Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 ..or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Funny as hell, and equally frightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Yeah, well I believe it is wrong. Flat out theft. Convicted of a crime? Even commiting a crime? Different story. Since when is carrying cash a crime? And how in he^^ does a policeman get to take your money and send you on down the road? And not even a hint of proof to a judge, just a "I think you're carrying to much money and I want it" Where is the ACLU when you need them? Theft by cop, theft by government or theft by some person with a gun on a street corner....all the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Funny as hell, and equally frightening.Exactly GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 It's not just money, and it's been going on for a looooong time. When I was 18 ('73) I took a "handgun safety class" given jointly by the Game and Fish and the Road Patrol. A Road Patrol sergeant had brought some extra guns, for folks that didn't have one of their own, for the class. He held one of them up and explained how he managed to come by it. Florida law, at the time, said you needed a permit to carry a gun (open or concealed didn't matter), unless you were HUNTING, FISHING, CAMPING OR TARGET SHOOTING, or going to or from. He took it from a man in a bar at one in the morning. Man said he was on the way home from target practice, and stopped for a beer. The sergeant did not believe him. He didn't arrest him - he just took the gun. And he didn't turn the gun in - he just kept it. That, to me, would be grand theft. But he had a badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Still theft, badge or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Plasters, SASS#60943 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I did not find it amusing at all! My blood pressure went thru the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 That episode in on now. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jittery Jim Jonah, SASS #64913L Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Sounds like the laws need to be changed in those locations..... In California forfeiture occurs only when a person is arrested, charged, and convicted of a crime AND the assets can be identified and linked to the crime. We have property, assets, and vehicles that have been stored for years before the cases are resolved. Heck we had a Ford Explorer that was stored for almost six years before all the appeals were over and the person went to prison. Most of ours are drug related..... We have laws that require specific actions and those whose property is seized have specific rights under California law. For once it sounds like California (or at least Westminster) is not such a bad place to live...... JJJ-D :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I did not find it amusing at all! My blood pressure went thru the roof. +10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Sometimes Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I use and do civil forfeitures ALL the time. We we come across a carload of suspects with a trunk full of iPhones, iPads, electronics, cash and hand fulls of stolen re-encoded credit cards with YOUR credit card number re-encoded onto the magnetic stripe, AND nobody in the car knows anything or will say anything. I seize the cash and electronics if I have Probable Cause to show they are proceeds of credit card crimes. In civil forfeiture, those that I seized it from can come into court and show a judge that they were legitimately purchased. If satisfied, they are returned. In 99% of the time, they never choose to appear. Once seized, we return the cash and electronics to the banks who issued the credit cards and suffered the loss, if interested. What's the alternative? Let the credit card crook do his 90 days in jail and let him keep the cash and electronics? By law, you can't secure evidence and then keep it. You must follow Asset Forfeiture procedures. Always some failures or bad examples but I have good success using it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoken D Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Me and my prosecutor tried it one time. Arrested a guy for his 30th DWI and was driving a new Jeep he purchased that day with cash. We were trying to seize the jeep since felony charges were filed on the DWI. As it turned out our seizure law was written for drugs and did not include DWI. So, had to release the vehicle the next day after the arrest. We got the law changed to include DWI's etc. The guy got four years. When we got guys with large amounts of cash we would seize it for Uncle Sam to take taxes out of it. The rest was returned, if they showed up, and after filing taxes that year may be returned depending on the filing. That one was always fun and they hated it. Just what do you think the guy was doing with $25,000 cash anyway. Yea, he said on his way to California, didn't even know where Kalifornia was on a map. I hated stopping good citizens, waste of time. Wanted to stop scum and lock em up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 This medium allows information from so many places to be shared so quickly and convincingly that these travesties are being flushed out; the perpetrators embarrassed, sued and forced out of positions of power; the regs are being changed; the tyrants are being filmed. From Syria to Ferguson people are recording, posting and rising up against everything from Jihadi John to a riot/ protest turned police state. The knife cuts the other way, too. Look at the MO kid that fired 3 shots at the cop; his family tried to claim he was unarmed; Michael Brown was filmed while the witness recorded audio about how he charged the cop. These are truly amazing times. The status is anything but 'quo'. It is being turned on its head worldwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 I did not find it amusing at all! My blood pressure went thru the roof. The information I didn't either.... The presentation I did. