Irish Red OToole, #48939 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I am working on the following 2 conflicts: - Texas State & The Central Divisional - Arizona State & The Western Divisional .... Misty This is why we love her!! Go Misty.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Moonshine Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Ok, everyone, the "latest & greatest" is now available. The project continues to grow and evolve in the amount of information! Yes- there are still dates TBA, and those conflicts that are "still in the works", this edit is date changes and additions up to this point. Thanks to everyone for your patience as we finalize the remaining details. Misty Here is the link again: http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/SanctionedMatchBooklet2015FINAL.pdf (yes, I know it says "FINAL" in the name...its not FINAL. I just have so many edits that this is the one that signifies for me which one to post up to that point.) Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Misty, Thank you for your continued efforts in herding this untamed bunch of Cowboys. Dogmeat Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Anyone who is surprised that there's growing pains the first year they're expanding the champeenchips just didn't think it through. Hopefully in a year or 2 these conflicts should be worked out. If they'd asked me, I would have advised them to set a time window for each champeenchip. For instance, if you wanna host a state match, you gotta do it in these 3 months. Wanna hold a Regional, you got these 2 months to pick from. Divisional? Pick from these 2. If you can't host the divisional due to scheduling conflicts, well shucks, that's terrible, put in for a state or regional match instead this year and try again for the divisional when you can get the dates you need. I don't know, that might not work. That's like 7 or 8 months. I shoot year round but I think lots of people have shorter 'shootin seasons' for various reasons. I don't know how short those 'seasons' typically are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Hill Dave #59561 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I am working on the following 2 conflicts: - Texas State & The Central Divisional - Arizona State & The Western Divisional .... Misty Thanks. We are crossing our fingers that it will work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Church Key, SASS # 33713 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Misty - Remember, the Perfect is the enemy of the Good. You are doing Good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackaroo, # 29989 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'll put my two bob in here, I think Misty is doing an outstanding job. And in think she is the true professional,... To try and CO ordinate dates to cater for all you cowboys out there is a huge task and one cannot please all the people all the time, as we all should know. There will always be date clashes no matter what, so if there are any of those who have responded to this thread that think they can do it better, please put your hand up! I don't see many hands???? If there are some events you cannot make because of clashes....suck it up princess!.....schedule it in for the next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 To say scheduling conflicts are "unavoidable" is ludicrous. There are 52 weekends in a year. There are NOT 52 championship events within a division. There may be scheduling conflicts between championship events and non championship events within a division, there may be scheduling conflicts between championship events in differing divisions. But to imply that a shooter in Texas or Arizona should "suck it up" because they will be forced to choose between their state shoot OR their divisional is arrogant and rude. I think Misty is a breath of fresh air and her tenure shows great promise, but regardless of her potential, I am reserving the right to speak up when she is wrong. Blind allegiance usually ends up with someone walking off a cliff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Red OToole, #48939 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 To say scheduling conflicts are "unavoidable" is ludicrous. There are 52 weekends in a year. There are NOT 52 championship events within a division. There may be scheduling conflicts between championship events and non championship events within a division, there may be scheduling conflicts between championship events in differing divisions. But to imply that a shooter in Texas or Arizona should "suck it up" because they will be forced to choose between their state shoot OR their divisional is arrogant and rude. I think Misty is a breath of fresh air and her tenure shows great promise, but regardless of her potential, I am reserving the right to speak up when she is wrong. Blind allegiance usually ends up with someone walking off a cliff. I don't recall seeing anyone saying, "suck it up". Maybe I missed something. Your comment that because there are 52 weeks in a year, implies that matches can be moved on a whim. In my opinion, THAT is arrogant and rude. Most clubs schedule their matches so as to not conflict with neighboring clubs as best as possible. That's resposible and in the best interest of the sport. Many clubs also are locked into a single weekend because other disciplines use the same range on other weekends. That's reality. Another thing that's in the best interest of the sport is trying to work out so the most people can attend the most matches so they all can be successful and grow. Also realize that in some cases, circumstances dictate that no amicable compromises are possible. It's unfortunate but also reality. So, instead of pointing fingers and bitching, why don't we let the involved clubs and SASS HQ work out the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I don't recall seeing anyone saying, "suck it up". Maybe I missed something. Your comment that because there are 52 weeks in a year, implies that matches can be moved on a whim. In my opinion, THAT is arrogant and rude. Most clubs schedule their matches so as to not conflict with neighboring clubs as best as possible. That's resposible and in the best interest of the sport. Many clubs also are locked into a single weekend because other disciplines use the same range on other weekends. That's reality. Another thing that's in the best interest of the sport is trying to work out so the most people can attend the most matches so they all can be successful and grow. Also realize that in some cases, circumstances dictate that no amicable compromises are possible. It's unfortunate but also reality. So, instead of pointing fingers and bitching, why don't we let