2015 SASS Sanctioning Structure- UPDATED

[Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L]

Only during the winter, but then we are all down there in St. Augustine! Of course there was that one year where we shot in the Sleet & Snow in Orlando!

[Flying W Ramrod]

+2

+3

[Gawd Awful]

I know it is difficult to figure out dates that work for everybody, but our Texas State match has been approved for April 30-May 3 2015 since this summer. I can't see how it is appropriate to schedule the SASS Divisional Match for the Central Division (which includes Texas) on the same weekend as the Texas State match. I get it when the California State Match is the same date as ours--different shooters, different regions--but I don't get it when the Division that includes our state chooses a date that conflicts with a state match from a state in that division. Nobody called us or let us know that this was going to be an issue. We have to find out about it on the Wire.

 

I sympathize with the club that is hosting the Divisional--I am sure that they have their own scheduling issues. But we were there first.

 

I hate to see a Texas State match like ours at Plum Creek suffer because of this. If we had scheduled our match after this Divisional schedule came out we couldn't complain, but we scheduled it before this. We have followed the SASS rules, got sanctioned by SASS, got approval from SASS for our dates, and after the fact we get this conflict-from SASS. Now Texas shooters are forced by SASS to choose. Doesn't seem fair.

 

It doesn't have to be this way. I hope SASS will re-consider those dates for the Central Divisional. Can you tweak the schedule a little more to avoid this injustice?

 

Dragon Hill Dave

President, Plum Creek Shooting Society

Home of the 2015 SASS Texas State Championship.

They did the same thing to AZ. Bordertown. Is the same weekend a the Western Divisional. Since they made this big fancy calender, you would think they would have looked at it and realized they screwed the shooters in to BIG markets. As well as loosing money on shooters who would have gone to both matches had they been able to.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

 

BTW, Cali laws on transporting firearms are pretty aligned federal and the majority of states - nothing like NY. I feel no tension transporting mine, and also have a CCW - readily availible in most of CA.

 

Regards,

Harvey

WHo will make it to the Grand after I retire (and spend little in IL, except for 2nd Ammendment busnesses).

Except here in alameda. Hopefully that court ruling on ccw will go into effect soon.

 

Just to put things in perspective, Wyoming is the least populous state, whereas California is the most. Logistically it makes sense. There are more people living in my city than the whole state of Wyoming, so the biggest matches should reach the most people. Not that I wouldn't love to to a trip there and do some hunting on horseback

[Irish Red OToole, #48939]

They did the same thing to AZ. Bordertown. Is the same weekend a the Western Divisional. Since they made this big fancy calender, you would think they would have looked at it and realized they screwed the shooters in to BIG markets. As well as loosing money on shooters who would have gone to both matches had they been able to.

The Gunfight Behind the Jersey Lily is locked into the date by the range we use. The Cowboys only get the range on the fourth weekend of the month. GBJL has been long-established as well. Something like 15 or more years on the same weekend. Now it's once again a SASS-sanctioned match. If anyone remembers, it was the Western Regional for several years. Why would The Cowboys move their shoot to another date?

[Gawd Awful]

This was the 15th Bordertown as well. And I am not trying to bad mouth TGFBJL, just seem the fine folks in ABQ should have looked at ESTABLISHED CHAMPIONSHIPS when deciding where to place the new tier of matches, and either ask the club holding the NEW CHAMPIONSHIP match if it can move dates, or look at offering it to a different Venue, instead of trampling over an EXISTING ESTABLISHED match with history.

 

If they change the western regional to the same weekend as the Cali state match and made it impossible for you to attend both (assuming they were both matches you wanted to attend) then you would ask why as well. And considering they did the same thing to TX with the central division championship, it really seams like piss poor planning to me. Just my view from my little saddle on my short little pony

[Irish Red OToole, #48939]

As I've already said, The Cowboys cannot move their match. They are contractually locked into the fourth weekend of the month with the range they use. Is Bordertown equally locked into their date? I want both matches to be well-attended. Bordertown has a history of filling up in days from opening their enrollment. It is easy to see that will hold true if the date were changed.

 

A quick look at the calendar shows that if The Cowboys move to September, they then conflict with the Four Corners Regional. August conflicts with the Hawaii State Championship. November bumps it into Thanksgiving and December puts it at Christmas. When do you propose they hold the Divisional Champonship? And what makes more sense to move.....a state match or a divisional?

[Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862]

This was the 15th Bordertown as well. And I am not trying to bad mouth TGFBJL, just seem the fine folks in ABQ should have looked at ESTABLISHED CHAMPIONSHIPS when deciding where to place the new tier of matches, and either ask the club holding the NEW CHAMPIONSHIP match if it can move dates, or look at offering it to a different Venue, instead of trampling over an EXISTING ESTABLISHED match with history.

 

If they change the western regional to the same weekend as the Cali state match and made it impossible for you to attend both (assuming they were both matches you wanted to attend) then you would ask why as well. And considering they did the same thing to TX with the central division championship, it really seams like piss poor planning to me. Just my view from my little saddle on my short little pony

 

As I've already said, The Cowboys cannot move their match. They are contractually locked into the fourth weekend of the month with the range they use. Is Bordertown equally locked into their date? I want both matches to be well-attended. Bordertown has a history of filling up in days from opening their enrollment. It is easy to see that will hold true if the date were changed.

 

A quick look at the calendar shows that if The Cowboys move to September, they then conflict with the Four Corners Regional. August conflicts with the Hawaii State Championship. November bumps it into Thanksgiving and December puts it at Christmas. When do you propose they hold the Divisional Champonship? And what makes more sense to move.....a state match or a divisional?

This is what I thought would happen when this came up in June. Ande now in Texas too.

[Bad Hand]

Except here in alameda. Hopefully that court ruling on ccw will go into effect soon.

 

Just to put things in perspective, Wyoming is the least populous state, whereas California is the most. Logistically it makes sense. There are more people living in my city than the whole state of Wyoming, so the biggest matches should reach the most people. Not that I wouldn't love to to a trip there and do some hunting on horseback

You are wrong, Alameda ("here in alameda") has a population of 76,419 while Wyoming has 582,658 that's according to the US Census Bureau.

[Gawd Awful]

As I've already said, The Cowboys cannot move their match. They are contractually locked into the fourth weekend of the month with the range they use. Is Bordertown equally locked into their date? I want both matches to be well-attended. Bordertown has a history of filling up in days from opening their enrollment. It is easy to see that will hold true if the date were changed.

 

A quick look at the calendar shows that if The Cowboys move to September, they then conflict with the Four Corners Regional. August conflicts with the Hawaii State Championship. November bumps it into Thanksgiving and December puts it at Christmas. When do you propose they hold the Divisional Champonship? And what makes more sense to move.....a state match or a divisional?

Or give the divisional to a club who would be able to accomadate the EXISTING championship schedule.

 

Not saying you guys aren't gonna do an amazing job with it, it will probably be an awesome event.

 

And I need to point out I'm just a shooter with no ties to GFBJL or BT.

 

And you probably don't want to here this, but SASS could have very easily looked at the schedule and said "Hey we got this great new match idea, and we want to give it to you, but you need to hold it at a time that doesn't conflict with the majors in your area". Then you would have come back with "our dates are locked with the range and we can't change". And if SASS was looking out for the CUSTOMERS they would have responded with something like "gee that's unfortunate, we belive you guys would do an amazing job, but we don't want to step on the existing matches so we are gonna have to find another club to hold this match somewhere in the division" and then called another club.

 

And although I am not associated with BT I Do know 3 cowboy clubs use the range on the other weekends, and they are starting up wild bunch as well.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Good job SASS and Misty, you're not gonna please everyone!

[Colt Walker 45]

I have to agree with Hells comin, would not miss Bordertown shoot. I would like to attend gbjl some time but it will not happen in the near future due to the B.T. Shoot. If the shooter range at gbjl wants to accommodate the shooters they might help. B.T. Is not only the range but the whole town of tombstone gets involved with discount for shooters on food, cloths etc. that Is one of the reasons we enjoy it so much. Tombstone shows how much they appreciate the shooters.

[Gawd Awful]

Ohh and historically BT happens around the anniversary of the gunfight at the OK corral in tombstone. What' makes more sense to change, a celaboration of history, or a divisional match that didn't exist 2 weeks ago???

 

I don't say that to be insulting, but there is more to Bordertown than just a match, there is also the history of the gunfight, what the "Town too tuff to die" does for that match as a town, and all the local buisness that support the match and offer discounts for shooters, things the city council does to promote the event.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

You are wrong, Alameda ("here in alameda") has a population of 76,419 while Wyoming has 582,658 that's according to the US Census Bureau.

Sorry about that. Two separate thoughts. Alameda is the county I live in, which is the issuing body for ccw. I live in the city of Oakland, which is about 406,000 people, so a little off but close. The state has over 37 million.

[Irish Red OToole, #48939]

Ohh and historically BT happens around the anniversary of the gunfight at the OK corral in tombstone. What' makes more sense to change, a celaboration of history, or a divisional match that didn't exist 2 weeks ago???

