Subdeacon Joe Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2818536/Proud-undefeated-surviving-images-uniformed-French-veterans-fought-Napoleon.html Two things catch my attention. First, they can still wear those uniforms after all that time. Second, how frumpy the uniforms look on real people rather than on manikins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Joe, they don't look frumpy to me. And, they certainly aren't in campaign dress. I like the uniforms of the Napoleonic Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 Joe, they don't look frumpy to me. And, they certainly aren't in campaign dress. I like the uniforms of the Napoleonic Wars. I love the uniforms. But seeing real uniforms on real people, I also see the sags, folds, unevenness of the fur on the busbys, etc. Not quite the crisp look seen in museums. Maybe "frumpy" isn't quite the right word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I love the uniforms. But seeing real uniforms on real people, I also see the sags, folds, unevenness of the fur on the busbys, etc. Not quite the crisp look seen in museums. Maybe "frumpy" isn't quite the right word. TRy getting some of the sharp Tomb Guards of today in their dress blues in 40 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2818536/Proud-undefeated-surviving-images-uniformed-French-veterans-fought-Napoleon.html Two things catch my attention. First, they can still wear those uniforms after all that time. Second, how frumpy the uniforms look on real people rather than on manikins. No doubt most of them had been wearing their kit for ceremonies over the years and had certain ......adjustments made in fitting. And if you take a senior, like say, one of us, and put us in a uniform.....well, we might look a bit less than impresive than a mannequin also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 18th and 19th centuries were the high point of military uniform splendor. Too bad they aren't color pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twelve mile REB Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Those of you that served in the armed force's tried your uniform on lately? These were taken approximately 40 or more years after the fact. In fact I would be happy if mine just looked "frumpy". 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 TRy getting some of the sharp Tomb Guards of today in their dress blues in 40 years. Try getting us in our uniforms, well, most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Try getting us in our uniforms, well, most of us. Fabrics of today shrink when they sit unused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Fabrics of today shrink when they sit unused. It's closets. The longer clothes hang in a closet, the more they shrink. I'm sure closets make clothes shrink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Although this movie was box office flop and lost much money, Waterloo was a fairly accurate depiction of events leading up to the Battle of Waterloo and the phases of the battle. Uniforms are accurate. And as always, there are some unhistorical scenes used for dramatic effect. Many lines are supposedly close to the actual words of the historical characters. "Save a battle lost, nothing is so melancholy as a battle won." - Wellington. Rod Steiger played Napoleon, and Christopher Plummer played Wellington. The soldiers used were Soviet Russia soldiers. My two favorite scenes are: One, the night before the battle, Wellington confronts a private of the 27th (Inniskilling) Foot who has plundered a pig. In Wellington's army from the days in Spain, plundering was a capital offense. Two, the massed French cavalry attack on the British squares. Here's the movie Waterloo on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKmqRqY0RLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 No doubt most of them had been wearing their kit for ceremonies over the years and had certain ......adjustments made in fitting. And if you take a senior, like say, one of us, and put us in a uniform.....well, we might look a bit less than impresive than a mannequin also. You are so kind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four-Eyed Buck,SASS #14795 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 As a 175lb. senior, I doubt if I would fit in my band uniform that I wore as a 127lb. high school senior either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 What purpose did the feather duster on the hats have? Other than to make sure the enemy saw you coming before you cleared a ridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 What purpose did the feather duster on the hats have? Other than to make sure the enemy saw you coming before you cleared a ridge. The plumes, epaulets, different coloured facings and trim, were all for long range identification by commanders. Also, NCOs plumes were a different pattern than a privates. Officers of different ranks likewise had different patters of plumes. Take a look at England's Household Regiments. You can tell the regiment from just the color and position of the plume. Or the pattern of the buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 During the Napoleonic Wars, feathers on the hats weren't generally worn except on parade. However, the colors of the feathers could identify the type of soldier he was (i.e. grenadier, voltigeur, fusiliers). The French generals had black feathers on their big hats; marshals had white feathers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 The plumes, epaulets, different coloured facings and trim, were all for long range identification by commanders. Also, NCOs plumes were a different pattern than a privates. Officers of different ranks likewise had different patters of plumes. Take a look at England's Household Regiments. You can tell the regiment from just the color and position of the plume. Or the pattern of the buttons. Seems to me all that does is point out the important targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 Seems to me all that does is point out the important targets. Lets commanders and messengers pick the right units. Kind of important if the general sees that the 7th regiment is in trouble and needs