the involved clubs and SASS HQ work out the details. First. You did miss something, check the post prior to mine.Second. There are 52 weekends a year, but just as importantly 12 months a year. Just because a club is locked into a certain weekend does not mean they don't have the option to host a shoot in a differing month. Trying to convince us that championship level conflict scheduling is unavoidable is silly. An announcement of this magnitude should have never been released prior to the scheduling conflicts being fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 For the person who runs a state championship to publicly condemn the sanctioning body is probably not one of the brightest things I have seen done. If I were SASS I would likely be looking for a host that would support the organization rather than tear it down. I assure you that no e of the parties involved nor SASS want any of these matches to conflict with each other. They are working on trying to resolve that while you sit here and criticize their efforts and contend that it is as simple as changing to a different month. That is the most arrogant thing I have read in this entire thread. Would you be willing to move Eldorado to say, August? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I like the idea. The eastern Divisionals overlap with the Alabama State Championships. To have a true bracket you can not have any overlaps. You want to discourage shooters from attending a State, Regional or Divisonal because they overlap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I would expect that things will shuffle around some over the first few years of the new structure. Many clubs have locked in dates for their matches, and although they can change them, it may take a year or two for the new dates to become available. And, despite what some have said, the Northern half of the county has a shortened shooting schedule. Here in Maryland, we shoot late March thru November and sometimes March and November are in the snow. There is no way to schedule a "Big Match" during the November through March time frame and guarantee it can be held and I know it is even worse in some of the more northern states. In a perfect world, all the State Matches in the region would be held before the Regional Match. All the Regional Matches in a division would be held before the Divisional Match, and all the Divisional Matches would be held before the National Match, and none would conflict with anyone else. And lets not forget the International Pards who want all of their Regional/Divisional matches held before EOT. Can it be done, maybe not 100% but they should be able to get awful close. However, it is going to take time to get it right. Clubs have to look at their schedules and adjust things accordingly and they need to take into account other local clubs Annual Matches to prevent pulling folks away from each other. It is a huge logistical effort. It will get better, but it will take time. I applaud Misty and SASS for establishing this new structure and I wish them the best of luck as they work through these growing pains. Dogmeat Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 There's bound to be some growing pains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Moonshine Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Good morning everyone! Firstly, let me thank everyone for their support and feedback- it is greatly appreciated. For the record, I am not easily offended, nor do I expect blind loyalty from anyone! I WANT our members to feel respected and valued (and comfortable) enough to let me know if you think I'm doing (or have done) something wrong. I can assure, you- I am much harder on myself than any one of you could begin to be! A little faith would be awesome! Creeker makes a very valid point. In retrospect, I should have waited to make this document available until the date conflicts could be resolved. I jumped the gun. The announcement of the Divisionals had been made, and I thought that by providing this document for review (albeit incomplete), it would allow for our members to review it, discuss it, and would allow me the opportunity to tweak it with members input. Additionally, I wanted the other nearly 80 Sanctioned matches without a date conflict to be made available as soon as possible for shooters' planning purposes. This is the first time in SASS History that a document like this has been published, and admittedly I was just too excited to get this out to all of you for planning. Next year, and in the years to come, I will make sure that all dates are final and all conflicts resolved prior to making it available. (Lesson learned!) Now, as to the date conflicts. Its easy to sit back and count weekends and months and say, "Why CANT it be done without conflict?" While I completely understand that logic, there are numerous variables that also must come into play in terms of coordinating nearly 90 sanctioned matches in a given year. It is not SASS' role to TELL our clubs when they HAVE to hold a match if they want it. I'd wager that if we were in the habit of telling our clubs/members what they HAD to do, well...it wouldn't take long before we wouldn't have many of either! Taking on the great responsibility of putting on a SASS sanctioned match is a significant commitment; to SASS, and to the shooters. It requires a lot of work, coordination, money, and sacrifice. Our role at SASS is to SUPPORT all our local clubs, and to simply help in any way we can to ensure their success. Determining a date for a match is so much more than simply looking at a calendar for most clubs. Particularly those clubs who do not have the luxury of operating on a private range. Those clubs have to schedule based primarily on their host range's availability and some fall victim to the ranges inability or unwillingness to accommodate; for a multitude of reasons. Additionally, there are so many other things to consider; including weather, volunteer availability, school calendar(s), finances, vendor availability/attendance, member input, politics....the list goes on and on. Simply put, these conflicts cannot be resolved without collaboration, negotiation, compromise, and a little luck. Thanks again for all the feedback.Misty Moonshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T A Chance Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 As a member of the first Bordertown Board and also a member of the current Board, I am very interested in this situation. A large number of people in Arizona have worked hard over the last 15 years to make Bordertown successful and the current Board feels a responsibility to continue this tradition. We also want to see the new Divisional matches be successful and well attended, but having