 

I don't say that to be insulting, but there is more to Bordertown than just a match, there is also the history of the gunfight, what the "Town too tuff to die" does for that match as a town, and all the local buisness that support the match and offer discounts for shooters, things the city council does to promote the event.

 

For not trying to be insulting, you sure got there with little trouble. Time will tell which match is the better draw.

[Misty Moonshine]

Hi again everyone,

 

To compare the coordination of scheduling all of these events to a rubix cube is an understatement... more like a nightmarish possessed rubix cube!

 

Look guys, I promise you I HAVE done and will continue to do my due diligence to be fair and accommodating; to the benefit of all our members and shooters. But there really are only so many weekends in a calendar year, and only established, successful matches were even considered for the Divisional Championships. It was my sincere hope that some of the date conflicts could be resolved. Unfortunately, some of the hosts are literally unable to move for reasons outside their control, and those who could simply refuse to consider a change in their dates- out of stubbornness or a "we were here first" attitude. Tell me, how does that attitude benefit the shooters?

 

I can assure you that I (SASS) has done all it could to resolve date conflicts, but in a few instances there simply wasn't an opportunity to reach a resolution, despite our best efforts. In fact, I am still negotiating a few date changes, and am certainly hoping that we can all come together for the benefit of the shooters.

 

I'M the "they" who made this "big fancy calendar"... as a tool and resource for the shooters. I can assure you it was looked at. And negotiated. And coordinated. And rumpled up. And looked at. And rumpled up. And negotiated. And looked at....again and again.

 

Now, to the reason I came on here.....

 

I wanted to let you all know that there are still several conflicting date negotiations in the works. Also, to let everyone know that I am working on the next edit- it should be available tomorrow- and it will also include Wild Bunch and Black Powder State Championships for your reference too!

 

Also, although I was trying to avoid a lot of fine print as it wasn't really the purpose of this document/calendar, I will also be adding the text from our Sanctioning contracts in reference to HOW the State/Regional/Divisional/National Champions are determined. The criteria has not changed- you still have to be a resident of that State/Region/Division/Country to be declared the Overall Champion. I'll add it to this document to help alleviate speculation on that subject.

 

Thanks,

 

Misty Moonshine

[Gawd Awful]

 

For not trying to be insulting, you sure got there with little trouble. Time will tell which match is the better draw.

If I "got there with little trouble" I apologize, it wasn't my intent. And your final comment tells me you don't understand my concern at all. It's not about "which match is the better draw". It's about shooters being able to enjoy BOTH. I would Love the opportunity to shoot My state championship, regional, divisional, W/R, and EOT. This conflict makes that impossible. And there are probably several people in AZ, and in TX in the same boat. It's obvious that you love your club, and your match, but try to look at it objectively instead of defending your club, because it has nothing to do with your club, or BT, or plum creek, or US open. It's about the shooters

[Dragon Hill Dave #59561]

Hi again everyone,

 

To compare the coordination of scheduling all of these events to a rubix cube is an understatement... more like a nightmarish possessed rubix cube!

 

Look guys, I promise you I HAVE done and will continue to do my due diligence to be fair and accommodating; to the benefit of all our members and shooters. But there really are only so many weekends in a calendar year, and only established, successful matches were even considered for the Divisional Championships. It was my sincere hope that some of the date conflicts could be resolved. Unfortunately, some of the hosts are literally unable to move for reasons outside their control, and those who could simply refuse to consider a change in their dates- out of stubbornness or a "we were here first" attitude. Tell me, how does that attitude benefit the shooters?

 

I can assure you that I (SASS) has done all it could to resolve date conflicts, but in a few instances there simply wasn't an opportunity to reach a resolution, despite our best efforts. In fact, I am still negotiating a few date changes, and am certainly hoping that we can all come together for the benefit of the shooters.

 

I'M the "they" who made this "big fancy calendar"... as a tool and resource for the shooters. I can assure you it was looked at. And negotiated. And coordinated. And rumpled up. And looked at. And rumpled up. And negotiated. And looked at....again and again.

 

Now, to the reason I came on here.....

 

I wanted to let you all know that there are still several conflicting date negotiations in the works. Also, to let everyone know that I am working on the next edit- it should be available tomorrow- and it will also include Wild Bunch and Black Powder State Championships for your reference too!

