Now a question about the .223 and 5.56 round

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Looking at some ballistic info, looks like you can load that .223 Remington load to some

pretty blistering speeds down the tube. Any body got any info on barrel wear on chrome

and steel lined barrels?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Those loads are throat eaters.

LG

[Utah Bob #35998]

Barrel wear on chrome is less than on stainless but, for long range shooting, stainless is more accurate.

Competitive shooters usualy swap barrels at about 10,000 rds, but for normal shooters (and below normal like me) you could get 30,000 out of a steel barrel and 40k from chrome. Accuracy will drop some after 5-8000 rds. And of course rapid fire zombie killing will overheat the steel barrel and cause faster wear. Always let it cool down between mags unless ISIS is comin up the driveway.

Chrome is easier to clean and more forgiving of abuse.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Steel is less expensive?

 

I would suppose that being an increment gun like the AR platform is, a barrel replacement

would not be all that difficult?

[Utah Bob #35998]

Steel is less expensive?

 

I would suppose that being an increment gun like the AR platform is, a barrel replacement

would not be all that difficult?

Not difficult at all. The whole gun is a do-it-yourselfer's dream.

[Boon Doggle]

Not difficult at all. The whole gun is a do-it-yourselfer's dream.

 

Not to mention a money pit.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Doit Yourselfus is Latin for Money Pit.

[Echeconnee Drifter]

For regular old blasting, you can sometimes find pulled military surplus bullets and once-fired brass for cheap. Grafs sometimes has these by the thousand. I like IMR 3031 and the 62gr SS109 bullet for plinking.

 

For personal defense, get a 50 or 55 grain varmint bullet. The Hornady V-MAX and Spire Points are inexpensive and excellent for this. I like to load these to blistering speeds with AA2230. Accurate publishes 62,000 PSI data if you want to load 5.56 to its full potential.

 

For whitetail deer and hogs, the 60 grain Nosler Partition is excellent.

 

There are a lot of powders that work great for the .223. Varget is an old standby that gives good performance while keeping pressures under maximum. Just be careful with stick powders like Varget and 3031 'cause the powder can back up and overflow the case from time to time. CFE 223 has been excellent for me. I'm not sure about the claims regarding carbon fouling, but if you can find this powder it does produce accurate loads and high speeds.

[J-BAR #18287]

The Missus just won a DPMS Oracle .223 in a raffle.

 

I told her she is now in charge of home defense.

 

She said she knows what I am getting for Christmas.

 

Life can be very good at times.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Well, after looking around, my ardor for the 556 has cooled and I am no longer fumbling in the dark.

I am still fumbling in the daylight but not as much. I can not find the new Ruger AR 556 to handle,

They are in short supply. I found a Colt but I am not sure about it.

Still looking for the S&W MP.

 

Really don't think I would be any kind of help in a SHTF situation, at least at my age. I do have some other nice gifts for the ZOMBIES, but they are all virtual items.

 

Are ZOMBIES virtual?

 

 

Start up ammunition is also an issue. Reloading is the way to go, but I have not decided that new brass and bullets or loaded ammunition for starters. It would also call for new dies, pilots and etc.

So many things to consider.

 

And then there was that new shotgun I was looking at.........

 

 

HELLO, my name is Badger and I am a gunaholic.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Wally World has very good prices on .223/5.56mm ammo.

LG

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

But I don't have a rifle in that chamber, Lumpy.

 

And it would have to be virtual ammunition for the ZOMBIES.

[Echeconnee Drifter]

Well, after looking around, my ardor for the 556 has cooled and I am no longer fumbling in the dark.

I am still fumbling in the daylight but not as much. I can not find the new Ruger AR 556 to handle,

They are in short supply. I found a Colt but I am not sure about it.

Still looking for the S&W MP.

 

I haven't held one of the new Ruger 5.56 rifles yet, but their SR556 looks really nice (if you can afford the price tag). IMHO, Colts are overpriced. They get that price only because Colt makes the military's M4 carbine. Were it not for that fact, the Colts would cost no more than any other AR15.

 

The Smith & Wesson rifles are really nice. They have one of the few really good .22 rimfire ARs if you're at all interested in that.

 

Another good manufacturer of mid-range AR15s is Stag Arms. They're not as big, but the guns I've handled from them were very well put together, and they offer some sort of life-time barrel warranty which may be of interest if you plan on shooting many thousands of rounds through the gun.

