Boben Weev Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Shooter starts in correct position with pistol. He tries to cock pistol and finally succeeds in cocking pistol. He asks the RO if he can stop because of possible faulty ammo. At this point, no shot has been fired down range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Restart. DO NOT de-cock the pistol without the approval and supervision of the TO. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 no call to be made at the ROs specific direction either decock pistol and re-index it, or fire round into the berm if the TO prefers go to the unloading table, unload, figure out yer ammo and git back in line at the loading table for a reshoot ref RO 1 page 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Restart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawed-Off Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I find the rules around de-cocking to be somewhat contradictory. RO I page 15: 7.De-cocking may not be done to avoid a penalty if cocked at the wrong time, position or location once a round has gone down range. NO gun may be de-cocked on the firing line except by pointing it down range and pulling the trigger or while under the direct supervision of the Timer Operator . (This requires a positive indication/ acknowledgement from the Timer Operator to the shooter). The penalty for de-cocking is a Stage Disqualification.8.Once a revolver is cocked, the round under the hammer must be expended in order for it to be returned to a safe condition. Once a rifle is cocked, either the round under the hammer must be expended or the action opened in order for the rifle to be returned to a safe condition. Shotgun shells may be removed without penalty to return the firearm to a safe condition. 7. Allows de-cocking with TO supervision and approval, while 8 says the revolver must have the round expended. I recently did RO I & II refreshers and we were told no de-cocking ever - always expend the round or open the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I recently did RO I & II refreshers and we were told no de-cocking ever - always expend the round or open the action. I'm not fond of never/always. Depends on the situation such as what's the ammo issue that makes the guy not want to pull the trigger? Pulling the trigger isn't necessarily the best option. Besides, how does one "open the action" on a revolver to make it safe? I like the rules as is that allows some discretion by the TO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy the Avenger Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Hey bob I would say a restart is like declaring a broke gun Once you ask for the restart and the harmmer is back you can safely re index it for a restart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 What Grizzly Dave said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Hey bob I would say a restart is like declaring a broke gun Once you ask for the restart and the harmmer is back you can safely re index it for a restart almost, you MUST FIRST get verbal permission from the TO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Shooter starts in correct position with pistol. He tries to cock pistol and finally succeeds in cocking pistol. He asks the RO if he can stop because of possible faulty ammo. At this point, no shot has been fired down range. As an RO INSTRUCTOR, YOU should KNOW the answer to that one. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 almost, you MUST FIRST get verbal permission from the TO!!! +1 What he said. Get VERBAL permission to de-cock. Then re-index and de-cock and you are ready to restart. Takes only a few seconds to have the shooter ready to rock and roll again. If he is really having ammo problems. Then just send him on to the unloading table . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boben Weev Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Pale wolf,I got a phone call fri night from shooters at a state meet.I asked this question so they could see an answer on the wire and just not my word. Ps the shooter was not given a reshoot and was told to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Seems the TO needs an RO Refresher in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 No qualified ROs at a STATE match that might have known the answer? No one on site with a copy of the RO1 or SHB? Did the shooter appeal the call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 The on site, TO, PM, anyone on possee, RO, MD, RO or the appointed appeals committee didn't know? No one else to ask? Gosh, a STATE Match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 How embarrassing. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Not a RESHOOT, but a RESTART. Unless of course the shooter decocks w/o the TO's supervision and permission. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Pale wolf,I got a phone call fri night from shooters at a state meet.I asked this question so they could see an answer on the wire and just not my word. Ps the shooter was not given a reshoot and was told to continue. It took about 10 seconds to narrow down which state match that might have been. Hard to believe that there is no one there who would know the call...then that they need to see it "in writing" on the WIRE over taking the word of an Instructor? If they have internet access to the WIRE...they have access to the rulebooks. INCREDULOUS is the word for the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 no call to be made at the ROs specific direction either decock pistol and re-index it, or fire round into the berm if the TO prefers go to the unloading table, unload, figure out yer ammo and git back in line at the loading table for a reshoot ref RO 1 page 22 Y'know I never really understood the rationale for unloading all the guns when only one is a problem. Deal with the balky one at the ULT, get it re-loaded and go directly back to the LT and get back in line is how we generally do it around here. No real need, safety considerations or otherwise to unload non-malfunctioning guns. Now certainly if for some reason the shooter is not going straight back to the LT then by all means get 'em all empty before leaving the line. My apologies Grizzer if that is how you meant for it