help, and that the 11th is in reserve and can be moved up to support, that he KNOWS what the regiments are, and the messenger can deliver the message to the 11th to move up rather than giving it to the 4th, which then moves up in support of the 28th. Remember, this was the era of mass smoothbore fire. Yeah, you could have a battalion fire at one individual all day to try to take him out, but that would be a waste of manpower. No snipers to take out an individual at 1000 yards. Here's another example. In BQ's example, the man on the right, with the red facings, plume, and epaulets, is a grenadier. And, from the red reinforcing bands on the shako, I would say an NCO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Seems to me all that does is point out the important targets. Officers were important targets. Officers were easily identified as the had identifiable epaulettes, gorgets, and their weapon was a sword. The senior infantry officers rode a horse! However, the Napoleonic musket, which most foot soldiers carried, wasn't a very accurate weapon and why most musketry was done by volley fire. The light troops would skirmish and use aimed musket fire but it was still inaccurate unless armed with a rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 No snipers to take out an individual at 1000 yards. That's what John Sedgewick thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Lets commanders and messengers pick the right units. Kind of important if the general sees that the 7th regiment is in trouble and needs help, and that the 11th is in reserve and can be moved up to support, that he KNOWS what the regiments are, and the messenger can deliver the message to the 11th to move up rather than giving it to the 4th, which then moves up in support of the 28th. Remember, this was the era of mass smoothbore fire. Yeah, you could have a battalion fire at one individual all day to try to take him out, but that would be a waste of manpower. No snipers to take out an individual at 1000 yards. Here's another example. In BQ's example, the man on the right, with the red facings, plume, and epaulets, is a grenadier. And, from the red reinforcing bands on the shako, I would say an NCO. Joe, the red bands on the hat were worn by all enlisted grenadiers. The gold strip on the grenadier's lower arm shows he is a sergeant. Chevrons on the upper arm on French soldiers indicated years of service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 That's what John Sedgewick thought. "They couldn't hit an elephant at this range!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 That's what John Sedgewick thought. Yeah, but that was half a century later and he was facing country boys with Whitworth rifles. Besides, that was only about 500 or 600 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Yeah, but that was half a century later and he was facing country boys with Whitworth rifles. Besides, that was only about 500 or 600 yards. There's always that magic BB. Never press your luck sez I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Seems to me all that does is point out the important targets. Smooth bores couldn't hit them anyway, Charlie. That is the reason they invented cannons. Bigger miss but more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 It was also the era of "civilized" war. It was considered poor form to intentionally shoot an officer. Grenadier units were typically recruited from the largest soldiers, and their tall hats added to the intimidation factor on the battlefield. It's been a minute since I read about any of that, but weren't the grenadier units essentially shock troops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Farmer Tom, during the Napoleonic Wars every major power and most minor powers as well had grenadiers, which were considered the elite troops. And yes, they were tall and generally the more experienced veterans. The French, British, Russians, and many of the lesser powers had a company of grenadiers in their line battalions. The Austrians stripped their line battalions of grenadiers and consolidated the grenadier companies into separate battalions. If a battalion was on the attack, the grenadier company was generally in the front rank of a column of companies to lead the attack. On the defense, grenadier company was placed in the rear ranks of a column to stiffen the front ranks. When the battalion was in line of companies, the grenadiers were placed on the right flank of the line, the place of honor. The most famous Grenadiers of the Napoleonic Wars were the French Imperial Guard Grenadiers a Pied of the Old Guard. Men who had to be veterans of numerous campaigns and stand a least 5'9". At Waterloo, while covering the French retreat, a battalion of Old Guard Grenadiers fell to the last man. The monument at the Waterloo battlefield where these brave men fell is one of the more impressive battlefield monuments that I've seen. It's a wounded French Eagle with wings shot through, one foot clutching victorious battle flags, the other with talons raised in defiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Ahh yes. I remember the song. "I'm a ramblin wreck from Napolean Tech and a hell of a Grenadier" I think that's how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Didja notice that they all have buttons on the sleeves? He77, they got buttons everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Didja notice that they all have buttons on the sleeves? He77, they got buttons everywhere. Imagine the monthy Brasso bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I wonder if they had to polish all that brass before shooting all that black powder? What a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I wonder if they had to polish all that brass before shooting all that black powder? What a waste of time. Slovenly soldier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 More than that, Birdgun. I have been a slob most of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 More than that, Birdgun. I have been a slob most of my life. I tried, but my wife was tougher on me than any sergeant I had. "You looking like that reflects on me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.