 

Start up ammunition is also an issue. Reloading is the way to go, but I have not decided that new brass and bullets or loaded ammunition for starters. It would also call for new dies, pilots and etc.

 

Reloading the .223 is a pain, mainly due to all the case prep. It's also not nearly as economical as I expected it to be. A lot of brass gets lost and what doesn't, generally doesn't last through more than 5 or 6 reloads. It tends to get dented up during ejection and it's such a high-pressure cartridge that it stretches a lot. However, with reloading you do get to chose what sort of components you use, and there's a lot to chose from. A lot of powders are suitable for the .223, and there's a ton of bullets to chose from. You can load it with cheap FMJ for plinking, light ballistic tips for varmit shooting, and heavier limited expansion bullets for deer. The cartridge is quite versatile on a wide variety of targets out to about 200 yards.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Thank you for your post, Drifter. I share you observations, or at least as much as I have experienced.

I find that my virtual 1911, all my guns are virtual guns, , has a tendecy to throw brass all over the place.

I find that troublesome. Same with my virtual 11-87. I am much more comforatable with my virtual Bounty

Hunter that has EXTRACTORS, and not EJECTORS. I am certain that an AR would also be guilty of doing so. I would hate to spend a large part of my range time policing brass.

 

As far as the rifles go, I am not a big fan of Colt either and it hurts to pay for a brand name. But that said,

the Colt AR that I looked at was not all that much more than the Ruger, and right in line with the posted

price of the S&W. But I am a newbie, so I guess they could sell me a bill of goods quite easy.

 

 

[jrswanson1]

As far as the rifles go, I am not a big fan of Colt either and it hurts to pay for a brand name. But that said,

the Colt AR that I looked at was not all that much more than the Ruger, and right in line with the posted

price of the S&W. But I am a newbie, so I guess they could sell me a bill of goods quite easy.

 

 

 

 

Colt is the gold standard for AR-15s. Not as pricey as boutique rifles, but you get mil-spec parts in them, unlike the lower priced ARs. And they do all of the required testing, which is why they last longer. I'm not posting "the list."

 

With that said, if you're looking for a quality M4 style rifle, get a BCM. They've built a good reputation on their rifles and carbines.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Colt is the gold standard for AR-15s. Not as pricey as boutique rifles, but you get mil-spec parts in them, unlike the lower priced ARs. And they do all of the required testing, which is why they last longer. I'm not posting "the list."

 

With that said, if you're looking for a quality M4 style rifle, get a BCM. They've built a good reputation on their rifles and carbines.

Good folks at BCM. A lot of vets. They make very high quality products.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/aboutus.asp

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

This outfit is also very good to deal with.

Their CS is top-notch!

http://www.primaryarms.com/

 

LG

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Well, after looking around, my ardor for the 556 has cooled and I am no longer fumbling in the dark.

I am still fumbling in the daylight but not as much. I can not find the new Ruger AR 556 to handle,

They are in short supply. I found a Colt but I am not sure about it.

Still looking for the S&W MP.

 

Really don't think I would be any kind of help in a SHTF situation, at least at my age. I do have some other nice gifts for the ZOMBIES, but they are all virtual items.

 

Are ZOMBIES virtual?

 

 

Start up ammunition is also an issue. Reloading is the way to go, but I have not decided that new brass and bullets or loaded ammunition for starters. It would also call for new dies, pilots and etc.

So many things to consider.

 

And then there was that new shotgun I was looking at.........

 

 

HELLO, my name is Badger and I am a gunaholic.

 

Please explain what you are 'not sure about' on the Colt over the S&W or any other AR out there.

 

GG ~

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

 

 

Colt is the gold standard for AR-15s. Not as pricey as boutique rifles, but you get mil-spec parts in them, unlike the lower priced ARs. And they do all of the required testing, which is why they last longer. I'm not posting "the list."

 

With that said, if you're looking for a quality M4 style rifle, get a BCM. They've built a good reputation on their rifles and carbines.

 

Indeed - I researched this issue tooth and nail. Not bashing any other AR products, but had to go with the Colt for my first one. Wanted to get it right the first time and figured I couldn't go wrong with what I chose.

 

My next AR will be one that I build....but again, that will take a lot of research first.