 

Also, although I was trying to avoid a lot of fine print as it wasn't really the purpose of this document/calendar, I will also be adding the text from our Sanctioning contracts in reference to HOW the State/Regional/Divisional/National Champions are determined. The criteria has not changed- you still have to be a resident of that State/Region/Division/Country to be declared the Overall Champion. I'll add it to this document to help alleviate speculation on that subject.

 

Thanks,

 

Misty Moonshine

Misty I know this has been hard. I will keep my fingers crossed that you figure out a way to avoid the conflict between the Texas State match and the Central Division match.

 

President Plum Creek Shooting Society

Home of the 2015 SASS Texas State Championship

[Chuckaroo #13080 Regulator]

Misty,

 

Trying to please everyone is like trying to stop the Super Chief at Midnight using a burnt out match.

 

Ain't gonna happen.

 

Roo

[Lazarus Longshot, SASS #44254 Life]

I know it is difficult to figure out dates that work for everybody, but our Texas State match has been approved for April 30-May 3 2015 since this summer. I can't see how it is appropriate to schedule the SASS Divisional Match for the Central Division (which includes Texas) on the same weekend as the Texas State match. I get it when the California State Match is the same date as ours--different shooters, different regions--but I don't get it when the Division that includes our state chooses a date that conflicts with a state match from a state in that division. Nobody called us or let us know that this was going to be an issue. We have to find out about it on the Wire.

 

I sympathize with the club that is hosting the Divisional--I am sure that they have their own scheduling issues. But we were there first.

 

I hate to see a Texas State match like ours at Plum Creek suffer because of this. If we had scheduled our match after this Divisional schedule came out we couldn't complain, but we scheduled it before this. We have followed the SASS rules, got sanctioned by SASS, got approval from SASS for our dates, and after the fact we get this conflict-from SASS. Now Texas shooters are forced by SASS to choose. Doesn't seem fair.

 

It doesn't have to be this way. I hope SASS will re-consider those dates for the Central Divisional. Can you tweak the schedule a little more to avoid this injustice?

 

Dragon Hill Dave

President, Plum Creek Shooting Society

Home of the 2015 SASS Texas State Championship.

A big +1

 

Laz

[twelve mile REB]

Misty please let us know which matches you are still working on. That would certainly help me schedule my travels if I knew I should leave some matches out of my personal schedule for further review. Great job and many thanks for the work.

12

[Chicken Scratch]

This thread reminds me of Cat Wrangling!!

Misty "the great cat herder" your doing a fine job.

don't let the cats get ya down. It's a great Idea, and will take time to work out the kinks.

 

Here is an Idea, move the Division to a different club every year, that way the same toes don't get stepped on every year…..and I don't have to drive 800 miles to shoot a Division

 

love ya, great job!!!

Chicken Scratch

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

Misty, thanks for the calender, I think it will be helpful for planning the years shooting.

 

Randy

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

There are 12 states in the western division.

Any club considered for the divisional shoot should have been required to ensure their date would not conflict with existing championship level events within the division. Any club unwilling to do so should not been considered to receive the prestige of a divisional shoot.

And by my count, 12 states, 1 divisional, 3 regional shoots, 1 national shoot and 1 world championship shoot leaves Thirty Four weekends free from championship level events within that division.

With 34 free weekends to work with, there is zero reason to have conflicting dates within a division.

[Mose Spencer, SASS #63490]

Ok to all of my parts in TEXAS .

We have to have virtually every date scheduled at THE WORLD SHOOTING COMPLEX literally 2 years in advance . We have held this date for years even as Texas and many more have moved around .

That said heck I love Texas it would be my second home if I could swing it right now , matter of fact I am in TEXAS as I write this so I can not confirm what I am trying to pull off but I assure you we are working on pulling a rabbit out of our hat .

I realize that the Texas State match was set before the divisional was finalized and we will do every thing in our power to work with every state in our division.

I do believe this is a good move for SASS and the US OPEN will be a premier match to attend.

We Hope to see you all In Sparta.

MOSE

[Gawd Awful]

Ok to all of my parts in TEXAS .

We have to have virtually every date scheduled at THE WORLD SHOOTING COMPLEX literally 2 years in advance . We have held this date for years even as Texas and many more have moved around .

That said heck I love Texas it would be my second home if I could swing it right now , matter of fact I am in TEXAS as I write this so I can not confirm what I am trying to pull off but I assure you we are working on pulling a rabbit out of our hat .

I realize that the Texas State match was set before the divisional was finalized and we will do every thing in our power to work with every state in our division.

I do believe this is a good move for SASS and the US OPEN will be a premier match to attend.

We Hope to see you all In Sparta.

