A question for you old Navy salts.

[Bad Hand]

You mean that the Navy would entrust a boat to a Lieutenant? Huh!

Probably not, since in the Navy, a "boat" is a submarine, however there are numerous smaller ships, that a LT (0-3) could command.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Probably not, since in the Navy, a "boat" is a submarine, however there are numerous smaller ships, that a LT (0-3) could command.

Actually boat is not necessarily a sub.....but a sub is a boat for sure.

http://hnsa.org/doc/boatcat/

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

And to add to this mess- CWO that wears both Navy and Marine uniforms.

LG

[Elk Creek LeMieux]

The thing I loved the most about the Navy was they had all their own terms, not all of which are obvious to dumb Army guys.

 

And when you say "repeat last" over the radio, the repeat themselves using the same term, no matter how many times you say "repeat last."

 

Then when you get to the boat. There's a dude wearing yellow waving his arms at you. But you don't have to listen to him. Unless he's giving this one signal. Or that other one. Then some dudes in blue run out to you. Then some dudes in purple with a dude in red. Then somebody has to go talk to the dude in white (without the red cross). If you get seasick, go find the dude in white, with the red cross.

 

Do not try to find the mess hall, er... galley, on your own. Once you find the galley, make sure you're wearing at least E-7 rank. This is not so that you get the good food (although that is a perk), this is so you won't get kicked out and spend the next 20 minutes finding the other chow hall, er... galley.

 

Do NOT spit on the deck. Trying to spit over the edge is ill advised as well.

 

Working around the Navy was very confusing for me.

[Old Scatterbrain]

Now you really want to get confused, check out Navy flag ranks, i.e. admirals. A "rear admiral" wears two stars, even though equivalent rank in the Army, Air Force and Marines (Brig. Gen.) only wear one. But, IIRC, the "rear admiral" designation is divided into two, RAdm. (lower half) and RAdm (upper half). Again, IIRC, there is a difference between upper-half and lower-half, but both wear 2 stars. A three-star is a Vice-Admiral, and four-star is simply Admiral. Five-stars is Fleet Admiral. What about a one-star flag officer? That's a "Commodore" and isn't used except during wartime, and maybe not at all nowadays. Any blue-water types out there to correct me?

A one-star admiral is Rear Admiral, Lower Half; two-star, Rear Admiral Upper Half. "Commodore" is a position, not a rank, which it once was. A Commodore position is usually filled by a Captain (0-6 bird type) or possibly a 1-star admiral.

 

Utah Bob, the navy used to have left-arm rates and right-arm rates. I don't recall the exact difference, but they all became left-arm only in the late fifities or early sixties.

 

Litl Red, US navy "blue" uniforms are, in fact, black and have been since the mid seventies. Only the dungarees, coveralls, the dickies-type uniform from the late nineties, and the current camouflage utility are actually blue.

[Old Scatterbrain]

And to add to this mess- CWO that wears both Navy and Marine uniforms.

LG

I don't know about that. Navy corpsemen serving with the fleet Marine force are authorized to wear Marine uniforms with navy insignia, but as far as I know, Marine warrants wear Marine uniforms and naval warrants wear navy uniforms.

 

The terms are used somewhat interchangeably but technically, the galley is wher food is prepared, and the mess deck is where food is served and eaten.

[Old Scatterbrain]

And I never thought navy rank to be confusing, but to this day I am unable to decipher AF rank. All that Senior Master Technical Sergeant First Class nonsense.

[Bad Hand]

Actually boat is not necessarily a sub.....but a sub is a boat for sure.

http://hnsa.org/doc/boatcat/

While that is true, for most "boats" the person in charge, usually a senior petty officer, is referred to as a "craft master" not a "Commanding Officer. The left arm/right arm rating badges used to tell the difference between "line" and "staff" (support personnel). For instance Signalmen, Bo'sn mates, Quartermasters, and Enginemen, were line, yeomen, disbursing clerks, cooks, were staff. I believe it was changed to all left arm in 1948.

[Bad Hand]

And to add to this mess- CWO that wears both Navy and Marine uniforms.