 

GG ~

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

 

Please explain what you are 'not sure about' on the Colt over the S&W or any other AR out there.

 

GG ~

Well, it was a cursory review of it sitting on the counter. The store clerk did not have a lot of

knowledge about it and I believe that it was a used gun. Nothing wrong with a used gun, but

one should know how it was used. I didn't even pick it up because I knew that I was not going

to buy it that day and wanted to look ahead to others, if for no other reason than compairason.

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

I've had great success with BL-C(2) in my 5.56 rounds loading ss109 bullets with steel penetrators. Most indoor ranges won't allow them so they seem to be pretty easy to find right now. Make great coyote rounds and the boat tail makes them easier to load than 55gr's when using a lower capacity press like a Turret or single stage (though loading enough 223/5.56 to have fun with on a single stage would cause me to pull my hair out)

 

Biggest down side to either 223 or 5.56 is that they're so darn fun to shoot out of an AR I can't seem to keep them loaded for long.

[Utah Bob #35998]

I don't do a lot of reloading for the AR. Prices on ammo have come down so much I can afford a stockpile of factory stuff. I tinker with .223 loads in case of a prairie dog attack. They're moving closer to the property over the past few years.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Well, it was a cursory review of it sitting on the counter. The store clerk did not have a lot of

knowledge about it and I believe that it was a used gun. Nothing wrong with a used gun, but

one should know how it was used. I didn't even pick it up because I knew that I was not going

to buy it that day and wanted to look ahead to others, if for no other reason than compairason.

 

A 'used' gun? ...ok.....I thought we were talkin' a comparison of 'new' guns.

 

GG

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Back with more questions.

 

I called several gun shops and nobody has the new Ruger AE 556 in stock.

 

I guess I will keep looking.

 

Back to my question. I am looking at the amminution.

I would want a chamber for the 556 round but I am bewildered

by the information out there about both the 556 and the .223.

 

Does anybody shoot steel case bullets and have anything good to say

about them, other than the price?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

The AR platform was never built with the idea of steel cased ammo.

I will NOT use steel cased loads in any of my AR's.

 

Good outfit to deal with here. I just rec'd 2K of these--

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=1650&name=Prvi+Partizan+PPU+.223%2f5.56x45+M193+55grn

 

Don't just limit yourself to Ruger.

LG

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Back with more questions.

 

I called several gun shops and nobody has the new Ruger AE 556 in stock.

 

I guess I will keep looking.

 

Back to my question. I am looking at the amminution.

I would want a chamber for the 556 round but I am bewildered

by the information out there about both the 556 and the .223.

 

Does anybody shoot steel case bullets and have anything good to say

about them, other than the price?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZB3UfG960

 

GG ~

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Thanks Lumpy. I am not tied to anything right now. I am just looking for the best deal and rifle I can find.

 

I seldom get in a hurry when I am buying something. I have ruled out nothing. I would like to see the Ruger offering and hold it before I wet myself, and buy it.

 

But as I said early on, I know little or nothing about the rifles and their functions.

Thanks to you guys, I am learning.

 

Same goes for the ammunition. One of my main concerns is my love for the 30-06 but changes in marketing have reduced the availability of ammunition, and reloading components. Fortunately, I have a supply of Virtual ammunition on hand, with enough virtual brass to reload for the rest of my lifetime.

 

BACK TO THE 556/.223

 

Somewhere I learned that the steel cases were coated with a lacquer to prevent rust, and that the lacquer would cause the AR to jam. That seems reasonable to me. If that is true, the only advantage to steel cases would be that you would not have to police your brass, But you should, if for nothing more than courtesy to your fellow shooters. I suspect that a lot of the younger shooters do not. Perhaps a jammed rifle is their reward.

 

I found one source that is offering Milsurp Ammo to their members, but it looks to be match grade.

I have not found a good source of milsurp for plinking but I am still looking.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Thanks Lumpy. I am not tied to anything right now. I am just looking for the best deal and rifle I can find.

 

I seldom get in a hurry when I am buying something. I have ruled out nothing. I would like to see the Ruger offering and hold it before I wet myself, and buy it.

 

But as I said early on, I know little or nothing about the rifles and their functions.

Thanks to you guys, I am learning.

 

Same goes for the ammunition. One of my main concerns is my love for the 30-06 but changes in marketing have reduced the availability of ammunition, and reloading components. Fortunately, I have a supply of Virtual ammunition on hand, with enough virtual brass to reload for the rest of my lifetime.

