommended SASS targets at maximum recommended distance.

[Gran'pa Jef]

I like 'em both. Let's go shoot.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

100% agree!

It's nice within a match to shoot different stages with L & C targets and S & F ones.

Both are fun!

That's what I try to do when I design stages.

Shooting is the aim whatever the size of the target!

But, I must confess that I love L & C: they give me the feeling that I am a good shooter! And there is nothing wrong with dreaming!!!

Jef

[Amarillo Rattler]

I'll shoot 'em all.

 

Can't see 'em thru the BP smoke many times anyway. High humidity and no wind makes it even better/worse!

 

Kinda fun to shoot a stage clean and have the spotters wonder how I did it.

 

Just sayin'

 

AR

[Kid Rich]

I'll shoot 'em all.

 

Can't see 'em thru the BP smoke many times anyway. High humidity and no wind makes it even better/worse!

 

Kinda fun to shoot a stage clean and have the spotters wonder how I did it.

 

Just sayin'

 

AR

I agree with ya there AR, ya just memorize where the targets are and let'er rip. (My let'er rip is a lot of folks "slow and easy") kR

[Blastmaster]

There is a reason that Folks watch NASCAR - fast, simple (appearing) courses and the personal delusion that with the right equipment and practice anyone could do it.

 

A side note. People watch auto racing subconsciously hoping for the big firey wreck involving numerous cars. Or the car that goes over the fence.

 

NASCAR has now incorporated the smack down fista cuff fight on pit row after the checkered flag. Fantastic, you get a chance to see a wreck plus a boxing match. Hmmm, there is hope for pro wrestling to get into the NASCAR act too. Thinking ahead, then the cute girls with the Round No. cards held over their head parading around the victory circle, ,,, in their Victoria Secret Costume.

 

See ya at the races.