evil dogooder Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Ok I'm posting this in the wb site too but thought I'd try here too Picked up a model 12 today at an auction. I was at the back of the crowd and couldn't get agood look but the price was right. Anyway. After doing the paperwork i got to look closely at it. Numbers matching made in 1916. Now the question. It has a solid rib like the skeet or heavy duck version but isn't labled skeet. And is only chambered in 2 3/4. Was there a different model that had the solid rib? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 So if your serial is lower than 136xxx then it can't be a heavy duck. It should have the model 12 and gauge on the left side, possibly WS1. The right side should end with 1913? Is the bolt jeweled? I am wondering if it is a low grade pigeon which was introduced in 1914. A vent rib would be a custom from the factory and the solid rib standard. Good shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 GOOD FIND!!!!! is it a field stock or a trap stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Howdy Not an expert, but I do have a few Model 12s. Model 12 Shotguns were available in many variations. I have one made in 1914 with no rib at all, one made in 1924 with a solid rib, and a Skeet model made in 1948 with a raised ventilated rib. If you want to know all there is to know about the Model 12, buy this book. http://www.daverifflegunsales.com/model_12_book P.S. you can get it cheaper on Amazon. According to the book, the serial number range for 1916 was 109,516 - 136,412. No major changes had been made since 1914. In 1914, the Model 12 was available with the standard black, hard rubber checkered buttplate with the Winchester logo on it. The first recoil pads were made by the Silvers Company. 12 gauge barrels were available 26. 28, 30 or 32 inches long with full, modified, or cylinder chokes. Raised matted ribs (commonly known as solid ribs) were available from 1913 to 1959. Tournament, Trap, and Pigeon grade guns were available. Tournament grade Model 12s had 26, 28, 30, or 32 inch barrels with a solid rib. Tournament grade guns had select walnut wood. Trap Grade guns were inlaid with a black piece of ebony in the shape of a diamond on both sides of the grip area just behind the receiver. For this reason they are often called Black Diamond models. Pigeon grade guns were factory engraved. You can often tell something about a Model 12 by the style of the forend. My 1914 vintage gun has the 14 groove forend. My 1924 Model 12 has the 18 groove forend. This was my favorite Model 12 for many years, I have shot thousands of rounds of Trap with it. This 1948 Model 12 is a Skeet model with 30 inch full choke barrel and ventilated rib. It has had a Trap stock added to it at some point. Just bought this one a few weeks ago. What are the specifics about your new Model 12? Barrel length, choke, straight grip or pistol grip stock, style of forend, etc.? P.S. Bear in mind that just like any long gun, many Model 12s had various modifications done to them over the years. P.P.S. How is the model identified on the barrel? Up until 1918 the Model 12 was called the Model 1912 and that is what it said on the barrel. After that the marking was Model 12. The barrel on my 1924 vintage gun must have been in the parts bin for a long time because it says Model 1912 on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 32" barrel 18 notch for end Mod.1912 12ga Full The butt looks like your second pic except for a red pad on the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 GOOD FIND!!!!! is it a field stock or a trap stock? Sorry i don't know the difference. No checkering. # 121### Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Not an expert either but my buddies 1914 trap gun says "trap gun" on it with 30" full choke. My 1940 28 gauge says "new style trap gun". I have one with a factory cutts on it that was made in the 1950. I have one that I bought for WB that is at my buddy's house and I have no idea when it was made. The gun in the OP is an interesting example of the different configurations that are possible. The date of manufacture kinda limits some of the options. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 cool, that is not a cut em down for wild bunch gun, 32 were pretty rare... I had one years ago, but 28" I think... now I have a trap made in 53 I think, standard trap with a pigeon fore end wood and and Anton stock, if that is the one with the rosewood pistol grip...maybe a Fajen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Sorry i don't know the difference. No checkering. A Trap stock will have a raised Monte Carlo on the comb, like the third one in my photos. You can see by the planks on my deck how much higher the comb is on the Trap stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 also, with a trap stock when you mount the gun to your shoulder and put your face on the stock, if it is a trap stock it should align your line of sight down the rib.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 I bought it because the price was right with the intention of selling it to help pay for a new set of main match pistols, but the dang thing just shoulders beautifully and the action is really nice. Its starting to grow on me. Some times it sucks being a gun addict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Be careful. Model 12s are addictive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 there is absolutely no better build pump shotgun than the model 12, period!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 See the problem is i let a 97 in and well it multiplied. Now if i let a 12 in I'm going to need more safes. It is a little weird. The guns i compete with don't multiply but every time i turn around a pump gun or adjustable sighted revolver sneaks in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cent Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 tha's a model 25 isn't it? Red Cent.