 

BACK TO THE 556/.223

 

Somewhere I learned that the steel cases were coated with a lacquer to prevent rust, and that the lacquer would cause the AR to jam. That seems reasonable to me. If that is true, the only advantage to steel cases would be that you would not have to police your brass, But you should, if for nothing more than courtesy to your fellow shooters. I suspect that a lot of the younger shooters do not. Perhaps a jammed rifle is their reward.

 

I found one source that is offering Milsurp Ammo to their members, but it looks to be match grade.

I have not found a good source of milsurp for plinking but I am still looking.

 

Guess you didn't watch the video in my last post.

 

GG ~

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Sorry Gunner, I must have missed it.

 

I just finished watching it. Apparently I was misled about the lacquer on the cases.

I do see a down side, in that it is not reloadable. I am not a shooter that goes to the range

and bangs off several hundred rounds at a sitting. I suspect that the AR platforms are at

odds with that mind set. A typical day at the shooting bench, for me, would be perhaps a

hundred rounds down range, maybe two if I am really depressed.

 

The guy in the video did mention accuracy. He did not give a lot of detail on that subject.

I suppose that if you are a spray and pray type shooter, it would be less of an issue.

I am old school and of the opinion that if you put the first shot where you want you

seldom need the next 29. It is nice to have the other 29 in the mag, as back up in a

SHTF situation, but under those circumstances I would want the best ammo I could get.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Sorry Gunner, I must have missed it.

 

I just finished watching it. Apparently I was misled about the lacquer on the cases.

I do see a down side, in that it is not reloadable. I am not a shooter that goes to the range

and bangs off several hundred rounds at a sitting. I suspect that the AR platforms are at

odds with that mind set. A typical day at the shooting bench, for me, would be perhaps a

hundred rounds down range, maybe two if I am really depressed.

 

The guy in the video did mention accuracy. He did not give a lot of detail on that subject.

I suppose that if you are a spray and pray type shooter, it would be less of an issue.

I am old school and of the opinion that if you put the first shot where you want you

seldom need the next 29. It is nice to have the other 29 in the mag, as back up in a

SHTF situation, but under those circumstances I would want the best ammo I could get.

The guy shoots ALOT and is pleased with what he fires....the best ammo you could get us gonna be $$$$$$ if you want to shoot a lot.

 

GG

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

For plinking I would not be so critical and demanding. But for the serious stuff, a few mags of accurate and tested ammo would be the ticket in my book. Besides, reloading would keep me off the streets and away from people. Always a good thing in my wife's eyes.

[Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674]

Both my Bushmaster AR15 carbine and my IWI Tavor bullpup have no issues with steel cased ammo. Both have 5.56 chambers. BTW Hornady produces steel cased match ammo in 223.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

For plinking I would not be so critical and demanding. But for the serious stuff, a few mags of accurate and tested ammo would be the ticket in my book. Besides, reloading would keep me off the streets and away from people. Always a good thing in my wife's eyes.

The ammo in the link I post'd can/will do both--

Ck out Aim Surplus' ammo deals.

LG

[Echeconnee Drifter]

I've shot steel cased ammo in my .223 plenty of times with no issues, but my .223 is an AK!

 

The video posted above pretty much explains it all. If you're buying ammunition to plink with, train with, generally have fun with, Wolf and other steel-cased options are a good choice, provided your rifle isn't showing some of the symptoms like extractor marks on the case.

 

For hunting, self-defense, and other situations, you will always do better with something else, primarily because the bi-metal jacket bullets don't expand or fragment well. Then again, a 55 grain ballistic tip is gonna be far better than any mil-surp ammunition you find anyway.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

I've shot steel cased ammo in my .223 plenty of times with no issues, but my .223 is an AK!

 

The video posted above pretty much explains it all. If you're buying ammunition to plink with, train with, generally have fun with, Wolf and other steel-cased options are a good choice, provided your rifle isn't showing some of the symptoms like extractor marks on the case.

 

For hunting, self-defense, and other situations, you will always do better with something else, primarily because the bi-metal jacket bullets don't expand or fragment well. Then again, a 55 grain ballistic tip is gonna be far better than any mil-surp ammunition you find anyway.

Kinda along the lines that I am thunking. At least in a SHTF situation.