them at the same time will not accomplish this. When they are established, will the Divisionals always be at the same place like EoT and Winter Range? Since these are new matches, could they not be started on other than existing match dates. Were other clubs in the division contacted to see if they were interested in hosting the match? I understand not all clubs have the facilities to handle a large match, but there are some really good facilities in the western region that are more centrally located then Norco. I understand Misty has worked hard on this project, but I agree with Creeker. It affects all of us and we should have our questions answered. To suggest a club should lose it's State sanctioned match because we have questions is completely unreasonable. Creeker works for the success of SASS and his club and should not be threatened for expressing his opinion, We all are in this sport because we love it and want it to grow, but we since we are involved, we should be asking questions. Mist Chance Bordertown Board member . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Moonshine Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Great news! One of the conflicts has now been resolved! The Central Divisional was able to move dates to April so as not to conflict with the Texas State Match! A huge thanks to Mose Spencer and The Outlaws for helping to make this happen! I know Mose's flexibility will make him a hero in the eyes of the shooters for his ability to show his desire to put the shooters first. This will only help to ensure the success of both matches. (Its also a great stroke of luck that Mose also happens to manage the entire facility so that he could make this happen!) For the record, I'm also quite sure that if the fine folks at Plum Creek for the Texas State Match could've helped by moving their dates, they sure would have- match organizers putting the shooters first is key here! Success! Here is the latest edit: http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/SanctionedMatchBooklet2015FINAL.pdf I am still working on the dates that conflict between Bordertown, The Arizona State Championship and The Gunfight Behind the Jersey Lily, The Western Divisional Championship in 2015. Just to be clear: there is a date conflict, not a location conflict. The location of the Western Divisional Championship is not up for negotiation. I will keep everyone posted. Thanks!Misty Moonshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Bob Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 As a member of the Arizona Bordertown Board of Directors, I am obviously very interested in this topic. To my knowledge, no one on the Bordertown Board, least of all the president of same, has been contacted regarding this. How can there be discussion, communication or negotiation about this if there has been no contact? Why would a shoot fielding only 149 shooters the last go around be upgraded to a divisional shoot to the detriment of a shoot (internationally acclaimed and desired) which fielded 319 shooters and had numerous more who were not able to participate due to the number of people it could accommodate? What consideration has been given to the support and history of the Town of Tombstone for Bordertown not to say the history behind the area and how it ties into the event? How can it make sense to put a shoot in a far from centrally located location if it is supposed to represent the western division? What other locations were considered if any? What consideration was given to constraints on shooters travelling from out of state? Does the "atmosphere" of the location play in the decision? This is not meant to be an attack on Misty's very hard work. I am trying to understand what variables were considered and how these decisions were made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Doggle Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Great news! One of the conflicts has now been resolved! The Central Divisional was able to move dates to April so as not to conflict with the Texas State Match! A huge thanks to Mose Spencer and The Outlaws for helping to make this happen! I know Mose's flexibility will make him a hero in the eyes of the shooters for his ability to show his desire to put the shooters first. This will only help to ensure the success of both matches. (Its also a great stroke of luck that Mose also happens to manage the entire facility so that he could make this happen!) For the record, I'm also quite sure that if the fine folks at Plum Creek for the Texas State Match could've helped by moving their dates, they sure would have- match organizers putting the shooters first is key here! Success! Here is the latest edit: http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/SanctionedMatchBooklet2015FINAL.pdf I am still working on the dates that conflict between Bordertown, The Arizona State Championship and The Gunfight Behind the Jersey Lily, The Western Divisional Championship in 2015. Just to be clear: there is a date conflict, not a location conflict. The location of the Western Divisional Championship is not up for negotiation. I will keep everyone posted. Thanks! Misty Moonshine Thank you Misty, Mose, and The Outlaws. Boon Dodggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I would appear that the ball's now in the Norco club's court and follow the example of the Sparta folks. While GFBJL has been their annual match for many yrs. the new SASS Western Divisional Championship is just that...NEW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 It is unfortunate that most shooters in a state closest to the Western Divisional Match (outside Ca) won't be able to attend. Will be interesting to see whether a Western Div match outdraws a next door state championship held the same weekend. When costs are published for the 2 matches it may be worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Red OToole, #48939 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Lot of hate seeping across the border from AZ........wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Hill Dave #59561 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Thank you Misty, Mose, and The Outlaws. Boon Dodggle A big +1 on that from the Plum Creek Shooting Society, home of the 2015 SASS Texas State Championship (for which Texas and vicinity cowboys now have no "conflict" excuse from coming and having a great time!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Lot of hate seeping across the border from AZ........wonder why? No "hate" here, pard! Why would there be when we know that BT will still fill in less than 10 days in 2015. Y'all might want check the 2014 scores & see how many of your CA folks shoot BT yr. after yr. without the potential of winning a buckle. They come because it's a great event! