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Problem with Old Model Vaquero


Hollifer A. Dollar

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I recently bought a pair of used OMVs in 45 Colt. Both are pretty much stock with transfer bars in place. 1 gun is perfect, smooth as silk. The 2nd gun had a noticeable hitch in the action which has developed into a bigger problem.

 

At first, when I opened the loading gate, the "bzzzzz" of the ratchet was very subdued. When pulling back the hammer I could feel a hitch at about 1/4-3/8" back (for reference, the same general location in the stroke as the loading notch point on a colt action). The more I worked the action, the worse it got. Along with that, the "bzzzzz" of the ratchet was gone. Then when the loading gate was closed, half the time the hammer would be locked in place (couldn't pull it back at all). I disassembled both guns & the only thing I could see that was different between the 2 - in the gun with the problem, the top corner of the pawl had been filed at the side closest to the cylinder pin. I reassembled both guns. The gun that worked fine worked fine again. The gun with the problem just got worse.

 

I don't know much about the Ruger action, so I asked a friend who does know about them. He said that it sounded like the pawl had been filed to make it free spin. He had a stock pawl & sent it to me. I put it in the gun Friday...problem still exists but is even worse. Still no proper "bzzzzz" with loading gate open. Open the loading gate, roll the cylinder, close loading gate, hammer will not pull back. I have to open the gate, roll the cylinder a little, then pull the hammer & close the gate. Take out the cylinder, push in the cylinder pin, the action works just fine. Put in the cylinder, lock up.

 

I did try swapping the cylinders between guns - the problem exists with the other cylinder.

 

This description may not be very good, but if anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate the help.

 

Holler

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Howdy,

Call Ruger and tell them just what you told us.

I bet you are asked to ship them the fussy one and it should come back

workin fine.

They would be my first stop.

I bet they don't charge you and maybe tell em Chili Ron sent you

and they might pay the freight.

Worst case you pay for shipping each way.

btw no gun dealer is needed.

You should ship right to ruger and they ship right back unless you have

weird local laws. AS ownership doesn't change, no fed sheets need be filled out.

Best

CR

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IT sounds like the plunger pin is sticking and not pushing the transfer bar back away from the firing pin.

As you cock the hammer the transfer bar is catching under the firing pin and not coming up so the hammer can engage the transfer bar to the firing pin.

Flush the plunger pin hole with a good clenaer or disassemble and clean the plunger pin, plunger pin spring and the hole in the frame.

 

Check the plunger pin for damage.

After a time of hitting the firing pin due to not coming out of it's hole, the pin can have burrs and be deformed.

This will make the pin jam in the hole.

 

The plunger pin spring may be rusty or broken.

 

Take the gun and make sure it's empty.

Point the barrel straight up and cycle the hammer.

The transfer bar should not engage the firing pin in this position.

If the gun still hangs up, the issue may be else where.

 

Be sure to clean the hammer recess so the transfer bar moves freely.

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Ruger will fix for free !

I would try switching the grip frames.

And see if the problom switches guns.

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Update - I just disassembled the offending revolver, checked the hammer plunger, removed it, cleaned it, reinstalled & it moves freely without binding. When I reassembled the gun, the hitch is even more pronounced & the original problem remains.

 

Cliff Hanger, I did as you said, held the gun up, pulled the hammer back (cylinder out of the gun) & the transfer bar is not catching on the firing pin.

 

Will keep working with it, looks like it might be going back to Ruger. Thanks everyone for the help.

 

Holler

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My advice follows the others, above:

 

It's a weapon and it's malfunctioning. A weapon like that is a potential or real safety issue. If you were able to diagnose the problem and repair it, you'd have done so by now. Not trying to insult or embarrass you.

 

The first line of defense for (Ruger) issues like this, unless you have access to tools or a competent gunsmith, is to use Ruger's excellent customer service. And, as stated above, It's perfectly legal under Federal law for you ship directly to them as an individual and they return it to your door. It worked for me. The cost, if any, will be low and you'll have a factory-fixed weapon back in your hands, likely quicker than any cowboy gunsmith would. The only "problem," if you want to call it that, and which it isn't, is that Ruger will bring the weapon back to factory specs and any home-brewed or incompetent "action job" will be gone, having been replaced and expertly reassembled with new parts. Then, if it suits you, you can have CAS action work performed; hopefully by a competent technician.

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Mr. Dollar, check base pin assembly, should be a pin protruding from rear under spring tension. That's the part that keeps transfer bar from getting bound under firing pin. you can reassemble and try action with transfer bar not installed. any difference? Check gate detent spring also, make sure it is not collapsed. Finally, check the pawl spring and plunger. they are in the left side rear of the frame, held in place by grip frame. make sure not damaged. compare internals to pics of ruger parts in schematics on brownelles web page. Good luck! ned

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My guess is the gate detent spring was installed incorrectly. I did that once, the first time I re-assembled an OMV, and it did exactly the aforementioned behavior.... Also the gate itself was stiff to operate.

