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Jess Money

Perplexed

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The title of this thread is indicative of what I am.

 

I have a pair of New Model Vaquero's that I've done work on myself and I'm happy to say they feel as good as anyone else's slicked pieces I've tried. The guns print at point of aim on paper two handed. HOWEVER, when I shoot at speed two handed, I miss targets I know I shouldn't be missing. It's frustrating to the point of saying "damn it" a bunch of times, to say the least!

 

Today at our monthly match I really became disgusted and switched over to Duelist. I was much slower but I was shooting as fast as I can go, and excluding the one FTF because of a primer problem, when shooting Duelist I had zero, as in 0, misses. And it was the same sight picture as with two handed style.

 

Too late to help with a decent score, naturally, but perhaps someone, or maybe many someone's, call enlighten me as to what my problem is and what I can do to correct it. Rifle and shotgun work well within my capabilities with hits and misses, but.... the misses with the revolvers are making me bite empty brass cases when I shoot two handed!

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Very easy to flinch and 'push' with a two handed grip.

W/duelist-one finds themselves watch'n the sights more closely.

 

Duelist is coolest--

LG

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LG is right about flinching and pushing with a two-handed grip. Sounds to me like you might have a trigger control problem. If the front sight, or the barrel itself, of your Vaquero will allow you to balance a dime on it, try dry firing. If the dime falls off when the hammer falls, you have a trigger squeeze problem. You'll notice the front sight dip if you're jerking your trigger. You may also, with a two-handed style of shooting, be applying uneven pressure with one hand or the other. For example, if you're pushing with the strong hand more than you're pulling with the weak hand, you will cause your shots to be low. With a little practice and concentration, you should be able to dry fire and never drop the dime. If you can dry fire and refrain from dropping the dime, you should see your hits become more consistent. -- GIT

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I'm slip hammering two handed so the control is pretty good as indicated by strikes on dump targets.

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When you're saying "two handed", you mean one gun, two hands? Not two hands two guns as in gunfighter style?

 

I'd try getting a big piece of cardboard and make a small aiming spot in the middle. Shooting that will record where the shots are going and maybe you'll find an "ah haa!" moment.

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I can flinch double well with two hands!!!!

 

go back to cock, pull trigger each time and see if that is any better....

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I can flinch double well with two hands!!!!

 

go back to cock, pull trigger each time and see if that is any better....

 

 

+1

 

Stop the slip hammering as see if that helps.

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I'm slip hammering two handed so the control is pretty good as indicated by strikes on dump targets.

If your control was all that good-You wouldn't have started this thread. ;)

Your concentration is higher on the dump target, cause you realize there's a shooter issue.

IF your misses are low-That's a flinch. If high, you push'n the gun try'n to get ahead of the recoil--

What cal and where are most of your misses go'n?

LG

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The solution to your frustration is simple: SHOOT DUELIST! :lol:

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Front sight...rear sight? On target or off target. Don't look past the sights at the target.......sights tend to blend in with the target. Concentration is your friend.

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I often have more misses than a beauty pageant, especially when convince myself to shoot GF.

Each shooter is different, but my misses are due to pulling the gun off target before getting the trigger pulled. I have a good sight-picture and then start moving the gun before getting the trigger back. I rarely miss the last target or the first shot on a double-tap.

Don't know if this helps, but flinching is not the only cause of misses.

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I shoot revolvers better with one hand, and auto's better with two hands.

 

I don't know why. But... Knowing that I do.

 

I'm now shooting DD, instead of Cowboy, and missing less. Maybe.

 

Still having fun though.

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when I get into problems like this and it happens often. I hang LARGE piece of cardboard behind a set of small 8in plates that I practice on once and a while. generally find I shoot low when trying to race. but everyone is different but the main thing is find out where you miss more than where you hit. jusy idle thoughts of an idle fellow GW

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you could just put paper plates on a backer to please range rules but hell I just love the ring of the steel GW

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I shot two handed for years and when I started shooting duelist my misses went away and I shoot clean matches consistently. I'm slower but having more fun. IMHO it wasn't the guns it was the shooter.

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If your control was all that good-You wouldn't have started this thread. ;)

Your concentration is higher on the dump target, cause you realize there's a shooter issue.

IF your misses are low-That's a flinch. If high, you push'n the gun try'n to get ahead of the recoil--

What cal and where are most of your misses go'n?

LG

No reason NOT to start the thread, LG. I'm looking for someone who may have experienced exactly what I'm currently having the problem with. I could certainly use some help. Strange, isn't it, but the dumps are POA. Spotters tell me I'm missing other targets low; or high and to the left or low and to the right or vice versa to all that. No rhyme nor reason for it at all. I'm shooting .38 cal with 125 grain bullets and just a grain above recommended base load for the powder I use. Some recoil but not excessive and it's easy to deal with.

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Stop slip hammering. You are getting ahead of yourself and looking ahead to the next target before you have successfully engaged the current one. Look away for even a milisecond and you POA will drift. On the dump target you are focused on it and maintain your sight picture rather than looking ahead to the next target.

 

I Tried slip hammering when I first started and found out that my accuracy sucked and rounds were all over the place. It takes A LOT of practice to get the hang of slip hammering and I am still not convinced that it is that much better than learning to ride the trigger properly. I will admit that on occasion I will slip hammer on dump targets but only on dump targets.

 

With a miss worth 5 seconds you can cock and pull the trigger each time and still be way faster in the long run than slip hammering and missing.

 

The reason shooting duellist is working is that you are more focused on all the mechanics and that makes you slow down just enough that you are not getting ahead of the targets and are maintaining your sight picture.

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When was the last time you had an eye exam?

IMO-your try'n to hard and rush'n your shots. AKA-spray and pray.