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkshaw Fred SASS #36811 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Yeah, well I believe it is wrong. Flat out theft. Convicted of a crime? Even commiting a crime? Different story. Since when is carrying cash a crime? And how in he^^ does a policeman get to take your money and send you on down the road? And not even a hint of proof to a judge, just a "I think you're carrying to much money and I want it" Where is the ACLU when you need them? Theft by cop, theft by government or theft by some person with a gun on a street corner....all the same thing. I seized $48,000+ once from a lad who had no ID and a cash one way ticket (prior to 9/11) carrying the money in zip lock baggies that had LOTS of powdery residue still in them, enough residue that a drug dog made a solid hit on it. He would not say that the money was his, only that he "was in possession of it". SO not knowing who it belonged to, we seized it and gave him a receipt with instructions to have the rightful owner claim it---someone called and said it came from a real estate sale--they were told to provide proof and we would return the money----never even got another phone call. I KNOW this, like anything else can be abused, but to allow a drug dealer to keep the proceeds from his illegal activity is not right either. Think if you were able to illegally make 5-6 MILLON dollars and only serve 12-18 months in prison, NOT a good idea, but a pretty good wage. So if the seizure is done as proceeds of illegal activity I see no issue. As far as the deputy in Louisiana 'taking' the gun---that does reek of theft by threat---'either give up your gun or I put you in jail'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hawkshaw, what you are describing may or may not be legal or moral or ethical. I don't know. What we are talking about is, "Oh. I see you have a BUNCH of money. The only reason to have a BUNCH of money is to buy drugs. Buying drugs is bad, so I am going to confiscate your money. You don't have any drugs, so I will not arrest you(count yourself lucky), but I am going to confiscate your BUNCH of money, because I think you might be using it illegally. Have a nice day. Drive careful now, y'hear." That is grand theft, and since the cop in question was wearing a gun, also armed robbery. The lawyers might not agree. The judges might not agree. For sure the police departments that are doing it don't agree. Does not change the fact that it is armed robbery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I seized $48,000+ once from a lad who had no ID and a cash one way ticket (prior to 9/11) carrying the money in zip lock baggies that had LOTS of powdery residue still in them, enough residue that a drug dog made a solid hit on it. He would not say that the money was his, only that he "was in possession of it". SO not knowing who it belonged to, we seized it and gave him a receipt with instructions to have the rightful owner claim it---someone called and said it came from a real estate sale--they were told to provide proof and we would return the money----never even got another phone call. I KNOW this, like anything else can be abused, but to allow a drug dealer to keep the proceeds from his illegal activity is not right either. Think if you were able to illegally make 5-6 MILLON dollars and only serve 12-18 months in prison, NOT a good idea, but a pretty good wage. So if the seizure is done as proceeds of illegal activity I see no issue. As far as the deputy in Louisiana 'taking' the gun---that does reek of theft by threat---'either give up your gun or I put you in jail'.... Hey, you have evidence you can present to a judge to justify seizure? No problem. Therte has to be someone other than the police involved in the seizure, not a "you have to much cash on you, it MUST be for illegal reasons, so I am taking it" kind of thing. A vehicle, boat, or plane used in illegal activity? No problem. But not, say, a car stopped for speeding. There should be well defined areas of things subject to seizure, and well defined methods of seizure. And this should especially include any level of government from the dog catcher through the police and FBI up to the military. You can't justify the seizure to an outside authority, to bad. An arrest has to be justified by evidence of an actual crime, why should the taking of my, or your, property be any different? The bad guy does walk sometimes because it has to be poven that he did it. This protects me, this protects you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 The forfeiture laws are designed to deny CRIMINALS access to their ill gotten gains. And it works very well. Have there been abuses? Sure. I don't know how many times the law has been abused where law abiding citizens were deprived of their property but I'll bet it's a pretty small number. But I guess we could throw the baby out with the bath water. BTW I had an uncle who was a corrupt cop in Detroit. So I guess I am too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Plasters, SASS#60943 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I'm throwing in with Alpo and Mad Dog Jack on this one! I thought I could leave it alone but just kept getting more and more pi$$ed thinking about it. That a cop can ask someone how much money they have and then decide it's too much for lawful purposes sucks!! We have real courts with judges and juries that will decide guilt and punishment not some singular individual and I don't give a rats a$$ how much special training he has had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I'm