 

 

At first, when I opened the loading gate, the "bzzzzz" of the ratchet was very subdued. When pulling back the hammer I could feel a hitch at about 1/4-3/8" back (for reference, the same general location in the stroke as the loading notch point on a colt action). The more I worked the action, the worse it got. Along with that, the "bzzzzz" of the ratchet was gone. Then when the loading gate was closed, half the time the hammer would be locked in place (couldn't pull it back at all). I disassembled both guns & the only thing I could see that was different between the 2 - in the gun with the problem, the top corner of the pawl had been filed at the side closest to the cylinder pin. I reassembled both guns. The gun that worked fine worked fine again. The gun with the problem just got worse.

 

 

Holler

 

In any case, ruger isn't far away, and you don't have to FFL them the gun and they can ship it right back to you. I'd call them and get an RMA number.

 

Good luck!

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Mr. Dollar, check base pin assembly, should be a pin protruding from rear under spring tension. That's the part that keeps transfer bar from getting bound under firing pin. you can reassemble and try action with transfer bar not installed. any difference? Check gate detent spring also, make sure it is not collapsed. Finally, check the pawl spring and plunger. they are in the left side rear of the frame, held in place by grip frame. make sure not damaged. compare internals to pics of ruger parts in schematics on brownelles web page. Good luck! ned

 

Base pin with spring loaded pin is in place & working properly.

 

Is the pawl spring/plunger in place?

 

Yes.

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You've most likely got a pawl issue; it's either worn or "adjusted" improperly by someone. The "hitch" is the clue. The steps in the pawl are improperly catching on the cylinder ratchet.

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You've most likely got a pawl issue; it's either worn or "adjusted" improperly by someone. The "hitch" is the clue. The steps in the pawl are improperly catching on the cylinder ratchet.

+1. Let me know if you need one and can't find one close by. I'll get one to you.

 

Stan

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One note about sending back obsolete guns to Ruger for repair. On one occasion I acquired (2) 32 H&R Rugers. I wasn't happy with the modifications so after talking to Ruger and checking to see if they could restore them to stock, I sent them off.

 

After a short time, they contacted me and informed me that the guns could not be restored to stock and offered no further explanation. What they did do was offer me enough credit on the 32's so that I could purchase 2 New Vaqueros of my choice at the cost of $100 each, which I did. The new guns did have to go thru an FFL though.

 

Fillmore

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Make sure the cross pin that holds the plunger in the hammer, is not dragging on the guns frame.

Both of my OMV 44's started doing this. Had to center punch the hammer where the pin sits.

LG

 

The pin is flush, I checked that when I put it back in.

 

You've most likely got a pawl issue; it's either worn or "adjusted" improperly by someone. The "hitch" is the clue. The steps in the pawl are improperly catching on the cylinder ratchet.

 

+1. Let me know if you need one and can't find one close by. I'll get one to you.

 

Stan

 

Daybreaker sent me a stock pawl, I put it in & it was the same or worse.

 

Or the spring that holds the pawl is messed up.

LG

 

The spring looks to be in good shape.

 

Update #2:

 

I did some more work with the gun yesterday afternoon. As per a suggestion, I took out the transfer bar, reassembled & problem still exists, but the "hitch" was gone. I did swap cylinders & the problem didn't go away, so I think Fireball & Stan are right - it's something with the pawl. Will keep updating as things progress.

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Removed the t'bar and you think the issue is the pawl? You lost me there---

Pull the pawl and try that.

Can you post pictures?? I would like to see the t'bar and the 'steps' on the pawl.

LG

 

With the transfer bar removed, the hitch in the action is gone (working the action with cylinder removed), but the hammer locks up with cylinder installed - just like it does with transfer bar in place. I will take pictures the next time I disassemble the gun.

 

Holler

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With the transfer bar removed, the hitch in the action is gone (working the action with cylinder removed), but the hammer locks up with cylinder installed - just like it does with transfer bar in place. I will take pictures the next time I disassemble the gun.

 

Holler

Pull the 'pawl', and cycle the action.

Have you looked for burrs and weird wear spots/gouges etc?

Wish you were closer-Like to do a 'hands-on' of that Ruger..

One last thing-Pull the hammer spring and strut out. Cycle the action.

I have seen the strut put in wrong and cause what you are say'n.

LG

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Working with Daybreaker now & we found the issue. The hole in the hammer for the pawl was too low - compared it with a stock hammer he had & it was noticeably lower. That made the pawl too short. We reassembled the gun with the original pawl & the other hammer - voila! The gun functions properly. Thanks to all for your help!

 

Holler

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So your now say'n the Rugers had non-stock hammers in them?? :huh:

Do you have any pictures of these 2 hammers?

LG

 

What I am saying is, we removed the hammer that was in the gun, put it next to a different hammer & put the hammer pivot pin through both. You could see that the pawl hole on the first hammer did not line up with the pawl hole in the new hammer. We then reassembled the gun with all the original parts EXCEPT the hammer, replacing it with the new part. Gun works as it is supposed to ("bzzzzzzzzz" when loading gate is open, hammer pulls back, advances cylinder, etc). At some point in this process I have tried alternate parts & the only one that made a difference was the hammer. You can draw your own conclusions based on that.

 

I did try to take pictures of the hammers showing the pawl holes not lined up - damn tough to do with an iPhone.

 

We also found what caused the hitch halfway through the hammer pull - there was a burr in the transfer bar tunnel. 30 seconds with a file & the hitch is gone.

 

I is a happy cowboy! Again, thanks to everyone for their help, especially Daybreaker.

 

Holler

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