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Huge Cheating Scandal


Chisler Wood

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Apparently there was a recent HUGE cheating scandal in USPSA/IPSC that might be of interest to SASS shooters. Not that long ago there was hubub on the Wire about people possie'ing with the same people over and over at matches and possibility of showing favoritism on calls and also the REAL possibility of outright cheating.....


Well the technology has finally caught up with the cheats! There is an app/program that allows you to put actual time (with splits etc) to video.


Maybe this will put some people on point in our sport too......





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As much as we would like to think shooters don't cheat. They are out there.

 

 

And as much as we would love to believe that SASS shooters don't. They are out there also.

NOT MANY.

 

Seen something funny at EOT a few years ago. Out and out cheating would have been hard to prove.

But there was something funny going on with one group from another state. Such as when timing for

there group.

That timer was not in the right position to pick up shots for those last few.

Just saying.

If I see it again. I will get in on my phone and point it out to someone. SO don't do it again.

Hard to pick up those last pistol shots when that timer is down at you side on your leg.

But held out to pick it up for everyone else.

 

P.S. Probably should not have posted this. But maybe they will see it and knock that stuff off.

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I always try to show the timer to the scorekeeper.

 

Fillmore

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To quote Yoda: "Do, or do NOT, there is no try."

I'm not sure what you are implying.

 

Respectfully,

Fillmore Coffins

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That's why the TO should immediately show the shooter the time, loudly call it out, show the timer to the score-keeper and verify the time and penalties recorder are correct. Keeps EVERYONE honest and above suspicion.

 

Yup - this is what they do at matches I have been at.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Showing times aside, He or she who holds the clipboard can play god with the times. This will make it harder from now on.

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To quote Yoda: "Do, or do NOT, there is no try."

 

Huh, I didn't know Yoda was a qualified timer operator. One question, how often do you do TO duties?

 

CS

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and the shooter.....

Announcing the time to the shooter, yes. Showing the timer to the shooter, not necessarily. The TO has enough going on.

 

Fillmore

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When I run the timer...

At the completion of the run, before doing anything else, I immediately SHOW the shooter their time.

Then AS I am polling the spotters, I call out the time.

 

Twenty three point forty one

Spotters say one miss.

 

Then I repeat the time in numerical format.

Two three point four one

Plus one miss.

 

I walk the timer back to the scorekeeper(s), show the time and visually display number of misses.

 

And I stay there until the scorekeeper has acknowledged me and repeated the time and misses back to me.

 

Echo Meadows was writing down scores at a recent shoot, along with a second scorer recording times in ACES. Echo had already repeated back the score, but while the other scorer had entered it into the tablet, she had not repeated it back to me. As I was standing there, Echo nudged the other scorer and said, "you better repeat the score or we will never get rid of him".

 

While I was hurt that she wanted me gone so strongly, I was glad that my efforts to ensure everyone ends up on the same page had not gone unnoticed. And even then, from time to time mistakes get made, constant diligence is required. Cheats will require that diligence times 100.

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Egregious? Indeed... and how much easier is it to award a penalty for a gun slipping a bale to one shooter, but someone else NOT awarding that same penalty because it 'slipped' but it didn't 'fall'?

 

Penalties in SASS are 10 seconds! My all- time favorite is the 170 break that "wasn't that bad". Closely followed by the "P" that doesn't get awarded because the shooter 'was aiming at the other target so it's a miss'. We all know what 5 or 10 secs does in a RP match.

 

Don't think that crap doesn't happen in SASS. Two stages after I had to award a SDQ at WR the same shooter was at the ULT hunched over my rifle. It occurred to me later that he insisted that I work the lever, which was closed and a 45 LC live round came out after 3 spotters and a TO had called me "CLEAN" on the stage. It wasn't until I looked closely at the bullet when I returned home that I realized the bullet wasn't even mine. My suspicions were confirmed when I shot it....it was loaded with black powder.

 

Interpersonal conflicts aren't tolerated at the range. This video is a great example of how much planning it takes to get it done the right way.

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When I run the timer...

At the completion of the run, before doing anything else, I immediately SHOW the shooter their time.

Then AS I am polling the spotters, I call out the time.

 

Twenty three point forty one

Spotters say one miss.

 

Then I repeat the time in numerical format.

Two three point four one

Plus one miss.

 

I walk the timer back to the scorekeeper(s), show the time and visually display number of misses.

 

And I stay there until the scorekeeper has acknowledged me and repeated the time and misses back to me.

 

Echo Meadows was writing down scores at a recent shoot, along with a second scorer recording times in ACES. Echo had already repeated back the score, but while the other scorer had entered it into the tablet, she had not repeated it back to me. As I was standing there, Echo nudged the other scorer and said, "you better repeat the score or we will never get rid of him".

 

While I was hurt that she wanted me gone so strongly, I was glad that my efforts to ensure everyone ends up on the same page had not gone unnoticed. And even then, from time to time mistakes get made, constant diligence is required. Cheats will require that diligence times 100.

 

One question: How often do you do TO duties? :D

 

Seems to me this is the absolute best way to ensure the score keeper has heard, seen and acknowledges the correct time and number of misses tabulated from polling the spotters. It removes any doubt about the TO accurately reporting times to the scorekeeper would have prevented this scandal in the USPSA world. Afterall, how to you forge the time on the timer itself?

 

It just makes good sense. It may slow a posse down a second or two, but if the scores aren't accurate then why are we competing?