LG

This confusion may be due to the old Navy "Green" uniform that aviation officers and WOs were allowed to wear, along with brown shoes. It looked a lot like USMC green service uniform.

[Utah Bob #35998]

A one-star admiral is Rear Admiral, Lower Half; two-star, Rear Admiral Upper Half. "Commodore" is a position, not a rank, which it once was. A Commodore position is usually filled by a Captain (0-6 bird type) or possibly a 1-star admiral.

Utah Bob, the navy used to have left-arm rates and right-arm rates. I don't recall the exact difference, but they all became left-arm only in the late fifities or early sixties.

Litl Red, US navy "blue" uniforms are, in fact, black and have been since the mid seventies. Only the dungarees, coveralls, the dickies-type uniform from the late nineties, and the current camouflage utility are actually blue.

Huh? Black? Black? Like ze SS?

[Old Scatterbrain]

Huh? Black? Black? Like ze SS?

My favorite uniform was the "winter blue uniform". Black pants, black long-sleeved button shirt, black necktie... and that stupid white hat. But then they gave us black garrison caps! Awesome!

But yeah, a little fascistic. I preferred to think of it as "authoritarian".

[Utah Bob #35998]

My favorite uniform was the "winter blue uniform". Black pants, black long-sleeved button shirt, black necktie... and that stupid white hat. But then they gave us black garrison caps! Awesome!

But yeah, a little fascistic. I preferred to think of it as "authoritarian".

That's what IL Duce said. :D

I worked for a guy who had a fetish for black clothes. Always wore black suits. He wanted the department to change to an all black uniform and have black vehicles. In Florida! He managed to get the pants changed to black before he got fired.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

 

No enlisted personnel?

 

Who does all the work?

Civilians and the enlisteds of the other services.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

That's what IL Duce said. :D

I worked for a guy who had a fetish for black clothes. Always wore black suits. He wanted the department to change to an all black uniform and have black vehicles. In Florida! He managed to get the pants changed to black before he got fired.

I like the officers who wear dark uniforms and then stand in the shade to direct traffic.

[Old Scatterbrain]

Well the alternative was the summer white uniform- white pants, white short-sleeve button shirt. Derisively called "the milkman uniform" or "good humor", maybe a couple others along the same line. And all cotton, so no matter how much you starched and pressed them, after about 15 minutes of wear they looked like you had slept in them.

 

The SS were pretty much evil incarnate, but ya gotta admit they had some pretty schnazzy uniforms.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Civilians and the enlisteds of the other services.

I thought that was the Air Force.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Well the alternative was the summer white uniform- white pants, white short-sleeve button shirt. Derisively called "the milkman uniform" or "good humor", maybe a couple others along the same line. And all cotton, so no matter how much you starched and pressed them, after about 15 minutes of wear they looked like you had slept in them.

 

The SS were pretty much evil incarnate, but ya gotta admit they had some pretty schnazzy uniforms.

Starch? The young fellers these days have no idea what that is.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Starch? The young fellers these days have no idea what that is.

HAHAHAHAHA. I still have sore toes from trying to punch through the legs of my fatigues.

Looked like the winged crusader when we fell out for Reveille in the mornings.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Post laundry starched my boxers once. Not good.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Funny thing was, SSG Buxton looked the same, morning or night. The rest of us looked a little more "relaxed" by recall.

Perhaps the hot temperatures in Kansas had something to do with it.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Funny thing was, SSG Buxton looked the same, morning or night. The rest of us looked a little more "relaxed" by recall.

Perhaps the hot temperatures in Kansas had something to do with it.

Drill Sgts have been known to change uniforms several times in a day just to bamboozle recruits.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

It worked. We didn't think he had sweat glands.

 

Funny thing tho. I never did see him walk on water.........

[G #1840]

My brother-in-law was a doctor with the Public Health Service. He had a navy uniform and rank of Lt Commander, which seemed to irk his enlisted friends.

[Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life]

My brother-in-law was a doctor with the Public Health Service. He had a navy uniform and rank of Lt Commander, which seemed to irk his enlisted friends.

