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Legalizing dope creates problems


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Quit gaming it,,,, by the smoke screen... just answer the original question I posted in #42.... Yes or No??

 

You lose on the bet,, i would gladly do away with "homeowner's insurance because you have guns:.... Now, what 'DO I WIN!!!'???

 

Why are you so defensive on this subject?

So sorry, BM....must have missed it. NO! And it ends the most abject failure in the history of social policy- The War On Drugs... the most unmitigated disaster ever created....not just my opinion.... drugs are more available than ever and available in every class and category with purity and demand higher than ever before in the history of mankind.

As to my being defensive.... I thought we were having a discussion about an important subject? I raised 3 sons in this environment. I attended high school in Southern California in the late 1960's and early '70's. I watched a roommate go from a high earning stock broker to a street person and a best friend lose everything he had to cocaine- family, net worth, everything.

I've also watched as people close to me have operated in a world that none of us knows. I assure you that pot trafficking from MEX is virtually finished- that they have moved on to other things is no surprise. It's time we put them all out of business. Just look at the trash that is coming across our borders and the war we have created against cartels that are made because the money is there.

Here's a simple test: Do you know of; can you site any equivalent cartels in any other substance? Alcohol? Pharma? no.... none. When Prohibition ended so did they. It's a failed experiment and history will show it. Other than your fears that people may do or try it... there is no argument to prevent it.... and if they want to they will do it anyway.

Your children can get illegal drugs easier and faster than they can buy beer and cigarettes. How stupid a social policy is that? Good grief...I'm just thankful that the entire world is waking up.

 

Absolutely not. Hamid Karzai and his cronies and family control the Afghanistan poppy crop. And you know how well he cooperates with us.

OH POPPYCOCK! Good grief...we have the guns... and they are exporting more heroine poppy now than when we got there.

 

 

Not ALL of us BK honey...... <_<<_<<_<

I know that's right...seen it myownself! ;)

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OH POPPYCOCK! Good grief...we have the guns... and they are exporting more heroine poppy now than when we got there.

 

 

Yes, the poppy crop is increasing in Afgannyland, but it's not because 'we' 'control' (USA) it. That's conspiracy bologna.

 

some legitimate consensus on the issue: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102158/Heroin-production-Afghanistan-RISEN-61.html

 

"Officials say there is clear evidence that the opium trade is being orchestrated by the Taliban, with vast profits used to buy weapons and fuel the insurgency."

 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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OH POPPYCOCK! Good grief...we have the guns... and they are exporting more heroine poppy now than when we got there.

 

Poppycock? I think not. Do some research on Karzai's family. You think because we have troops with guns there that they're acting as DEA agents? WE have made no attempt to control the poppy farming other than give money to the Afghans to set up programs to encourage farmers to start growing something else. And that's worked real well. We don't control much of anything over there.No one ever has.

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;) right....this was the good war, remember? Did you ever wonder why we talked about stamping out the Taliban but left them in the poppy/ opium trade? hmmmm.... how long does it take to destroy a poppy field? say... maybe 30 minutes? Anyone with Agent Orange experience want to speak to how long it takes to defoliate an open field?

 

Kool Aide! Kool Aide! Get your free Kool Aide!

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FACT!! Fox news Bill O'Rielly poll, don't know which one he cited, but the poll was nation wide.. 59% of Americans say they want marijuana legalized..

 

Not sure but that's more than vote in the Presidential election's every 4 yr's..

 

I think this debate is coming to a head, as the generation that grew up in the 60-70's are now coming to positions of power and have experinced both BOOZE, and WEED ,and know the differance of how each recreational high affects poeple..

 

The evidence is overwhelming as to which of these substances has, and still does the most harm in people, and society as a whole..

 

Now I know there are extremes on both sides of this issue, on one side you have the puritin's who indulge in no form of recreational substances, (Good for them) and on the other you have the Drunks, and Addicts (So sad for them)..

 

Look's like the majortiy of the rest fall somewhere in the middle...

 

I would say with some amount of correctness that the Drunks far and away outnumber the Addicts and that's including all drug's.

 

Now, I personally know many successfull poeple in my age group, some have a couple drinks at the end of the day, some smoke a bowl, and none of them could be concidered either( Drunks) nor( Addicts) and I belive that is where most of society fall's on this subject..

