Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Exceptions to the Posse Commitatus Act allow the use of troops when a state is unable or unwilling to protect the constitutional tights of it's citizens. Eisenhower used Federal troops in Little Rock. So an attack on citizens would certainly bring out the soldiers and Marines. But, how quickly they would be able to respond is another matter. Unless an attack was near a military base the response time would be probably too late to prevent mass casualties. Note the civilian casualties in the Mombai attack and India has soldiers everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sarge Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I think he is referring to the Posse Comitatus Act that limits the powers of Federal government in using federal military personnel to enforce the state laws. The Coast Guard is not covered in this act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 If an ISIS cell were to conduct an attack in the heartland, the military wouldget there far to late to do any good. Note the damage done by one Muslim extremist at Ft Hood, one of the largest military posts in the country. Our military is simply not prepared to deal with domestic attacks. And any attack would be done by a cell, probably of less than 20 individuals. No massive attacks like in Iraq. The only initial response would be local law enforcement. Immediately after 9/11 local law enforcement agencies went through an orientation and training program put on by the Feds. It was an eye opener. Basic gist was that we were pretty much on our own. Yet so far ISIS as far as we have seen from what the news shows us, has been engaging in military type maneuvers NOT we would refer to as a terrorist event. And it is unlikely that local cops having mraps or anyother militiary type vehicles will be able to stop such an event as you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The military is precluded from action in the U.S., although they have been utilized in a support capacity, on occasion. Governors have the option of calling out the Guard, but that's not the same thing. NOT correct. The US Military can be used in the US proper to repel invasions etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Yet so far ISIS as far as we have seen from what the news shows us, has been engaging in military type maneuvers NOT we would refer to as a terrorist event. And it is unlikely that local cops having mraps or anyother militiary type vehicles will be able to stop such an event as you describe. It would be unwise for ANYONE to underestimate some of our police departments from some of our larger cities. Most of the officers involved in threat response are well trained former military personel who are also well equipped and organized. If citizens are willing to support them in a terrorist or invasion type situation, it could be very bad for anyone attempting anything more than an isolated incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamity Kris Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle is a large truck used to transport troops safely. It has special armor to protect it from both mines and gunfire. It does not have a cannon or machine guns and is used to keep the passengers from being killed. A Sherman is a tank with treads and a very big gun. http://defense-update.com/images_new/MRAP_Cat_1_navistar.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/TankshermanM4.jpg Thanks, Bob. In the case of Ferguson, I think the use of MRAPs was called for. From the damage incurred to the LE vehicles alone, I can certainly believe these LEOs had a right to fear for their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 NOT correct. The US Military can be used in the US proper to repel invasions etc. I doubt ISIS will land on our shores ala a sea borne invasion. The President has authority to employ Federal troops, but outside the U.S. with the exception of the North American Air Defense Command, whose job is to patrol the skies of the U.S. There won't be any Marines standing around on your block looking for terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I doubt ISIS will land on our shores ala a sea borne invasion. The President has authority to employ Federal troops, but outside the U.S. with the exception of the North American Air Defense Command, whose job is to patrol the skies of the U.S. There won't be any Marines standing around on your block looking for terrorists. All y'all that are saying federal troops won't fight terrorists on U.S. soil... You have some sort of reference for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I doubt ISIS will land on our shores ala a sea borne invasion. The President has authority to employ Federal troops, but outside the U.S. with the exception of the North American Air Defense Command, whose job is to patrol the skies of the U.S. There won't be any Marines standing around on your block looking for terrorists. Don't bet on that! LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 All y'all that are saying federal troops won't fight terrorists on U.S. soil... You have some sort of reference for this? They have incorrect info on the Posse Comitatus Act. There are many misconceptions. Here is a good article on the subject. Posse Comitatus and Homeland Security Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 They have incorrect info on the Posse Comitatus Act. There are many misconceptions. Here is a good article on the subject. Posse Comitatus and Homeland Security Agreed, I was just wondering where they were getting the info. And as you've said, the response in most cases would be slow, and police would most likely be the first on the scene. That said, for any prolonged engagement... There are elements of the military that are capable of responding very quickly, and likely wouldn't use an MRAP themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Hardware may be a moot discussion. According to Fox News, a ISIS laptop that was discovered indicated ways to introduce bubonic plague through dead animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Hardware may be a moot discussion. According to Fox News, a ISIS laptop that was discovered indicated ways to introduce bubonic plague through dead animals. And I wonder.... if we're getting this news, what news are we NOT getting...