to work. But your post just says "unload" so we the readers are left to wonder how many to unload, only the balky gun or all of 'em. I know some places insist all 3 get unloaded in such a situation but why is the question. No real need I do not believe, so long as shooter is going directly back to the LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Y'know I never really understood the rationale for unloading all the guns when only one is a problem. Deal with the balky one at the ULT, get it re-loaded and go directly back to the LT and get back in line is how we generally do it around here. No real need, safety considerations or otherwise to unload non-malfunctioning guns. Now certainly if for some reason the shooter is not going straight back to the LT then by all means get 'em all empty before leaving the line. My apologies Grizzer if that is how you meant for it to work. But your post just says "unload" so we the readers are left to wonder how many to unload, only the balky gun or all of 'em. I know some places insist all 3 get unloaded in such a situation but why is the question. No real need I do not believe, so long as shooter is going directly back to the LT. Hopefuly your talking about "in line" AT the loading table, not in line behind others waiting to get to the table. During the trip back to the table, do you actually walk with loaded guns behind shooter(s) and the TO on the firing line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 We usually let the shooter go to the head of the line at the LT. And yes sometimes they do walk between the TO and the peanut gallery but usually the TO has withdrawn back uprange so no one is usually downrange of the marching shooter and no one is shooting the stage at the time the march commences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I was saying unload them all. Otherwise you are walking behind the TO, current shooter, spotters, and other posse members with loaded guns from the unloading table over to the loading table. I guess in my mind if you leave either table with loaded guns it needs to be at the TO's direction to go to the line, or in the rare case of a malfunction that can't be cleared with the permission of a match official. If all you're going to do is unload offending rounds from one pistol, then the Loading table is where you should go IMO. But depending on club, loading table arrangement, posse size and TO that might not work out. Key think to me is to do what the TO tells you to do, you might ask a quick 'hey can I...' but in the end he's in charge at that point in time. Of course that doesn't mean to blindly do something blatently unsafe... I've seen it handled both ways, at a monthly it's more likely to work to send the shooter back to the loading table, at a larger match it seems to make more sense to go to the ULT, unload everything, then head over and get back in line at the LT. edit - your march back to the on deck at the LT at the direction of the TO works too, just so everyone knows what is going on, and basically the shooter is getting there via the quiet firing line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Hey, Lone Dog, are you at Bordertown this yr? Me & Squeaky are home with my screwed up rt wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Doubleday Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Shooter starts in correct position with pistol. He tries to cock pistol and finally succeeds in cocking pistol. He asks the RO if he can stop because of possible faulty ammo. At this point, no shot has been fired down range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Doubleday Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Shooter starts in correct position with pistol. He tries to cock pistol and finally succeeds in cocking pistol. He asks the RO if he can stop because of possible faulty ammo. At this point, no shot has been fired down range. Boben Weev, I am the embarrassed RO of the situation described. I haven't been shooting or ROing much this year and didn't feel up to being the posse Marshall for our posse, but nobody was provided nor was anybody else on our posse a better option. When Silent Thunder ( good friend of mine or at least was) had the hammer issue I wasn't completely versed as I should be, and since State and above is a no alibi shoot, and the part about can not decock came to mind so when he looked at me and asked...my answer was you're committed. Obviously by the wire spankings I've been taking ( and deserving) I know I didn't "get it right". I did send a posse member to Smokie and the Butterfield gang for a ruling and would have gladly given the reshoot if the had over ridden me, but he came back with the call stands. As soon as I got home I began researching " restarts" and came to the conclusion I messed up and went to Thunder to apologize. Thank goodness he won his B-western category by 1 rank point... I was real close to being a real turd. Thanks to all the knowledgeable RO's and Pale Wolf for the spankings. I probably won't get this wrong the next time. Kid Doubleday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Suggest RO1 refresher for all parties involved. Emphasis on the "job descriptions" on pp. 8-11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Doubleday Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 When I am ready to get back in to consistent shooting and being a timer operator, I will gladly take refresher classes. I have not been competing and as stated only agreed to be the "posse Marshall" because no one else was willing. I wasn't even going to shoot the State match, signing up Wed prior to Fri start. As a retired HS coach, I know the importance of quality officials who study rules and attend clinics where available. I was the equivalent of "the umpire didn't show up" so you get someone out of the stand with a little experience. Kid Doubleday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Hey, Lone Dog, are you at Bordertown this yr? Me & Squeaky are home with my screwed up rt wing. No I boycott all matches with targets closer than SASS recommendations. Actually I didn't make any big matches this year but am hoping to make a comeback in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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