Also, either your grip is inconsistent OR the gun is moving in your hands.

STOP the slip hammer deal and see what happens.

Best of luck,

LG

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With all due respect - stop telling yourself you are using the same sight picture two handed as you are one handed - you are not.

If you had the same sight picture - the rounds would hit in the same place.

 

So since we KNOW something is different in the two handed equation, lets eliminate variables.

Does it happen if you shoot two handed at the SAME pace as shooting duelist?

Does it happen if you fire each shot via a trigger pull?

How slow are your hammers falling?

Is it possible, you have a sight picture two handed when you pull the trigger and pull the gun off of the target BETWEEN trigger pull and hammer fall?

 

Until you identify what YOU do differently between your two handed shooting and your Duelist shooting - it is going to be difficult to identify what causes the different results between the two.

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Want to discover how you're flinching? or if you are?

 

While practicing, spin the cylinders after loading so you don't know where the empty is. You'll see what you're doing when it comes up. Of course, you'll be ready and concentrating the first couple of times so you'll need to do it more than once, but it's a good way to show yourself what you're doing, especially if you don't think you're the cause of those flyers.

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I can flinch double well with two hands!!!!

 

go back to cock, pull trigger each time and see if that is any better....

 

 

 

 

+1

 

Stop the slip hammering as see if that helps.

 

 

Stop slip hammering. You are getting ahead of yourself and looking ahead to the next target before you have successfully engaged the current one. Look away for even a milisecond and you POA will drift. On the dump target you are focused on it and maintain your sight picture rather than looking ahead to the next target.

 

I Tried slip hammering when I first started and found out that my accuracy sucked and rounds were all over the place. It takes A LOT of practice to get the hang of slip hammering and I am still not convinced that it is that much better than learning to ride the trigger properly. I will admit that on occasion I will slip hammer on dump targets but only on dump targets.

 

With a miss worth 5 seconds you can cock and pull the trigger each time and still be way faster in the long run than slip hammering and missing.

 

The reason shooting duellist is working is that you are more focused on all the mechanics and that makes you slow down just enough that you are not getting ahead of the targets and are maintaining your sight picture.

 

I dry fire at hanging paper plates on my shop wall and I do look ahead to the next plate when engaging the previous one and the method is carrying over to live fire at a match. That and slip hammering must be causing my grief. Today I'll start practicing dry firing two handed without slip hammering and concentrate on trigger control.

 

As you can read form the other posts above, "..STOP SLIP HAMMERING.." is the recurring suggestion from many of you. But I think Sedalia Dave brought out the main reason I'm really having this problem. Thanks Dave and thanks to everyone for all your replies and suggestions. It's great to be able to bring your woes to a place for advice from helpful pards.

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"Follow-thru" is just as important in shooting as it is in golf, tennis or the hammer throw. If your follow-thru isn't consistent, you're missing. Do you shoot with both eyes open, or just one? As both my eyes are nearly equal, and in a former life I was a bulls-eye shooter, I HAVE to shoot with one closed, otherwise I'll miss at least half the targets. When I do the "dominate-eye" test, nearly half the time I end up with a different eye!

 

You might not be flinching, but for dern sure you're not following thru when you shoot two-handed.

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Another good point, Griff. I'll have to take the eye situation into account when I begin again. I usually shoot both eyes open but even that may have to change.

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Another good point, Griff. I'll have to take the eye situation into account when I begin again. I usually shoot both eyes open but even that may have to change.

I am right handed-left eye dominant. I use both eyes with HG's.

Do you wear glasses?

Which gun gives you the most issue-strong side or cross draw?

LG

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I wear glasses but not to shoot. You asked previously and I had an eye exam June 16th this year. Nothing required to change current lens. I'm right handed and right eye dominant and misses are from either revolver. I don't miss every time, mind you, but usually two or three out of ten which is unacceptable. I'm going to quit slip hammering and devote more time to hitting the targets than to shooting for speed.

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I'm slip hammering two handed so the control is pretty good as indicated by strikes on dump targets.

YEP....pull trigger ONCE and work hammer

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Shooting is shooting. Five fundamentals. Stance, Grip, Sight Alignment, Site Picture, Trigger Control. Shooting at speed is no different than shooting groups. You have to do everything in a compressed amount of time and accept less than perfect results.

 

Go the range and shoot groups on paper. Pay attention to what you see and feel when you're getting good groups. You need to see the same thing when shooting at speed.

 

In your case trigger control is really hammer control.

 

More often than not you should know where you misses are going. High low left right.

 

Stan

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I wear glasses but not to shoot. You asked previously and I had an eye exam June 16th this year. Nothing required to change current lens. I'm right handed and right eye dominant and misses are from either revolver. I don't miss every time, mind you, but usually two or three out of ten which is unacceptable. I'm going to quit slip hammering and devote more time to hitting the targets than to shooting for speed.

Please post what changes you notice?

LG

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I'll be certain to do that with a later update, LG. Maybe this will benefit some others with similar problems.

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The solution to your frustration is simple: SHOOT DUELIST! :lol:

Hey Beartrap... I like your remedy.... :)

 

Snakebite

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If there's three things to focus on when shooting a gun it's sight alignment, trigger control, and follow-through. Of those three, I personally think sight alignment is the least important, at least for the sort of up-close fast-action shooting done in this sport.

 

The others have likely already hit on the point, or at least close enough to get you where you need to go. I just wanted to chime in and say when you do your dry fire practice, spend a little time being very methodical and really nail down your follow through. Get good enough in dry-fire that you can line up the sights, squeeze the trigger, let the hammer fall, and the gun should just hang there for a second without moving, as if it was propped up on a rest or something. Practice that sort of follow-through slowly for awhile so it becomes a little more natural when you're shooting at speed.

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