 

The simple fact is, many, many adults indulge in recreational highs such as Booze and Weed to unwind from the world not that we should have to, but humans have used both of these substances for that purpose forever, as well, weed has been used two fold for medical purposes forever.

 

As far as a gateway drug, I know for a fact that Booze wins hands down on this as well, you may disagree but that's the view from my saddle.. ;)

 

Now pop a cold one if ya got one, or smoke one if ya got one, and if ya don't like either, do whatever it is that floats yer boat.. :P

 

A certain amont of people will always sucumb to over indulgence of thing's, be it Booze, Drug's, Sex, Food, the list can go on forever, but thankfully the gut of America seems to fall somewhere in the middle thank GOD... :D

 

 

 

Spades H.. Right in the middle -_-

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;) right....this was the good war, remember? Did you ever wonder why we talked about stamping out the Taliban but left them in the poppy/ opium trade? hmmmm.... how long does it take to destroy a poppy field? say... maybe 30 minutes? Anyone with Agent Orange experience want to speak to how long it takes to defoliate an open field?

 

Kool Aide! Kool Aide! Get your free Kool Aide!

 

First you have to find the field. There are an estimated 366,000 poppy fields with an average size of less than an acre. That make a maximum of 806 sq miles of poppy fields spread out over 251,000 sq miles of Afghanistan. It is the cash crop for 10% of the country's farmers, the poorest farmers. I doubt you could do a massive defoliation of the poppy fields without destroying the country's legitimate agriculture.

 

Corruption aside, eradication efforts have been hampered by the insurgency, making it a very dangerous endeavor.

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There's no such thing as a gateway drug. Just the drugs you try before you find the one that you're really addicted to. Basically, a certain percentage of the population will have addiction problems with any drug - whether that be alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, opiates, or even adrenalin. For them the compulsion is something they will constantly need to battle. Putting them in jail for losing that personal battle, instead of giving them the support they need, has always seemed a little bass-ackwards to me.

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;) right....this was the good war, remember? Did you ever wonder why we talked about stamping out the Taliban but left them in the poppy/ opium trade? hmmmm.... how long does it take to destroy a poppy field? say... maybe 30 minutes? Anyone with Agent Orange experience want to speak to how long it takes to defoliate an open field?

 

Kool Aide! Kool Aide! Get your free Kool Aide!

You said we have had control of the poppy trade for over a decade.

I say we have not. Maybe we could have, if we had doubled our manpower and turned to destruction of crops instead of fighting. But we did not. So how have we had control? And how is my statement poppycock? I'm trying to follow your thought process.

And I seriously doubt defoliants like AO will never be used by us again.

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There's no such thing as a gateway drug. Just the drugs you try before you find the one that you're really addicted to. Basically, a certain percentage of the population will have addiction problems with any drug - whether that be alcohol, tobacco, cocaine, opiates, or even adrenalin. For them the compulsion is something they will constantly need to battle. Putting them in jail for losing that personal battle, instead of giving them the support they need, has always seemed a little bass-ackwards to me.

 

Well said sir, however some poeple will never be helped, no matter how hard we try, this too is a fact.. The reason I used the term Gateway is because this is the term often cited by the anti crowd as a reason not to legalize mariujana.

 

I however do agree with your comment, but while there are many gateways to abuse of all the things, and more than you listed, I still feel BOOZE to be the KING in the gateway KINGDOM of abuse/addiction to more harmfull activities ... -_-

 

Spades H. Still in the middle.. ;)

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You said we have had control of the poppy trade for over a decade.

I say we have not. Maybe we could have, if we had doubled our manpower and turned to destruction of crops instead of fighting. But we did not. So how have we had control? And how is my statement poppycock? I'm trying to follow your thought process.

And I seriously doubt defoliants like AO will never be used by us again.

We've controlled everything that moves in Afghanistan for over a decade....IF we wanted to have stopped it then it would have been stopped. To suggest that the reason we didn't eradicate the poppy trade was because we couldn't find the fields is pretty damn funny.

 

The fact is that the US and Afghans negotiated a maximum of 10% per year to be eradicated. It could only be cut down- it could not be sprayed. The reason is that they grow winter wheat (harvest May- June) and then grow poppy for cash. And to suggest for a moment that it is done with the full cooperation of the DOD is simply naïve.