throwing in with Alpo and Mad Dog Jack on this one! I thought I could leave it alone but just kept getting more and more pi$$ed thinking about it. That a cop can ask someone how much money they have and then decide it's too much for lawful purposes sucks!! We have real courts with judges and juries that will decide guilt and punishment not some singular individual and I don't give a rats a$$ how much special training he has had. It simply does not work that way. If someone does that he is in violation of the law and should be hammered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 With all due respect, if an officer asks me how much money I have, I will tell him it is none of his business! If he asks or even demands that I allow him to search my vehicle I will demand a warrant and that the watch commander and an independent law enforcement officer be present during the search. In the meantime I will contact my lawyer and the US marshal's office in the area. I will also demand that I and my attorney be present when the vehicle is searched and that any damage be repaired if nothing is found. I was stopped three times in my life and searched so far. I have agreed to have my vehicle searched twice and both times I was treated badly and they left after the search with my vehicle and my belongings scattered all over the side of the road. The last time I was stopped and the officer demanded to search my car, (a new rental that I was the first driver of) I demanded a warrant. We waited beside I 70 in Missouri for two hours for another policeman to bring a warrant and then for the dog and the cops to disassemble the car and check it out. When they found nothing, the original officer lit into me about wasting his time. I fired back that they had better put the car back like it was or I would file charges in federal court for damages. By this time it was three AM and since I didn't even have a change of clothes in the car, (I mean this vehicle had nothing but what I was wearing and gasoline in it besides my physical person) I was angry and said I was calling the US Marshal's office. I guess they thought I was serious, (I was) because they put the back seat and the stuff in the trunk back in. "Why did you make me get a warrant?!?" the cop asked. "Because I wanted a record of this stop and search," I replied, "and because that is my right." I got back in my rental car and drove away. These seizures of property may help drug interdictions and the like, but they are becoming more frequently abused of late. The little snippet they showed in the posted video of actions here in Tennessee is just a tiny portion of what is happening out there. Look at the guy from Florida who was detained in Maryland because he had a Florida carry permit!! He was detained and his family terrorized by some overzealous officers. There should be an easy and formidable avenue of legal and monetary recovery when this sort of thing occurs, and without some major machinations by the abused being required. My dad was a cop! A damned good cop! He's doing loop the loops in his grave over the way these idiots are abusing power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Scatterbrain Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 When they found nothing, the original officer lit into me about wasting his time. Yeah, YOU wasted HIS time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 With all due respect, if an officer asks me how much money I have, I will tell him it is none of his business! I would suggest you just say that is personal and you're not required to tell him. Then ask what his probable cause is. Cops doing something wrong know when they don't have any pc and they get nervous if you inow it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Slim Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/10/11/cash-seizures-fuel-police-spending/ B Slim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I wouldn't go so far as to get rid of property seizures, but the laws definitely need to be tightened up on them. For example, if you don't have enough to charge them with a crime, it shouldn't even be an option. You also shouldn't be able to take and hold something for years awaiting a decision unless it can be rightfully considered evidence of that crime. I don't watch videos, what was going on in the one in the original post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Many years ago , I used to transport VERY LARGE sums of cash and pretty much untraceable bearer bonds this would have ended very badly for ALL involved , I would not be on the hook for what was taken without cuase and due process CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I still often carry large sums of cash. Sometimes it is mine or it's payment for a band appearance which I will divide with the other members of the band when we get back home. Sometimes it is moneys I have collected for someone else. In either case, law enforcement has no claim to it and I will NOT be bullied out of it! In my previous post, I described searches that I was subjected to. I learned that I was the victim of profiling. I don't recall all of the criteria, but I have long hair and a beard, I was driving a rental car, I was towing a utility trailer in two of the instances, I was at least two states away from where my tag, (license plate) was issued, on two occasions I was traveling with another person who had similar features, (hair, beard, casual dress), and I was doing all of these other things while traveling along a major artery where drug traffic is frequent. Several of my LEO friends have told me about the flags that set some of these searches into motion, and I now keep people on standby to back me up if this happens to me again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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