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Not to worry. Moonbeam has your best interest at heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Not to worry. Moonbeam has your best interest at heart. You MUST be deal'n with some type of severe head trauma... LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Okay... just imagine... a Clinton-Brown ticket in '16.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Who said that there would be a TICKET in 2016. When Bumfuzzle gets done, he may just decide to stay in the White House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles B. Gatewood SASS #48517 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Some folks are a mite sensitive... Scroll down to the video... it's interesting, but the fella who comes on at 1:58 sorta... well... Town Orders Police to Get Rid of MRAP Can I have it? Sooooo.... not everyone made it to "Burning Man" this year? I can see situations where this vehicle would be an asset. CBG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Agreed, I was just wondering where they were getting the info. And as you've said, the response in most cases would be slow, and police would most likely be the first on the scene. That said, for any prolonged engagement... There are elements of the military that are capable of responding very quickly, and likely wouldn't use an MRAP themselves. True but there wouldn't be a prolonged engagement most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sarge Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Pards, one thing everybody needs to get straight is there were no MRAPs in Ferguson. In fact, no law enforcement agency in ST Louis County has received MRAPs. The vehicles you saw were Bearcats. These were designed for law enforcement, but has gained limited military usage in the US. Homeland Security bought 2,700 Bearcats and has distributed them to law enforcement agencies. The Defense Logistics Agency has distributed only 196 MRAPs under the 1033 program. Here is a good article explaining some of the difficulty with MRAPs for law enforcement. http://www.policeone.com/police-products/vehicles/specialty/articles/6735349-The-hidden-hazards-of-MRAPs/ BTW, the 1033 program occasionally has submarines come available. I wanted one for my PD to use in the old sewage lagoon. But of course that was the same town where they wouldn't let us put alligators in some streams to control beavers. They fussed because the stream was next to city park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Okay... just imagine... a Clinton-Brown ticket in '16.... That would be the 'brownest' ticket in history---- LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Mosby Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Hardware may be a moot discussion. According to Fox News, a ISIS laptop that was discovered indicated ways to introduce bubonic plague through dead animals. We don't have to worry. His highness said that they don't have a strategy for dealing with ISIS, and even if we did we can't beat them. However there is no indication whatsoever that ISIS is even thinking about doing anything in the US so don't worry, they're not a threat. Hmm, isn't that what he said about the terrorists when we bailed on Iraq? We're seeing how that one worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 It would be unwise for ANYONE to underestimate some of our police departments from some of our larger cities. Most of the officers involved in threat response are well trained former military personel who are also well equipped and organized. If citizens are willing to support them in a terrorist or invasion type situation, it could be very bad for anyone attempting anything more than an isolated incident. I doubt isis would attack any of the better prepared larger cities. However regardless of how well prepared any of the police, military is the attacker depending upon what they want to do could very well succeed. They may not be able to escape nor hold what they take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I doubt ISIS will land on our shores ala a sea borne invasion. The President has authority to employ Federal troops, but outside the U.S. with the exception of the North American Air Defense Command, whose job is to patrol the skies of the U.S. There won't be any Marines standing around on your block looking for terrorists. You are most likely right... They would likely come across the mexico border. How they get in to the US means nothing in the question of whether the US military can or cannot be used to repeal/defeat the intruder. And by the way invasion is not necessarily by sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Hardware may be a moot discussion. According to Fox News, a ISIS laptop that was discovered indicated ways to introduce bubonic plague through dead animals. The Priarie dogs here in CO have the plague. Not sure which one. Occasionally we see a report of some humans that catch it from them via mites (I think). This happens if the humans have walked through the dog colony and possibly handled dead dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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