 

Ever wonder why we didn't destroy the coca fields in Columbia or the pot fields in Mexico? This isn't conspiracy theory. This is the nexis of modern diplomacy as regards these crops and their respective economies.

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We've controlled everything that moves in Afghanistan for over a decade....IF we wanted to have stopped it then it would have been stopped. To suggest that the reason we didn't eradicate the poppy trade was because we couldn't find the fields is pretty damn funny.

 

The fact is that the US and Afghans negotiated a maximum of 10% per year to be eradicated. It could only be cut down- it could not be sprayed. The reason is that they grow winter wheat (harvest May- June) and then grow poppy for cash. And to suggest for a moment that it is done with the full cooperation of the DOD is simply naïve.

 

Ever wonder why we didn't destroy the coca fields in Columbia or the pot fields in Mexico? This isn't conspiracy theory. This is the nexis of modern diplomacy as regards these crops and their respective economies.

 

...tin foil hat stuff :ph34r::rolleyes: anyway - the title of the thread is 'legalized dope causes problems' - and it does. Of course a lot of things can cause problems - but that's another thread ;) over and out.....

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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...tin foil hat stuff :ph34r::rolleyes: anyway - the title of the thread is 'legalized dope causes problems' - and it does. Of course a lot of things can cause problems - but that's another thread ;) over and out.....

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

NO.. it's not... in fact, the person who actually oversaw the program for almost 8 years in Afghanistan is a personal friend who happens to be looking over my shoulder at this moment with a big smile. His Colonel was in charge in Columbia, El Salvador and Mexico of our agreements there.

 

One could argue, and be correct that simply having agreements within which nations condone or treaty is a 'legalization' of sorts. Certainly one Manuel Noriega was famous for insisting that G HW Bush not only knew all along what was going on with the CIA running drugs through Panama and using Panama banking to launder the money, but he was the person in charge of the CIA when the program was developed. He was also the VP under Reagan who financed Iran Contra.

 

What was GHWB's very first order of business as president? He secured the paper trail in Panama....simple... not conspiracy... pure Machiavellian.

 

Wise up.... the reason it works the way it works is that there are national interests that depend on it.

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NO.. it's not... in fact, the person who actually oversaw the program for almost 8 years in Afghanistan is a personal friend who happens to be looking over my shoulder at this moment with a big smile. His Colonel was in charge in Columbia, El Salvador and Mexico of our agreements there.

 

One could argue, and be correct that simply having agreements within which nations condone or treaty is a 'legalization' of sorts. Certainly one Manuel Noriega was famous for insisting that G HW Bush not only knew all along what was going on with the CIA running drugs through Panama and using Panama banking to launder the money, but he was the person in charge of the CIA when the program was developed. He was also the VP under Reagan who financed Iran Contra.

 

What was GHWB's very first order of business as president? He secured the paper trail in Panama....simple... not conspiracy... pure Machiavellian.

 

Wise up.... the reason it works the way it works is that there are national interests that depend on it.

 

Works for me...I'll just 'wise up' and drink the Kool Aid and you can wear the 'tin foil hat' and believe in theatrical conspiracies...

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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In 2006 Hamid Karzai's brother made $4m cash on poppy's grown on the family's farms. As briefed by the Dynacorp advisor to the Afghan chief of police of Kabul. Additionally, Lt Shafiq, member of Afghan S4 of 3rd Brigade of Afghan Army Nat'l Corp was deliberately killed in a bombing as retaliation of 100 kilo of heroine in Jalalabad. The bombing was approved by the Chief of Police of Jalalabad whose family had lost the heroine.

 

Conspiracy? Theatre? No, it's the reality of the War on Drugs.... corruption, paybacks, cartels, and governments are all in it and they know it. Obviously you seem to think it's just random. The only thing random about it is who dies.

 

 

I think we may have gotten a little off track from the OP. Not unusual.

I'm glad your friend is amused. :lol:

He is retiring after 28 having served 12 USMC and the rest after 9-11 as USArmy. 8 years in Iraq and Afghan training troops/police and advisor. USArmy Nat'l Rifle champ- trained the bagman that carried the cash to the Contra to shoot.

 

Amused? Yes, if ROTFLHFAO is amused then he's amused. :D;)

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I think we may have gotten a little off track from the OP. Not unusual.