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Moonshine Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 I would appear that the ball's now in the Norco club's court and follow the example of the Sparta folks. While GFBJL has been their annual match for many yrs. the new SASS Western Divisional Championship is just that...NEW! I assure you, if it were up to only The Cowboys, they would gladly move the GBJL! They have been working to try and get their host range to let them do just that. They want both matches to be a success- heck, most of them would LOVE to go to Bordertown too! When I say WE are working on it, I mean The Cowboys and I. They are doing everything in their power. With that said, it may not be accomplished. We aren't sure yet. Once we have exhausted all options and if it isn't gonna happen, I will then ask that AZ consider a change in date. If it's really about the shooters, it should be an easy decision. I implore all of you to please stop pointing fingers and breeding animosity. I sure hope we can all come together on this. There is no need to draw a line in the sand here. Now... I'm off to put on a witches hat and take care of trick or treaters! Happy Halloween everyone! Thank you, Misty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I assure you, if it were up to only The Cowboys, they would gladly move the GBJL! They have been working to try and get their host range to let them do just that. They want both matches to be a success- heck, most of them would LOVE to go to Bordertown too! When I say WE are working on it, I mean The Cowboys and I. They are doing everything in their power. With that said, it may not be accomplished. We aren't sure yet. Once we have exhausted all options and if it isn't gonna happen, I will then ask that AZ consider a change in date. If it's really about the shooters, it should be an easy decision. I implore all of you to please stop pointing fingers and breeding animosity. I sure hope we can all come together on this. There is no need to draw a line in the sand here. Now... I'm off to put on a witches hat and take care of trick or treaters! Happy Halloween everyone! Thank you, Misty Just one comment. The Cowboys and you working with the range to move the divisional is probably news to most everyone in that the one "spokesman", self appointed or not, for the club, seems to have taken the hard line that a date change is not possible or warranted. Good luck, Misty, and enjoy all the lil' goblins tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Seems like the new shoot on the block needs to accommodate existing major shoots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo and Sixgun Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Misty, Dingo Dave and I appreciate all the hard work you have done for SASS. Seems like you are always trying to come up with new ideas to make things better for the shooters. Thanks, again. Sixgun Sallie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Has anyone considered not having a Western Divisional match in 2015 and delay until 2016 unless schedule conflicts get resolved? If the Norco date can not be changed why not change locations for 2015? Not sure why we are adding more major matches while some state and regional matches now are poorly attended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Has anyone considered not having a Western Divisional match in 2015 and delay until 2016 unless schedule conflicts get resolved? If the Norco date can not be changed why not change locations for 2015? Not sure why we are adding more major matches while some state and regional matches now are poorly attended. This whole thing is a logistical nightmare. Appears that folks that live close to the divisional matches are happy, those that must drive 1000+ miles are not. One would think that a more central location could be found for all divisional shoots or another divison should have been added to the heartland. The date for EOT has been a problem for many since it was changed from April to late June. I heard rumors about the divisions for some time, it did not turn out like I envisioned, and I fear will create animosity between the WB, and shooters. I know Misty is working hard in an attempt to grow SASS and increase attendance at major matches, perhaps more shooters should have been involved in the process of setting locations and dates. Just what are the TG's and Regulators supposed to be doing? I thought the shooters were supposed to start having more input in decision making! Assassin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawed-Off Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Hi Misty. The Australian Regional match is spelled Chisholm Trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 As the Director of range operations and current member of the board of directors for The Cowboys, I would like to make it clear that we are currently working hard to explore any possible options that we may have to change the date of the Western Divisional Championship. Although there are some very serious hurdles which would have to be overcome, nothing would please us more than to be able to solve this situation on our end without Bordertown having to make any concessions. We feel that is is in the best interest of both clubs and more importantly the shooters, that they not be forced to choose which match to attend due to a scheduling issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Shooter Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Well said Smokestack. As the VP of The Cowboys. I love shooting as many large multi day matches as I can. If we can avoid a conflict we will. I would love to be able to shoot our Divisional and also be able to shoot Bordertown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankRoll Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 To all the complainers .... why don't you roll up your sleeves and volunteer?!?! Get involved with a positive attitude and start making a difference, instead of making waves. Like my grandfather used to say .... if you aren't willing to pitch in, you aren't allowed to pitch a fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 To all the complainers .... why don't you roll up your sleeves and volunteer?!?! Get involved with a positive attitude and start making a difference, instead of making waves. Like my grandfather used to say .... if you aren't willing to pitch in, you aren't allowed to pitch a fit. Ok. I promise to volunteer to work hard to change the Western Divisional match to eliminate date conflicts. I am very positive in this effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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