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Afterall, how to you forge the time on the timer itself?

 

The timer can be manipulated both at the beginning and the end of a stage run.

 

TO's have to have integrity, of which I think most have.....especially those I have possed with before.

 

 

..........Widder

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"Doodieproject website closed" No they are still up and running. The members who finally got this info out, forced USPSA officials to finally acknowledge and deal with it. The USPSA officials initially took the stand that the people who were talking about the cheating, and naming the person responsible, that they were doing more harm to USPSA than the cheaters. Smokin Gator.

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When I run the timer...

At the completion of the run, before doing anything else, I immediately SHOW the shooter their time.

Then AS I am polling the spotters, I call out the time.

 

Twenty three point forty one

Spotters say one miss.

 

Then I repeat the time in numerical format.

Two three point four one

Plus one miss.

 

I walk the timer back to the scorekeeper(s), show the time and visually display number of misses.

 

And I stay there until the scorekeeper has acknowledged me and repeated the time and misses back to me.

 

Echo Meadows was writing down scores at a recent shoot, along with a second scorer recording times in ACES. Echo had already repeated back the score, but while the other scorer had entered it into the tablet, she had not repeated it back to me. As I was standing there, Echo nudged the other scorer and said, "you better repeat the score or we will never get rid of him".

 

While I was hurt that she wanted me gone so strongly, I was glad that my efforts to ensure everyone ends up on the same page had not gone unnoticed. And even then, from time to time mistakes get made, constant diligence is required. Cheats will require that diligence times 100.

+ 10000000000

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As much as we would like to think shooters don't cheat. They are out there.

 

 

And as much as we would love to believe that SASS shooters don't. They are out there also.

NOT MANY

 

P.S. Probably should not have posted this. But maybe they will see it and knock that stuff off.

It is important, I for one,,,, believe your post, you have nothing to gain from your comment (Cept for the truth to be known)

 

Many CAS FOLKS need to admit, it can and does happen to some degree in CAS, and address it fairly when it does

 

report it at EOT and I am sure they would look into stages remaining in the match

Their goal is to put on a fair world championship shoot, for the benefit of the whole of all shooters

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Hi folks,

 

I'm not one of the best shooters; but, I sure appreciate hearing the TO loudly call out the score and misses. I can do the happy dance, after setting my guns down, if I'm in the 30s and/or clean. :)

 

Best practice is as follows from the ROI p. 7. "...Timer Operator, declare “Range is Clear” and conveys the time to the Score Keeper in a loud, clear voice. K) The Timer Operator polls the three Spotters to determine the number of misses and solicits their input regarding any penalties; and then calls those numbers to the Score Keeper and the competitor in a loud, clear voice.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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He CALLED OUT times that were minus -1 to -3 seconds of what they actually were for friends and the ADDED time to whoever he saw fit/didn't like. That is the point of this app/program. It shows the TRUE time.

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Most of the videos are on the shooter. Does anyone know how the TO modified the times on the clock?

I could be wrong but I think he was just calling out the wrong time. I didn't see him show the timer to anybody.

 

Fillmore

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Hi Folks,

 

Now, about the serious issue, cheating. Unfortunately, it exists. I haven't seen much though. We had a couple (husband and wife) that were talked about, watched, and never talked to about it. I think folks were afraid of him. Finally, he got booted but not for cheating. I've mentioned him before. He always comes to mind when bad behavior is mentioned. It seems to me that confronting them about cheating might have saved a lot of grief.

 

Following are things they did that you should watch out for.

  • She would write down his time then change it to a better time. This was caught by the person doing scores who saw the mark out and called the PM.
  • She would time for him and put the sound receiver against her leg for the final shots. I was told this by someone who saw it when my posse walked by their posse. I believe him as there was no way this person beat our top shooter at the time, Quick Cal, by 40 seconds when Cal, who was on our posse, didn't have a train wreck.
  • When he was running the timer, his posse marshal got the worst time at the match on that stage. No way, PM was a good shooter. Cheater didn't call out the score and PM didn't see it until scores were published.
  • She would count for him and always had him clean then argue if anyone had a miss.

 

Like I wrote, I haven't seen much of this; but, I strongly believe it is best for all to bring it up before the cheater's ego gets so big he thinks he can get away with any type of bad behavior.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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I could be wrong but I think he was just calling out the wrong time. I didn't see him show the timer to anybody.

 

Fillmore

That's what it looked like to me too. But I couldn't believe that none of these shooters at a world or national level event wouldn't look at their times.

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He CALLED OUT times that were minus -1 to -3 seconds of what they actually were for friends and the ADDED time to whoever he saw fit/didn't like. That is the point of this app/program. It shows the TRUE time.

Uh Oh, I just remembered that there is a shooter who is referred to as "Adda Miss." Seems similar.

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Hi folks,

 

I'm not one of the best shooters; but, I sure appreciate hearing the TO loudly call out the score and misses. I can do the happy dance, after setting my guns down, if I'm in the 30s and/or clean. :)

 

Best practice is as follows from the ROI p. 7. "...Timer Operator, declare “Range is Clear” and conveys the time to the Score Keeper in a loud, clear voice. K) The Timer Operator polls the three Spotters to determine the number of misses and solicits their input regarding any penalties; and then calls those numbers to the Score Keeper and the competitor in a loud, clear voice.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

Have'n seen Mo's 'happy-dance'. All I can say is-YOU NEED TO. :D

She's got some 'moves'------ :P

LG

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