Subdeacon Joe Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Interesting:http://www.tickld.com/x/13-complete-soldiers-kits-from-the-armies My only comment is that the kits shown for the very early ones would have been for the upper class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I wish they'd all been laid out the same. That one comment, "Each one has a spoon". I hadn't noticed eating gear. But if, in each picture, the eating gear had been HERE in the picture, and the toilet gear HERE, and the underclothing HERE, it would make it easier to flip back and forth, comparing how things have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Nelson Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I noticed the 20th Century kits had a lot more items, although many items probably weighed less than their earlier counterparts. Like a product manager at the defense supplier where I used to work liked to say, "We load down our troops with 200 pounds of lightweight gear." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I noticed the 20th Century kits had a lot more items, although many items probably weighed less than their earlier counterparts. Like a product manager at the defense supplier where I used to work liked to say, "We load down our troops with 200 pounds of lightweight gear." That's funny, and true. Once upon a time I decided to see what I weighed with everything I thought was necessary to carry. At the time, I was 220 in uniform and boots, with a pistol. Added vest and the things on the vest, rifle, and helmet, and it came to 270. Added my pack that contained more ammo, advanced trauma kit, some food, water and water purification, signalling devices, sniffle gear, long range radio antenna and spare batteries, etc... and it all came to 315. That was a 2-3 day kit. Guys going out for a week or more would have another 20 pounds, at least. There was an army manual that said a "combat equipped soldier" should weigh 250, and while I was personally a little heavier than some of the other guys, we all carried about the same kit. I doubt very many soldiers were under 250, unless you were counting them with no pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Notice the decrease in edged weapons as time progresses. Guess we are getting more civilized in our methods for killing each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 Commonalities - bowl of some sort, spoon of some sort, eating/utility knife of some sort. Socks/stockings/foot wraps and shoes. Fighting knife. I liked the mace with the WWI gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 Notice the decrease in edged weapons as time progresses. Guess we are getting more civilized in our methods for killing each other. Less reliance on muscle power and close fighting skills. Why place yourself in arms reach of the foe if you can avoid it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Notice the decrease in edged weapons as time progresses. Guess we are getting more civilized in our methods for killing each other. The Army does not even do bayonet training anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Nelson Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 The Army does not even do bayonet training anymore. Does a Predator drone even have a bayonet mount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Does a Predator drone even have a bayonet mount? The Army doesn't fly Predators. The Air Force does. That's why they can double as cappuccino machines while in the hangar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Sparky, Yep. Sure does. We hang a laser/TV guided munition from it. Very ...... Effective :-) Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Nelson Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Yep. Sure does. We hang a laser/TV guided munition from it. Very ...... Effective :-) I don't think that counts as an edged weapon though. That's a big expensive bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Does a Predator drone even have a bayonet mount? Ahem: Recently, a Marine Corps Harrier Squadron was invited to attend the annual Air Force Red Flag exercised at Nellis Air Force Base, NV. This is one of the USAF's big exercises where they test Combined Arms employment of tactical air assets. The USAF F-15 pilots showed up on the ramp with dozens of rear echelon airman types and tons of equipment such as Ground Power Units, Accessory Power Units, Hummers, Trucks, Air Conditioners, etc. The Marines appeared ready to operate in a combat environment and showed up with only their Harriers. The Air Force commander commented to the Marine commander: "Where is all your support stuff? Geezz, you guys really are just Grunts that know how to fly." Not wanting to disappoint the Air Force commander, the Marine commander got an idea of his own to carry on the comment. He talked to his First Sergeant and later that night, the First Sergeant had his Marines make up bayonet studs on hose clamps. You see, there is a Pitot tube sticking out of the nose of a Harrier. In the late hours of darkness, the First Sergeant had the clamp with the bayonet stud tightened onto the Pitot tubes of each Harrier. The next morning, the Air Force pilots fell out on the ramp in front of their F-15s. The Marine pilots fell out on the other side of the ramp in front of their Harriers. Each Marine pilot had on his deuce gear with a bayonet in the scabbard. The USAF commander ordered his pilots to "man your planes." The USAF ground crews by the dozens scrambled to their trucks, APU's, GPU's, etc. and the pilots ran to their planes. The Marine commander ordered his Marines to "Fix Bayonets." Each pilot ran to the front of their Harrier and fixed his bayonet on the stud attached to the Pitot tube. The Marine commander then ordered "CHARGE" and the Marines jumped in their Harriers, dusted airborne, and flew off. The Marine commander turned to the USAF commander and said; "Now that is what we Marines consider Close Ground Support." Take it with a large grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Nelson Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Take it with a large grain of salt. That's the best kind of story though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Does a Predator drone even have a bayonet mount? The japanese made ones probably do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 That's funny, and true. Once upon a time I decided to see what I weighed with everything I thought was necessary to carry. At the time, I was 220 in uniform and boots, with a pistol. Added vest and the things on the vest, rifle, and helmet, and it came to 270. Added my pack that contained more ammo, advanced trauma kit, some food, water and water purification, signalling devices, sniffle gear, long range radio antenna and spare batteries, etc... and it all came to 315. That was a 2-3 day kit. Guys going out for a week or more would have another 20 pounds, at least. There was an army manual that said a "combat equipped soldier" should weigh 250, and while I was personally a little heavier than some of the other guys, we all carried about the same kit. I doubt very many soldiers were under 250, unless you were counting them with no pack. While at Ft. Hood getting ready for my last deployment, we came in from training one day and I weighed myself. First with equipment: K-Pot, vest with plates, M-4, seven loaded 30 rd. mags, camelbak w/ water, one MRE and CLS bag (NOT my full size aid bag). Then in just uniform and boots. The difference was 81 pounds. I liked the mace with the WWI gear. I liked that too! Better than an e-tool! Less reliance on muscle power and close fighting skills. Why place yourself in arms reach of the foe if you can avoid it? The Army does not even do bayonet training anymore. But they still do hand-to-hand "combatives." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Less reliance on muscle power and close fighting skills. Why place yourself in arms reach of the foe if you can avoid it? Because sometimes you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 What is the spirit of the bayonet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 What is the spirit of the bayonet? KILL, KILL, KILL! (and he started jumping up and down with me, yelling KILL! KILL! Then the sergeant walked in and said "You're our boy.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Because sometimes you can't. Yeah, poor marksmanship sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk Creek LeMieux Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Despite some of the best marksmanship training of any military in the world, hand to hand still happens on occasion. http://www.news.com.au/national/killer-commando-america-poaches-australias-toughest-man/story-fncynjr2-1226592161560 http://www.businessinsider.com/the-crazy-story-of-cpl-wooldridge-2013-12 http://www.armytimes.com/article/20081004/NEWS/810040309/Spc-gets-Silver-Star-for-hand-to-hand-combat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 KILL, KILL, KILL! (and he started jumping up and down with me, yelling KILL! KILL! Then the sergeant walked in and said "You're our boy.") From the "Group W bench!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Long Story, US Cavalry Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 KILL, KILL, KILL! (and he started jumping up and down with me, yelling KILL! KILL! Then the sergeant walked in and said "You're our boy.") I'm in for Littering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Long Story, US Cavalry Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Notice the decrease in edged weapons as time progresses. Guess we are getting more civilized in our methods for killing each other. "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones" - Einstein or Lord Mountbatten, take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. QUINCANNON, SASS #32999 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 What is the spirit of the bayonet? TO KILL WITHOUT MERCY, SIR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 What is the spirit of the bayonet? I just know there are two kinds of bayonet fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 No bayonets but are personal or issued fighting knives still a component of combat gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 They still issue bayonets, Just don't have a training program. So they're on their own as to that thrust, parry, buttstroke, slash stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shoer 27979 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 No bayonets but are personal or issued fighting knives still a component of combat gear? I don't know if they are but I bought all 3 of my sons Kabars when they graduated Marine Corp boot camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I don't know if they are but I bought all 3 of my sons Kabars when they graduated Marine Corp boot camp I'm talking Army training doctrine. Hopefully the corps still does bayonet training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shoer 27979 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'm talking Army training doctrine. Hopefully the corps still does bayonet training. I was just making a statement Bob. That was the graduation present for graduating Boot camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Long Story, US Cavalry Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Guess who still trains with the bayonet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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