I'm glad your friend is amused. :lol:

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In 2006 Hamid Karzai's brother made $4m cash on poppy's grown on the family's farms. As briefed by the Dynacorp advisor to the Afghan chief of police of Kabul. Additionally, Lt Shafiq, member of Afghan S4 of 3rd Brigade of Afghan Army Nat'l Corp was deliberately killed in a bombing as retaliation of 100 kilo of heroine in Jalalabad. The bombing was approved by the Chief of Police of Jalalabad whose family had lost the heroine.

 

Conspiracy? Theatre? No, it's the reality of the War on Drugs.... corruption, paybacks, cartels, and governments are all in it and they know it. Obviously you seem to think it's just random. The only thing random about it is who dies.

Now I'm really confused. When I said Karzai et al controlled the drug trade, you said "poppycock".

anyway, I'm going to put on my hat, have a drink and a nice nap. Adios.

 

BTW I still think legalization is a bad idea. Neener neener. :P

 

1f9e26.jpg

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I think we may have gotten a little off track from the OP. Not unusual.

I'm glad your friend is amused. :lol:

 

 

Indeed - not unusual...and we all have our friends to guide us :ph34r::lol:

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Now I'm really confused. When I said Karzai et al controlled the drug trade, you said "poppycock".

anyway, I'm going to put on my hat, have a drink and a nice nap. Adios.

 

BTW I still think legalization is a bad idea. Neener neener. :P

 

1f9e26.jpg

So does my friend! LOLOL.... he fears that if we make it legal then more people will use it....and "IT MAY BECOME AS DANGEROUS AS ALCOHOL!"

 

Yes, we control Afghanistan, UB and everything that moves in it. It moves, grows and is sold under strict negotiation....in other words...it's legal. Heroine- coming to a city by you and strictly controlled under DOD and SOS negotiations until it hits the streets.

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Pretty sad when one has to look to dope to pay debts..... The sad thing is it's a band aid and the debt will only get worse.... Stupid remedy in the long run as it only opens the door for more socially degrading allowances to move in for their cut of the 'let's legalize it' movement. Yippie...

 

Bankrupt California city eyes marijuana for revenue

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/31/bankrupt-california-city-eyes-marijuana-for-revenue/

 

GG

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So sorry, BM....must have missed it. NO! And it ends the most abject failure in the history of social policy- The War On Drugs... the most unmitigated disaster ever created....not just my opinion.... drugs are more available than ever and available in every class and category with purity and demand higher than ever before in the history of mankind.

As to my being defensive.... I thought we were having a discussion about an important subject? I raised 3 sons in this environment. I attended high school in Southern California in the late 1960's and early '70's. I watched a roommate go from a high earning stock broker to a street person and a best friend lose everything he had to cocaine- family, net worth, everything.

 

BK, you answered my question (your answer is NO!!)! then go on to site examples of friends that's lives were drasticallly altered to the worse by drugs!!

 

Your point of the War on Drugs has failed and that the majority of the US/world? population has drifted over to favorable social drug use,,, is noted and have no argument,,, but likewise no approval from my part..

 

Like many past cultures, social degradation is the downfall of that society.. the USA is past the Senior catagory of culture and well into the Elder Statesman catagory.... meaning the end is in site (not necesssary yours or my lifetime, which is nothing) and making way for another culture to take the lead. With that, my long term goal is getting past tomorrow. LOL.

 

 

 

 

 

I've also watched as people close to me have operated in a world that none of us knows. I assure you that pot trafficking from MEX is virtually finished- that they have moved on to other things is no surprise. It's time we put them all out of business. Just look at the trash that is coming across our borders and the war we have created against cartels that are made because the money is there.

Here's a simple test: Do you know of; can you site any equivalent cartels in any other substance? Alcohol? Pharma? no.... none. When Prohibition ended so did they. It's a failed experiment and history will show it. Other than your fears that people may do or try it... there is no argument to prevent it.... and if they want to they will do it anyway.

Your children can get illegal drugs easier and faster than they can buy beer and cigarettes. How stupid a social policy is that? Good grief...I'm just thankful that the entire world is waking up.

 

OH POPPYCOCK! Good grief...we have the guns... and they are exporting more heroine poppy now than when we got there.

 

I know that's right...seen it myownself! ;)

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