Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Okay, here is one of my former shirts (I can visualize a similar man's shirt). Those are silver-rimmed buttons. They look just like snaps. Also, the smiley pockets are fake, just embroidery on the surface. Would you want it excluded because it has buttons instead of snaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Also, there is a lot of emphasis on the shirt/blouse/bodice. Would the following costume be excluded if it had a plain shirt? http://www.focusonstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/roy-dale-12.jpg Or, would you exclude my costume in post 155 http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=223616&p=2902465 if worn with a plain shirt (assuming appropriate boots)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Me again... My point, and I don't think Ace or Skye would disagree, is that this category needs a rewrite in the costume portion. Currently, there are bad feelings over people not meeting the "flashy and fancy" part or over not meeting the other specifics. I hate seeing this controversy and would like people to be able to apply for any category with some certainty that they are following the rules. Someone asked me if, because I thought a costume was inappropriate, I thought a specific person was cheating. My answer about that person is, definitely not. I believe that the current controversies over these rules are most likely not the result of flaunting them or cheating, rather it is an issue that the rules are not clear. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 When you write the exceptions for women put the buttons in. But the second half of that rule has to remain in place. I would say that black shirt meets all requirements. Amend the current rules to get rid of the drab...... THEN add in dresses and that specification for the ladies. You run into a big problem when you combine them. Women, if you haven't noticed, are built different. Men - Must wear this.............. Women can substitute ................. Here is my suggested rules with changes: ”B” WESTERN CATEGORY The “B” Western Category has unique clothing, firearms, and shooting requirements. The RO should be familiar with the following requirements: All costumes are expected to be fancy and flashy. The B–Western costuming must be worn during the entire match and awards ceremony with exception of evening formal occasions. Revolvers: All SASS–legal revolvers are allowed. Rifles: Any SASS–legal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning Rifle, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin). Shotguns: Any Sass legal Double barrel shotgun. Ammunition: All SASS–legal ammunition is allowed Leather: Buscadero holster rigs or drop holster rigs. (All of the revolvers must be carried below the top of the gun belt.) All belt and holster rigs must be embellished (fancy stitching, conchos, spots, or tooling). All holsters must be of the “double strong side” type. No cross-draw, shoulder rigs, or butt forward configurations allowed. Shooting style: Any SASS–legal shooting style may be used at any time, including Gunfighter. Clothing: Men -Shirts must be of the B–Western style with snap buttons and any of the following: “smiley pockets,” embroidery, appliqués, fringe, or different colored yokes. Shield shirts are also allowed if they have piping or embroidery. Pants must be full length jeans, ranch pants, or pants with flap over the rear pocket, keystone belt loops, and/or piping or fringe. Pants must be worn with a belt. Suspenders are not allowed on pants or gun belt. Felt Cowboy style hats only, no straw,or palm leaf hats. Hats must be worn. Boots are required and must be of traditional design with fancy stitching or multi-color fancy design with non-grip enhancing (i.e. “NO Lug”) soles. Lace-up boots and moccasins are not allowed. Western spurs with rowels and spur straps are required for men. Rowels must be at least the size of a quarter. Clothing: Women – Shirt, pant, boot, and hat requirements are the same as men except: Women may wear skirts or split skirts instead of pants. Women may also wear dresses if the bodice of the dress has : “smiley pockets,” embroidery, appliqués, fringe, or different colored yokes. Shield bodices are also allowed if they have piping or embroidery. Dresses must have a defined waistline and may have zippers or button closures in the side or rear. Both men and women must choose at least one or more of the following optional items: gloves or gauntlets, scarves with slides or tied around the neck or bolo tie, coat, vest, chaps, or cuffs. Also, costumes that depict leading role characters in B–Western movies are allowed as long as the costume is complete with all accessories, but the costuming must still adhere to the boot, leather, spur, hat, and firearm requirements above. John Wayne, spaghetti western, and town persons characters are not acceptable. Failure to comply will result in a penalty for not adhering to category guidelines. The first offense is a procedure, the second offense in the same match is a stage disqualification, and the third offense in the same match is a match disqualification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevada Skye, SASS #54791 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I could live with that ruling, but I wouldn't mind adding: Women may also wear dresses if the bodice of the dress has : a defined waist, “smiley pockets,” embroidery, appliqués, fringe, or different colored yokes. Shield bodices are also allowed if they have piping or embroidery. The dress may also have buttons or zippers. And, of course, leave the shotguns alone. Thank you very much!!!!! I have a couple of shirts I would have to either change the buttons or not wear them, okay with me. Man....I hate putting snaps on clothing.....................lol!!!!!! Allie, I absolutely love the outfit with the steer skulls on it. It has been the inspiration for some of my costumes. OF course, you look good in all your costumes. I know of several ladies who, when not quite wearing the correct clothing or accessories or boots, simply shoot in a different category. Wrong boots because I dropped a bottle of Irish Cream on my foot and couldn't get the pull-on boots on, I shot L49r, just like Allie did when she did not have correct boots. I know of a National Champ who shoots in a different category if she wants to wear a straw hat because it is too hot for felt. Plenty of choices out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevada Skye, SASS #54791 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I just ordered this book on Western Shirts, it looks very interesting. http://www.amazon.com/Western-Shirts-Classic-American-Fashion/dp/1586852485 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 As Charlie Brown wud say,,,,, GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is enough to make sure NO one shoots BW!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Annie SASS #37063 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Cheyenne Culpepper has it right. A new shooter would be crazy to take this on. Not a very good way to grow an "underpopulated" category or SASS either. I know there are several ladies shooting it in other parts of the country but not so much up here. I see it as a sad day in SASS history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevada Skye, SASS #54791 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 There is actually very little change in the rule proposed above, except adding dresses and saying what they need to look like, and adding the snaps (and or buttons) to the shirt requirement, and adding "Cowboy" type felt hats, which pretty much everyone does anyway. And I have certainly NEVER seen a cowboy wear shorts at a shoot!!!!!!! I suppose it could happen............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 As Charlie Brown wud say,,,,, GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is enough to make sure NO one shoots BW!! +1 This started with just adding dresses to the mix. But dang. Now you all want them to totally rewrite the whole dang thing. SHEEEESSSSEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Hi Al, As I see it, the rule needs a re-write. As currently written, it excludes any of the skirt and vest outfits if the (hidden) shirt did not meet the criteria. I do not think that is the intent of the category. Some men cannot hold their pants up without suspenders. What would be the harm of allowing them if they are hidden by a fancy vest. I'm not saying this is a must. It is just something to consider. There are other controversies that need addressing. I think that the rule could be rewritten so that people know exactly what is allowed and put an end to the controversies surrounding certain types of costumes. How can that be a negative? Regards, Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Hi Al, As I see it, the rule needs a re-write. As currently written, it excludes shirts like my black one because it has buttons instead of snaps... ...cut for length... Regards, Allie Can you quote the current rule that excludes your embroidered, black shirt with buttons as being a legal shirt for b western? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Oops sorry, I missed the "or" in reading the following " Costuming: Shirts must be of the “B” Western style with snap buttons or any of the following." However, some people have complained about not meeting the flashy and fancy and that right there seems to allow snap-closure shirts without any of the "following" fancy stuff. Regards, Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 PS Here is a store's photo of one of those shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 AND THAT IS PERFECTLY LEGAL!! if I were a moderator I would LOCK this thread!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Okay it's done. Seems some people can't have a polite discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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