 

HIJACK ALERT:

 

Now Hear This

 

When I lived in Wichita Falls, Texas, the head of the city's public health unit was a retired Navy man. He had a weekly column in the newspaper called "The Rear Admiral." His name...Dr. Cox.

 

I'm not making this up.

 

That is all.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THE LOGIC OF THE GILLIGAN HAT. IT DOES NOT KEEP THE SUN OUT OF YOUR EYES. I SUPPOSE YOU COULD BAIL A SINKING LIFEBOAT WITH IT. IT'S TOO RIGID TO USE AS LASHINGS IF CUT UP FOR SUCH. I DON'T GET IT. I SUPPOSE YOU COULD EAT FROM IT.

 

Sorry to shout. Just a trait of the ignorant and obnoxious.

[Old Scatterbrain]

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THE LOGIC OF THE GILLIGAN HAT.

You better have a seat, cuz it might be a bit of a wait.

[Utah Bob #35998]

My brother-in-law was a doctor with the Public Health Service. He had a navy uniform and rank of Lt Commander, which seemed to irk his enlisted friends.

USPHS

[Bad Hand]

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THE LOGIC OF THE GILLIGAN HAT. IT DOES NOT KEEP THE SUN OUT OF YOUR EYES. I SUPPOSE YOU COULD BAIL A SINKING LIFEBOAT WITH IT. IT'S TOO RIGID TO USE AS LASHINGS IF CUT UP FOR SUCH. I DON'T GET IT. I SUPPOSE YOU COULD EAT FROM IT.

 

Sorry to shout. Just a trait of the ignorant and obnoxious.

If by "Gilligan Hat", you mean what we called "Dixie Cup", it could be used as an emergency flotation device. Just as the "bell bottom" trousers were designed that way so you could kick them free easier if you went over the side.

[Captain Bill Burt]

Top pic is an officer - Commander (CDR) O-5.

 

Edit to add: you can also tell he is a submariner by the two breast insignia he is wearing.

 

Lower pic is an officer - Lieutenant (LT) O-3.

 

Edit to add: a Surface Warfare Office (SWO) based on his breast insignia.

Not only is he a submariner, he's a boomer, the true elite of the fleet.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

USPHS

For New Hampshire: A dentist in the state prison system and a nurse at the ship yard.

[Chief Rick]

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THE LOGIC OF THE GILLIGAN HAT. IT DOES NOT KEEP THE SUN OUT OF YOUR EYES. I SUPPOSE YOU COULD BAIL A SINKING LIFEBOAT WITH IT. IT'S TOO RIGID TO USE AS LASHINGS IF CUT UP FOR SUCH. I DON'T GET IT. I SUPPOSE YOU COULD EAT FROM IT.

 

Sorry to shout. Just a trait of the ignorant and obnoxious.

Cut & Paste from HERE:

 

It can be squared, rolled, crushed, fitted with "gull wings" or simply worn as it comes from small stores. It can be used as a flotation device or a sun shield or even, some claim, as a dog food dish. With its many shapes and uses, it may be the most versatile article of clothing a Navy enlisted man wears.

According to Naval Historian John Reilly, "The 'dixie cup'-style hat has appeared and reappeared in the Navy as part of the uniform since it was first written into the uniform regulations of 1886."

That year, the white canvas hat became the replacement for the straw hat previously worn during the warm weather months. The Navy needed a practical summer hat that was easy to clean and stow, cheap to manufacture and comfortable to wear. During the winter, sailors continued to wear a flat, black hat.

Current Navy uniform regulations say the hat must be worn "with the lower front edge approximately one-half inch above the eyebrows and not crushed or bent in the middle." That leaves a lot of possibilities.

By reshaping the white hat or "dixie cup" to suit their personal style, enlisted sailors have been able, for more than 100 years, to express some measure of individuality in a uniform world.

Uniform regulations may technically forbid such stylistic reshaping, but few sailors can resist.

"When I first put the white hat on, it felt like a bowl sitting on top of my head," said Data Processor 1st Class Eddie Hawes of Navy Headquarters Information Center, Washington, D.C. "I thought, 'There must be something I could do to change it.' The way I put crimps in it made it different from anyone else's."