MOSE

Moose,

Your a stand up guy, and I'm glad you are trying to work with the clubs in your division. I understand your scheduling pain We have to put in our range request in the first part of one year for the following year. Thank you xfor trying to handle your division in a stand up way I hope you can make that rabbit appear 🐰. Good luck.

[Hamley]

There are 12 states in the western division.

Any club considered for the divisional shoot should have been required to ensure their date would not conflict with existing championship level events within the division. Any club unwilling to do so should not been considered to receive the prestige of a divisional shoot.

And by my count, 12 states, 1 divisional, 3 regional shoots, 1 national shoot and 1 world championship shoot leaves Thirty Four weekends free from championship level events within that division.

With 34 free weekends to work with, there is zero reason to have conflicting dates within a division.

I have to agree with is.

 

Another issue is the location of the shoots. With no majors shoots in this part of the country, there are 3 other regional shoots that are closer for me than my own region. The central division shoot is also closer for me than the western division.

[Dragon Hill Dave #59561]

Ok to all of my parts in TEXAS .

We have to have virtually every date scheduled at THE WORLD SHOOTING COMPLEX literally 2 years in advance . We have held this date for years even as Texas and many more have moved around .

That said heck I love Texas it would be my second home if I could swing it right now , matter of fact I am in TEXAS as I write this so I can not confirm what I am trying to pull off but I assure you we are working on pulling a rabbit out of our hat .

I realize that the Texas State match was set before the divisional was finalized and we will do every thing in our power to work with every state in our division.

I do believe this is a good move for SASS and the US OPEN will be a premier match to attend.

We Hope to see you all In Sparta.

MOSE

Mose:

 

I hope you and Misty pull the rabbit out. I have always wanted to come to Sparta and 2015 might be the year I might be able to do it if you manage to find a date other than the Texas State match that I am helping put on.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Misty,

Thank you very much for your efforts.

 

No good deed goes unpunished, but sometimes they are rewarded.

 

I know the good folks on this here wire don't mean to come across as ungrateful, they are just worried and/or disappointed about the outcome, however, your efforts are appreciated.

 

Possum

[Gawd Awful]

Misty,

Thank you very much for your efforts.

 

No good deed goes unpunished, but sometimes they are rewarded.

 

I know the good folks on this here wire don't mean to come across as ungrateful, they are just worried and/or disappointed about the outcome, however, your efforts are appreciated.

 

Possum

He is right, and I apologize if I came across as I ungrateful or Insulting. And I realize there are lots of state and regional matches to schedule around. I believe Creeker does a better job of explaining what I was trying to get across than I did

[Dragon Hill Dave #59561]

Misty,

Thank you very much for your efforts.

 

No good deed goes unpunished, but sometimes they are rewarded.

 

I know the good folks on this here wire don't mean to come across as ungrateful, they are just worried and/or disappointed about the outcome, however, your efforts are appreciated.

 

Possum

+1

[Dead_Head]

Changes to the calendar that you need to know about:

 

April 25-26, 2015, Ballston Spa, NY - SASS NY State Wild Bunch Championships ‘Muster at Fort Misery’ 10-stages. (not May 23-24, 2015)

 

June 26-28, 2015, Candia, NH - SASS NH State Championships "Ghost Riders Revenge" 12-stages

 

July 23-26, 2015, Pelham, NH – SASS Northeast Regional ‘The Great Nor’easter’ 12-stages with side matches on Thursday. (recently changed from August 27-30, 2015.

[Misty Moonshine]

Misty please let us know which matches you are still working on. That would certainly help me schedule my travels if I knew I should leave some matches out of my personal schedule for further review. Great job and many thanks for the work.

12

 

I am working on the following 2 conflicts:

 

- Texas State & The Central Divisional

- Arizona State & The Western Divisional

 

....

Misty

[Misty Moonshine]

Changes to the calendar that you need to know about:

 

April 25-26, 2015, Ballston Spa, NY - SASS NY State Wild Bunch Championships ‘Muster at Fort Misery’ 10-stages. (not May 23-24, 2015)

 

June 26-28, 2015, Candia, NH - SASS NH State Championships "Ghost Riders Revenge" 12-stages

 

July 23-26, 2015, Pelham, NH – SASS Northeast Regional ‘The Great Nor’easter’ 12-stages with side matches on Thursday. (recently changed from August 27-30, 2015.

Thanks Dead Head!

 

These corrections are already slated for the next edit. I will post here when its posted..

 

Misty

[Lazarus Longshot, SASS #44254 Life]

Misty, I know y'all are doing everything you can, and thank you for your hard work!

 

Laz