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cent Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 CC, I guess it depends on who you ask. If it is a "dyed in the wool" M12 person, yes it is. Actually, it is a M25 receiver and barrel with M12 parts. Winchester built this particular shotgun for about two years. They called it the Model 12 Featherweight.. Very well balanced shotgun. Kicks the crap out of ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 I forgot about that one!!! Rem made a 31 with an aluminum receiver that kicks like a mule tuu!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cent Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 http://www.trapshooters.com/threads/model-12-rib-question.142065/ http://homesteadfirearms.com/appraisals/12winShotgun/12win-model-configurations.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 there is absolutely no better build pump shotgun than the model 12, period!! Well the Model 12 is sexier and I love 'em more but I think JMNSHO that the 870 is tougher. You cannot wear out an 870. My Model 12s and 97s require constant maintaining but I do love 'em so and am emotionally attached to them. The 870s? Not so much, just tools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Indestuctible tools that only need a bore snake and occasional drink of oil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 there is absolutely no better build pump shotgun than the model 12, period!! Cheyenne - JWB did an excellent creation with the Model 12 and it lasted for many decades but ... let's not forget it cousin, the Ithaca 37 which was adaptation on the Model 12 and also sold in the millions. Of note, the Ithaca has a much smoother action than the Model 12 based on the solid action block design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Cheyenne - JWB did an excellent creation with the Model 12 and it lasted for many decades but ... let's not forget it cousin, the Ithaca 37 which was adaptation on the Model 12 and also sold in the millions. Of note, the Ithaca has a much smoother action than the Model 12 based on the solid action block design JB, Your post confuses me. The Model 12 was designed by Winchester engineers, not Browning. The Model 37 was a copy of a Remington shotgun designed for them by John Browning and introduced after the patents on the Remington gun expired. I have Ithacas and Model 12's and don't see the familial relationship other than the fact that both actions are pump activated-what am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I am happy to read these posts and learn a little more about these guns. Mine is a take down and was made in 1913, all beat to crap from years of hunting before I bought it. I got it around 1970 and killed thousands of pheasants, partridge, rabbits, and a coyote with it. Still shoot it in Wild Bunch. More beat up than ever and runs like a clock. I have oiled it a few times. Someday I may want to get my $75 back out of it. CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Cowboy Rick Add this to your knowledge base: All model 12s are take downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Dick, your right ... The Model 12 was designed by Winchester engineer T.C. Johnson, and was based in part on the M1893/97 design by John M. Browning, As for being equal just as pump actions ... point a '37 vertical and push the release to unlock the forearm ... my '37's will gravity fall or require minimal force to rack the forearm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Cowboy Rick Add this to your knowledge base: All model 12s are take downs. My brain is going to explode. I can only absorb so much information at a time Thanks - CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Rick, PM me when you're ready to get your $75 back. I'm a big fan of the model 12 and am still looking for a 12 Ga (I have a 16ga that I negotiated for thinking it was a 12, and I don't wanna say any more about that). The more character, the better as far as I'm concerned, as long as it still works right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 As for being equal just as pump actions ... point a '37 vertical and push the release to unlock the forearm ... my '37's will gravity fall or require minimal force to rack the forearm So will my Model 12s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Cent Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 " All model 12s are take downs." Unless you add in the Model 12 Featherweight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I"ve got a Mod. 12 that I bought just for WB, already has the barrel cut down and it functions pretty well, made in 1947 according to the SN.. I also have my grandfather's Model 12 that was made in 1927 and is not blued, it's got a nickel finish on it....pretty cool shotgun and is smooth. One thing though, the Model 12 is a one armed slide. I have a Rem 870 that I bought used in 1969 and hunted ducks in the marsh when I lived in South LA. It has two arms on the slide and seems to be smoother. I like the feel of the 870 slide better than I do the Model 12, just feels more solid. Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 One thing though, the Model 12 is a one armed slide. I have a Rem 870 that I bought used in 1969 and hunted ducks in the marsh when I lived in South LA. It has two arms on the slide and seems to be smoother. I like the feel of the 870 slide better than I do the Model 12, just feels more solid. As I mentioned earlier, I have 3 Model 12s. I never understand this business about the two slides on the 870 being better than one slide on the Model 12. My Model 12s, 1914, 1924, and 1948 vintages, are smooth as can be. So is my old Winchester Model '06 gallery rifle. Just don't understand the perceived superiority of the two slides on the Model 870. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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