The tradition of personalizing the white hat hasn't changed much in more than 25 years, according to Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy, Avionics Technician Master Chief (AW) Duane R. Bushey. "The white hat is like putty - you can mold different characters out of it," he said. "I wanted my hat to be completely round. I wanted it to droop a bit, so I'd roll it down halfway to loosen it up."

Master Chief Hospital Corpsman Jerry Robinson, Command Master Chief at Bethesda Naval Medical Center, recalled how he wore his white hat. "I rolled the top quarter edge. It would flare out and have a flat edge to it. It took a lot of time and care to keep it that way."

Most sailors usually find it hard work to get their white hats just exactly the way they like them.

"Although I have six hats, I only wear the one I've been working on," said Yeoman 2nd Class Jerry Bradley, a Vice Chief of Naval Operations staff yeoman in Washington, D.C. "It's softened up and fits better," he said. "I get attached to one hat at a time."

There may be many different ways to wear a white hat, but there are just as many different nicknames - "squid lid," "dog dish" and "Mason jar top" - these and many other terms have been handed down over the decades. Aviation Electronics Technician Airman Apprentice Doug Paige of Naval Air Station Oceana, Va., remembers why his white hat was called a "dog dish."

"When I was in 'A' school, every time I went to the EM [Enlisted Men's] club I had to watch out for Marines. They would steal any sailor's hat - said they used it as a dish to feed their mascot," said Paige. "I had to buy nine hats while I was there!"

But despite the unflattering nicknames and occasional abuse, the white hat has gained high status over the generations - it has become a symbol of the Navy. The dixie cup is so recognizable that Hollywood uses it as a prop in movie scenes shot in train stations, bus stations and airports.

"The Navy's white hat is much more easily identified than other military uniforms," said CAPT Michael Sherman, Director of Navy Office of Information, Los Angeles, noting that sailors are synonymous with travel and white hats are synonymous with sailors. "People expect to see them in areas of transit," he said.

The dixie cup has been so reliable that it was phased out only once this century. July 1, 1973, marked the beginning in of some major Navy uniform changes. The results of a Navy-wide study, begun in December 1970, indicated that most sailors wanted a change in their uniforms. The white hat was given up for lost when it was replaced by a CPO [Chief Petty Officer] type hat known as a "combination cover."

But the combination hat was never completely accepted by personnel E-6 and below. Yeoman 1st Class Pete Martinez, currently assigned to the Assistant Secretary for Organizational Matters and Administrative Services, Washington, D.C., remembers when he joined the Navy in 1975 and the mixed feelings he had about not wearing the white hat.

"I had always pictured the typical sailor looking like the poster than had the old 'salty' sailor on it. The white hat looked sharp," said Martinez. "I didn't like it when I was issued the combo cover."

The MCPON [Master Chief Petty officer of the Navy] remembers that ambiguity. "Most sailors wanted a uniform change," added Bushey, "and I felt that way too, but I also felt awkward wearing the combination cover as an E-6. The novelty of it wore off in two or three months - I missed my white hat."

Everybody missed it. According to Robinson, "The public probably had a harder time accepting the change than the sailors. They were used to seeing the sailor on a 'Cracker Jack' box."

There was another problem. Ships weren't prepared to provide enough storage space for the combination covers. "The only extra space the Navy added for the new uniforms were a few peacoat lockers they installed on board ships," said Robinson. "One of the 'gifts' sailors E-6 and below had was the extra space they had when they were wearing white hats and 'cracker jack' uniforms. I could probably store half a dozen or so white hats to every one combination cover."

Bushey agreed, "It's much harder to store a combination cover than it is to store the white hat. The combination cover gets crunched or flattened out," he said, "but the white hat never loses its shape."

There are public relations advantages to the dixie cups, too. "After the white hats were phased back in," recalled Bushey, who was a chief at the time, "I was standing in the San Francisco airport, in uniform. A civilian approached me and said, 'I just want to tell you how sharp the sailors look today.' He had watched the transition from the white hats to the combination covers and back again and was glad to see a sailor 'look like a sailor, again.'"

Everyone agrees that white hats look sharp; the question - today, as it has been for decades - is how to keep them that way.

Keeping the white hat white is important to sailors. The tricks sailors use to clean their dixie cups are as individual and varied as the shape of the hat.

"If my hats get minor stains," said Bradley, "I soak them in bleach and run a toothbrush over the spots. You're supposed to brush with the grain so the hat doesn't fray. Then I throw them in the washing machine with my whites and put them in the dryer."

It wasn't always that easy to clean the white hat. Sailors in boot camp in the '60s learned a different technique to keep their dixie cups in "sat" condition for inspection.

Bushey recalled, "I went to boot camp in San Diego in 1962. We would really scrub hard with a scrub brush, a toothbrush and Wisk to get the ring out of the inside. Then, we would attach a 'tie-tie' to the tag. Once attached, we would dip the hats in the toilet and flush." (A tie-tie is a piece of cord with metal tabs on each end that the Navy issued to sailors to hang their laundry).

But if cleaning efforts required by the white hats are high, at least replacement costs are low. If a captain's hat and a sailor's white hat are both blown overboard, the captain has to pay over $40 to replace his hat, while the sailor is back in business for $2.60.

Approximately 140,000 white hats are made each month for the Defense Personnel Support Center. The hats are then stored in defense depots in Mechanicsburg, Pa.; Memphis, Tenn.; Ogden, Utah and Tracy, Calif. The hats remain in the depots until DPSC [Defense Personnel Support Center] distributes them to uniform shops throughout the Navy.

It may surprise some to learn that such an American symbol as the Navy white hat isn't made in the United States. Mayaguez, Puerto Rico, is the home of Propper International, Inc., the company that has been making white hats for the DPSC for the last 10 years.

Seventy-five rows of stitching keep the brim of the dixie cup stiff. The brims are made on an automatic brim stitcher and the crown is put together on a sewing machine. When the two parts are completed they are stitched together using the sewing machine. The three-part operation takes about seven and a half minutes.

Something assembled so quickly nonetheless has proven to be very durable in popularity.

The white hat has remained a popular item with the civilian public. "I constantly get requests for white hats because they are unique to the U.S. Navy," said Bradley. "Some people even steal them out of my car."

"Traditionally, the white hat means a lot," said Bushey. "When the ship left the pier, we used to roll our hats and throw them to our girlfriends or wives. It was our way of leaving a part of ourselves behind."

Whether squared, rolled or worn with a stiff brim, the white hat gives American sailors their special individuality worldwide. "To me," Bradley said, "the white hat is a symbol of the Navy and it's always going to be."

Source: Hensgen, Marke A. "To Cap It All Off … A Fond Look at a Navy Trademark: Uses (and Abuses) of the 'Dixie Cup.'" All Hands860 (November 1988): 33-35.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Fotation device. Har! Maybe for a hampster.

[Captain Bill Burt]

Fotation device. Har! Maybe for a hampster.

Pretty much exactly what I thought when they told me that in basic. A more worthless cover than the Dixie has never been invented.

 

In second place are the thirteen buttons on the flap of Crackerjacks. You do not want to enjoy a long night at the enlisted club followed by struggling to unbutton all those babies before your will power gives out. Having said that, Crackerjacks are a great looking uniform, girls love em.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

If by "Gilligan Hat", you mean what we called "Dixie Cup", it could be used as an emergency flotation device. Just as the "bell bottom" trousers were designed that way so you could kick them free easier if you went over the side.

A flotation device?

ok the pants I get. We learned that in boy scouts.

[Barry Sloe]

 

Ratings.

Pay grades. Ratings are what your specialty is/was: engineman, radioman, etc.

 

The Commodore rank comes and goes. The Captain (full bird) that commissioned me was promoted to Commodore, but that was in the 90s. I don't know if Commodore is still around or if they've gone back to Rear Admiral upper & lower half, as previously noted.

 

Coming up on 20 years retirement. Times have changed!

Barry Sloe